dishonest 4-Her

Discussion in 'Goats' started by prairiecomforts, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. prairiecomforts

    prairiecomforts Well-Known Member

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    Here's the deal. Today was the first day of our county 4H achievement days. There is a little girl who is my sons age (12) who also shows dairy goats. Well - i went to look at the kids' displays this afternoon and pick up this little girl's record book (which they leave on display after the goat interviews )and I read it. You see last fall she brought her 4 does to my place to have them breed by my buck and I wanted to see if she had pictures of the kids. Well - I noticed she has a completely different goat listed as the sire to those kids that I KNOW came from my buck. I do a lot of my networking with other families at the fair and I am a little upset that she has not been honest in her records. I don't know if I should take her aside and question her about it - or if I should keep my mouth shut. I am very disappointed that she in effect lied on her record book. Not quite sure how I should deal with this.
     
  2. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

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    is this other buck that she claims she bred her goats to of the UPPER CLASS so to speak and is she planning on papering or selling these kids under that lie? if she is i would make some effort to get to the bottom of it, chances are her parrents are just as dishonest as most parrents have a good hands on working knolage of their kids in 4H so especially if you had proof that they came to your farm to breed these does to your buck, like a recipt you can make more head way rather than just saying "HEY YOU LIED" although that is what would be MY first thought
     

  3. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This kid needs to be made accountable for her actions, especially if she plans to register the kids with ADGA. 4H is the place kids need to learn good herdsmanship. I would say that if she is not willing to be honest, I would not let her use your buck in the future.
     
  4. trob1

    trob1 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt jump to accuse. I would pull her aside and ask her if her does had a problem and didnt settle with your buck. Or I would ask her if she made a mistake in her record keeping and put someone elses buck down as the sire to her does kids. This does need to be addressed but go at it with kid gloves on and give her the chance to explain or correct her mistake after all we are talking about a child not an adult right.
     
  5. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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  6. tallpines

    tallpines Well-Known Member

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    It happens!

    I've known of mother's who visited the florist the day before the fair----just to buy a pretty violet full of blossoms for her daughter to show.

    And another mother who bought beautiful green peppers at the farmers market for her child to show.

    Photography was another area where there was dishonesty on who the actual photographer was.


    Most judges that we dealt with refused to get involved----(probably afraid of a law suit).

    They were there to judge what they were seeing on that day-----

    About all the 4-H agent could do is put emphasis on being HONEST---but didn't dare risk making a challenge againt a parent who was in on the dishonest act.

    It breaks your heart to know how hard your own child worked on their project--------yet the "cheaters" get rewarded with the blue ribbons.
     
  7. prairiecomforts

    prairiecomforts Well-Known Member

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    Well - I know that my buck is a sire to these kids, because we had them ultrasounded to make sure that they had settled before she came to pick them up. And I provided them with service memos so she could get the kids registered. I am going to make a point of visiting with her mom tomorrow and will just give her a chance to explain.
     
  8. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    Prairie, is there a reason she would substitute another buck? Is he more acclaimed or renowned? Not to downgrade your buck, certainly, but if this is so there must be some motivation for this. Is there any way it simply could be a mistake of recording in the book? Does this record book show actual copies of the reg. papers or is it merely a name jotted down? If it were me I would definitely get a hold of mom and mention you noticed this and thought it must be an error. If not, then she's got some "splainin'" to do. That really sucks if it is deliberate and hardly what 4-H should stand for. Please let us know what happens and I do hope it's merely some mistake.
     
  9. brierpatch1974

    brierpatch1974 Well-Known Member

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    Well always a chance of being an honest mistake. Myabe your buck didn't breed then again maybe there is a cheat out there. It wouldn't be the first time.if If she plans to register the kids with ADGA I hope she knows it is very illegal to false register any animal not just goats. Very large fines out there for people who get cuaght and if they do enough cases like dog breeders and horses then jail time not out of the question either.

    BP
     
  10. xoxoGOATSxoxo

    xoxoGOATSxoxo when in doubt, mumble.

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    Cheaters are never supposted to win, but sounds like this one did. Hopefullly "karma" will take care of her.
     
  11. james dilley

    james dilley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Any news on this story, As i remember you knew the does were pregnant.So what are the odds of it being that . I think Zero are the odds, So what are the parents saying??nother buck is the sire???
     
  12. prairiecomforts

    prairiecomforts Well-Known Member

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    I talked to this girl's mom today and I think that we got it straightened out. She first told me I was the one that was mistaken and that was not how it was listed in the record book and when I suggested we go over together and look at the book, she backed down. She told me it would be changed and when I checked this afternoon, she had just pulled the record book altogether. She said they would take it home tonight and make the correction. (The books still have to be on display until Sunday.) So - I am taking her at her word that they will change it and will just wait until tomorrow to see.
     
  13. Lizza

    Lizza Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Aack! I can't believe they did it on purpose! That's what it sounds like to me. What kind of lessons are those parents giving that child? How sad. I can't believe Tallpines post either, what are these parents doing to their children that they would do such things, I can't even imagine.

    We just got back from our 4H and there is one girl, actually in our group, who basically won everything. It's hard because her parents show goats on a national level and have been showing for 3 generations. I just hope she is truly showing her own animals, that she cared for and bred, and not her parents show animals. One of the other parents went over the rule book with the judges in one catagory but I don't really know what happend. It's hard because this girl pretty much cleaned house in every catagory but she really does have the best goats.

    p.s. I think you did the right thing talking to the parent and not the child.
     
  14. goatmarm

    goatmarm Well-Known Member

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  15. Jennifer L.

    Jennifer L. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lots of parents will never admit their child is wrong. The mother *may* not have known and was just knee jerking "my child didn't do anything wrong". But then when you pushed the matter decided to keep it all in the family and confront the child at home. At least, I hope that's the way it is. It would be awful if the parents were in on it.

    Jennifer
     
  16. Slev

    Slev Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't care for our local 4-H office, so we quit back when just my son was old enough to partisipate. (Our girls have never been a part of 4-H, or showing our livestock or other projects.) It seems like every year that we visit our local fair, there are less and less displays, etc. It's almost like the people in charge don't want the fair to go on or something.

    When my son was in 4-H, he entered the dog show and when he first started the 8 week program, our 2 year old Border Collie was the worst acting of them all. She had never been off the farm except for visiting a little at a friends farm. By the end of it, they won 1st place for 1st year AND overall 1st place. Since he was too young to go to state, that was the end of it. Then, he did it again the 2nd year, getting 1st place for 2nd year and best overall.

    That year he did go on to state, but didn't want to go, we forced him to do it. I was forcing him to practice, I became a slave-driver and took all of the fun out of it for him. While at state, a girl standing next to him was complaining that her mother and brother didn't help train their dog this year. (They were big AKC show people I guess) Anyway, our son hated it, didn't try and our dog broke the sit command at the second cut, so was out. The dog show was on Sunday, that following Tuesday our BC got loose and was run over and died. Our son has never partisipated in 4-H since.

    Well, actually, he did enter a dog the next season, but that was when we also wanted to show our first Dexter cow in the cow show. I took off work a couple of times to jump through all of the hoops you have to go through, in order to show, like weigh in your cow, get shots, Vet. checks stuff like that. Then one night I got a call from the county agent's assistant, who said they had our dog entry, but not our cow entry. I told her it must be some mistake, why would I fill out the paperwork on the dog and NOT the cow? I said I could come right up that night, and she said that it was too late to enter. I blew up at her and her boss and said what good was your phone call then, just to tell me we couldn't show the cow? I told her to go jump in a lake, and pulled the dog entry as well. (What ticked me off was I knew they allowed a friend of ours to run up and send in ther horse show papers LATE!!!!)

    So, the point of my ranting is that not just parents and their kids are didhonest, but some of the Extension Agents are as well, there are crooked people and jerks everywhere you go in the world, and often they seem to get ahead. The more people I meet, the less people I like.
     
  17. moonspinner

    moonspinner Well-Known Member

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    Does this record book reflect the actual documentation on the registration papers? I'm just unclear if your sire was entered on the reg. paper. Is this ADGA? Kudos to you for confronting her!
     
  18. crystalniche

    crystalniche Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of dishonesty going on at the shows. One little girl won several grand champion ribbons showing her mother's animals. My step-granddaughter wanted one of those ribbons so bad. It seemed as if this other little girl had won everything! We got to the exhibition hall, looked at her things and there proudly sat the grand champion ribbon on her shell collection. She stood, nose pressed to the glass case and stared and stared. Now she had one too only hers was won all on her own, no adult help there. I gave her my ribbon so now she had two. She was 5 at the time, she is now 10 but still has her ribbons and talks about that day.
     
  19. Carrie C

    Carrie C Well-Known Member

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    There are dishonest people everywhere. Sometimes there are reasons, most of the time there are none. If you look hard enough, there are flaws in all of us.

    Kudos for taking action on the little cheater, Prairiecomforts! Hopefully she'll at least think twice before lying again! I can't see any reason for lying like that!

    ~Carrie C.
     
  20. livestockmom

    livestockmom Well-Known Member

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    "But, she does have the best goats"
    Seems every time a child does really well, there will be parents wondering how it could possibly be true - there must be some mistake - they must cheat somehow -
    How would you feel if your hardworking children where the ones that were judged like that just because they win? I see this at every show...if the winning children only knew what was being said about them by adults and the rumors that start because of their winning...

    There are things that are clearly wrong, as in this case of the wrong buck being listed, but too many times there is bad sportsmanship by parents when their child doesn't win....Ive seen it at one too many shows this season.
    When I showed as a kid, people were kind to each other and they helped each other out...anyone else notice how catty its becoming?

    Glad you got the papers figured out.