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Your history is incorrect. Women (legally) were not "on an equal footing with men basically since the country was formed." When the US Congress adopted amendments to the Constitution to end slavery and provide justice to former slaves the 14th Amendment was passed in 1868 and guaranteed all "persons" the right to "equal protection under the law." However, the second section of the amendment used the words "male citizens," in describing who would be counted in determining how many representatives each state gets in Congress. This was the first time the Constitution said point blank that women were excluded. Similarly, the 15th Amendment in 1870 extended voting rights to all men -- but not to any women. It took until 1920 and the 19th amendment for women to get the vote and even as late as 1961 the SUPREME court upheld Florida's law that prevented women from serving on a jury. Equality under the law? Naw.


Since you have experience with housework and raising children while working a job (multi-tasking) your contempt for women and dismissal of their enormous contribution to society is even more astounding.

I really don't get your "reduced to that role" and "the least I can do is take care of the housework and gardens" comments at all. Clearly you consider the work demeaning and that you are doing it as a favour - the least you can do? Odd again since if you are doing those duties properly then you know how much work it takes even without kids at home. I guess we are from different "stock". My entire family and my husband's believe that marriage is 100%, 100%. We all do it all. When you have kids it is the same deal. Each parent is 100% and 100% responsible. Never is it a question of "or"
The fifteenth amendment did not give voting rights to any man...nor did it deny the right to vote to any woman, it only prevented voting rights to be denied to any citizen due to their race, color or previous condition of servitude. "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." The key word here is "citizen" which was plainly clarified in the 14th.... "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States"

Hence, constitutionally women had ever bit as much a right to vote as men with the passage f the 14th and 15th amendments. They actually had it with the adoption of the Constitution but by the mid 19th century it was unmistakably clear.

My contempt for women?!?!? :hysterical: I have no contempt for most women... I think most are marvelous lovely creatures who happen to be vastly superior to their male counterparts! There are those few here an there that can be a pain in the neck.. but mostly women are my very favorite people. My Yvonne especially.

I do not feel house work is menial nor degrading either.. just easy.
 

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The 14th and 15th amendments were passed in the 19th Century but women were not allowed to vote legally until the 20th century so they were not equal under the law.

Just out of curiousity - since you can do housework and find it easy (obviously the light housework of which you mentioned) and can garden why are you no longer able to work outside the home? By "no longer able" I presume you mean not by choice?
 

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LOL! Very Funny!

I love men (won the lottery when I met my husband of 35 years) and certainly don't consider reaching levels of equality with them as being a step backwards. Rather an up lifting. Simple things like the right to vote, to attend school, to be considered a person under the law, to not be sold as property, to own property, equal pay for equal work and to have dominion over our own bodies and a right to our own children are often taken for granted by men because they have always had them. Today a father can look at his daughter and know that she will have rights, independence and freedom. Sadly more than half the women on the planet still don't have any rights or freedoms.
1. Women have had the franchise in the U.S. for almost 100 years. Your point?

2. Women have always been considered a person under the law, at least in this country.

3. Not to be sold as property? Took care of that one with the Emancipation Proclamation...and it included men, too.

4. Dominion over your own bodies? Code word for abortion rights, the anytime type. Granting one the right to kill, I suppose...I'm not sure that is actually an advancement.

5. A right to our own children? Gee, sounds like you made 'em all by yourself. Down in my part of the swamp, it takes both male and female, but I guess things change...no woman is automatically a good mother just because she birthed a child. Most children are better off with their mother, but that is not always the case.

6. Half the world's women don't live in freedom? I submit that a large portion of them would spit in freedom's eye for decent medical care and enough to eat.
 

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The 14th and 15th amendments were passed in the 19th Century but women were not allowed to vote legally until the 20th century so they were not equal under the law.

Just out of curiousity - since you can do housework and find it easy (obviously the light housework of which you mentioned) and can garden why are you no longer able to work outside the home? By "no longer able" I presume you mean not by choice?
Women had the right to vote all along... constitutionally... which is the highest law in our great nation...It says so, right there in article 6... It does seem a pity that states and even the federal government cant quite seem to bring themselves to obey it.

I am a cancer survivor... but the treatments did not treat me kindly... I lost my voice almost completely with damage from the radiation, and the chemo affected my short term memory and ability to work with numbers accurately. That pretty much ended my career as a real estate sales agent. That coupled with chronic atrial fibrillation that creates severe problems when it comes to very much physical activity at all. Its amazing how much we depend on adequate normal blood flow! Without plenty of oxygen to the muscles we become very weak very quickly.
 

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The 14th and 15th amendments were passed in the 19th Century but women were not allowed to vote legally until the 20th century so they were not equal under the law.

Just out of curiousity - since you can do housework and find it easy (obviously the light housework of which you mentioned) and can garden why are you no longer able to work outside the home? By "no longer able" I presume you mean not by choice?
Okay, so we have established that woman's suffrage was granted in 1920 which makes you at least 91 years old so I am trying to take your age into account but your last comment about someones disability was not only rude and uncalled for, it shows me your no better than someone who thinks gays can just decide to not be gay "by choice".

But you did clearly demonstrate one of the reasons some people are uneasy with the original topic. I dont think gays should suffer discrimination because they are gay just like I dont think women should suffer discrimination because they are female; but if they have to scream at me about being gay or being female all the time and constantly proclaim their sexual orientation or gender its obnoxious.

I have found that most men who feel the need to proclaim how manly they are, most women who have to proclaim how equal they are, and people who have to constantly proclaim that whatever their particular sexual identity is is normal usually have underlying issues. People who actually know those things about themselves dont feel the need to remind everyone else; they dont have to.
 

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See how ridiculous that sounds?
Yes, I do. I hate gays, bi's, and asexuals as well. I hate blacks, tans, yellows, and whites. I hate people in general.

Ok ok, I'm just in a bad mood. Hate is an active thing so I don't bother to hate much. Child molesters I suppose, that's a group I can hate pretty well.
 

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Okay, so we have established that woman's suffrage was granted in 1920 which makes you at least 91 years old so I am trying to take your age into account but your last comment about someones disability was not only rude and uncalled for, it shows me your no better than someone who thinks gays can just decide to not be gay "by choice".

But you did clearly demonstrate one of the reasons some people are uneasy with the original topic. I dont think gays should suffer discrimination because they are gay just like I dont think women should suffer discrimination because they are female; but if they have to scream at me about being gay or being female all the time and constantly proclaim their sexual orientation or gender its obnoxious.

I have found that most men who feel the need to proclaim how manly they are, most women who have to proclaim how equal they are, and people who have to constantly proclaim that whatever their particular sexual identity is is normal usually have underlying issues. People who actually know those things about themselves dont feel the need to remind everyone else; they dont have to.
Awesome post! :bow:
 

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Women had the right to vote all along... constitutionally... which is the highest law in our great nation...It says so, right there in article 6... It does seem a pity that states and even the federal government cant quite seem to bring themselves to obey it.

I am a cancer survivor... but the treatments did not treat me kindly... I lost my voice almost completely with damage from the radiation, and the chemo affected my short term memory and ability to work with numbers accurately. That pretty much ended my career as a real estate sales agent. That coupled with chronic atrial fibrillation that creates severe problems when it comes to very much physical activity at all. Its amazing how much we depend on adequate normal blood flow! Without plenty of oxygen to the muscles we become very weak very quickly.
Having something guaranteed by the Constitution is only valid when it is applied. Equality was guaranteed to African Americans and it took a century to happen. So any way you slice it having the constitutional right to vote means nothing if you don't have the legal right to vote.

Me too. Cancer is no fun. Very sorry about the voice loss. I lost my sight and hearing for over 4 months as a result of the chemo. Numerical referencing is still good so I am able to continue my business - thankfully since it is all numbers. The loss of anything to do with communication is something that is very, very difficult. We tend to take all of that for granted. But you write very, very well - like an author.
 

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Okay, so we have established that woman's suffrage was granted in 1920 which makes you at least 91 years old so I am trying to take your age into account but your last comment about someones disability was not only rude and uncalled for, it shows me your no better than someone who thinks gays can just decide to not be gay "by choice".

But you did clearly demonstrate one of the reasons some people are uneasy with the original topic. I dont think gays should suffer discrimination because they are gay just like I dont think women should suffer discrimination because they are female; but if they have to scream at me about being gay or being female all the time and constantly proclaim their sexual orientation or gender its obnoxious.

I have found that most men who feel the need to proclaim how manly they are, most women who have to proclaim how equal they are, and people who have to constantly proclaim that whatever their particular sexual identity is is normal usually have underlying issues. People who actually know those things about themselves dont feel the need to remind everyone else; they dont have to.
What disability? I asked a simple question out of curiousity, not malice because I did not know to what he was refering until I just read his post this morning. Assume and judge much?
 

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Having something guaranteed by the Constitution is only valid when it is applied. Equality was guaranteed to African Americans and it took a century to happen. So any way you slice it having the constitutional right to vote means nothing if you don't have the legal right to vote.
Yer right about the law.. having a law does little or no good if it cannot be enforced. That being said there were very few women willing to force the states to obey the law regarding voting rights for a very long time. The right to vote however had little to do with their ability to run the show from behind the scenes. :) The same Constitution that granted women.... and men their rights should guarantee gays the right of matrimony to the person of their choice. However I have not heard of an effort to take a case to the supreme court who could then enforce the Constitution and insure their right to do so not be violated in the future. According to the Supreme law... no person/citizen can be denied the rights and privileges enjoyed by all other citizens. IE.... if Jane has the right to marry Bob.... Joe should have the same right... as long as its ok with Bob of course. :)
 

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Me too. Cancer is no fun. Very sorry about the voice loss. I lost my sight and hearing for over 4 months as a result of the chemo. Numerical referencing is still good so I am able to continue my business - thankfully since it is all numbers. The loss of anything to do with communication is something that is very, very difficult. We tend to take all of that for granted. But you write very, very well - like an author.
Thanks... I am certainly no author, but I do try to be as clear as possible with my posts, and btw, I was not in the least bit offended by your question as to my disability. I thought it was a perfectly legitimate question, especially as I have seldom mentioned those issues in the forum and you had no way to know unless you had caught one of those few instances. :)
 

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Salmonslayer wrote "I have found that most men who feel the need to proclaim how manly they are, most women who have to proclaim how equal they are, and people who have to constantly proclaim that whatever their particular sexual identity is is normal usually have underlying issues. People who actually know those things about themselves dont feel the need to remind everyone else; they dont have to."

I would add that men who constantly belittle, blame and whine about women and how easy they have it and how unfair life is to men now that women have taken control of their lives are not very strong and definitely insecure. Men who are comfortable in themselves are not threatened by the changing world but rather challenged by it.
 

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Salmonslayer wrote "I have found that most men who feel the need to proclaim how manly they are, most women who have to proclaim how equal they are, and people who have to constantly proclaim that whatever their particular sexual identity is is normal usually have underlying issues. People who actually know those things about themselves dont feel the need to remind everyone else; they dont have to."

I would add that men who constantly belittle, blame and whine about women and how easy they have it and how unfair life is to men now that women have taken control of their lives are not very strong and definitely insecure. Men who are comfortable in themselves are not threatened by the changing world but rather challenged by it.
Interesting.. I havent met any men who fit that description yet... but if I do I will certainly keep this in mind. It does seem quite reasonable. :)
 

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"It does seem quite reasonable."

Straw Men usually do. :icecream:
 

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Salmonslayer wrote "I have found that most men who feel the need to proclaim how manly they are, most women who have to proclaim how equal they are, and people who have to constantly proclaim that whatever their particular sexual identity is is normal usually have underlying issues. People who actually know those things about themselves dont feel the need to remind everyone else; they dont have to."

I would add that men who constantly belittle, blame and whine about women and how easy they have it and how unfair life is to men now that women have taken control of their lives are not very strong and definitely insecure. Men who are comfortable in themselves are not threatened by the changing world but rather challenged by it.
Now that we can agree on. My wife is the most intelligent and competent person I have ever known and I not only see her as an equal, I am amazed she has accomplished so much. We share our lives and that includes housework, she works on the equipment with me, her retirement is very good and combined with mine allows us a certain comfort neither of us could have alone....The only thing I ever question is her judgement...she picked me for a spouse. ;)
 

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This is the part of the whole feminista agenda that amuses me. They like to say things like "until the 1920s women had no choice, no rights, blah blah blah". What they neglect to mention is that men didn't have it any better. If your Dad was a farmer you became a farmer. If your Dad was a miner you became a miner. If your Dad was a banker you became a banker.

At one point in our history the only choices for a career minded woman was to become either a teacher, or a nurse. During those times the US had the best educated children in the world and the best health care system in the world.

You can argue all you want about what women have gained, but you cannot deny what we all have lost.
 

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Until women got the vote (1919 but not ratified until 1920) they had no say in who formed the government or the judiciary therefore they had no say in the laws that were passed. That is not freedom or equality.

"What they neglect to mention is that men didn't have it any better. If your Dad was a farmer you became a farmer. If your Dad was a miner you became a miner. If your Dad was a banker you became a banker. "

One name (but there are millions, most not famous) springs to mind to argue this point - Abraham Lincoln - his father was a pioneer farmer. Lincoln became a lawyer and then President.

Those who strive for change make change.
 

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Okay, so we have established that woman's suffrage was granted in 1920 .
Actually women had the right to vote in Utah before it even became a territory. That right was removed however, in 1887, by Congress with the Edmunds–Tucker Act, which was designed to weaken the Mormons politically and punish them for polygamy.The Mormons dropped the polygamy requirement in 1890 and in 1895 Utah adopted a constitution restoring the right of woman suffrage. Congress admitted Utah as a state with that constitution in 1896.wikipedia
 

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Discussion Starter #80
At one point in our history the only choices for a career minded woman was to become either a teacher, or a nurse. During those times the US had the best educated children in the world and the best health care system in the world.
Sounds great UNLESS you happened to be a woman who wanted to be something other than a teacher, nurse, or wife/mother! :(
 
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