Design challange

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by moopups, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    I have been trying to creat this one for years, as a simple low count of moving parts water pump. I want to pump water horizonally useing compressed air as the energy source. Yes I know that there are air motors that will turn a pump but they soon wear out. Maybe a floating compresson to push water from inside a tube structure? No moving parts is the goal - what can you come up with?
     
  2. herefordman

    herefordman Well-Known Member

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    no new design needed, just get a Diaphragm pump, very few moving parts and very reliable, and runs on air, and cheap too !!
     

  3. John Hill

    John Hill Grand Master

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    Horizontally you say Mitch? So you only have to lift it a little and gravity will do the rest?

    Let say you have a need to raise the water just 2 feet. How about a verticle pipe about 10 feet in length mounted so that 8 feet of pipe is below static water level. Then inject compressed air into the bottom of the pipe. Your 8 foot column of water then becomes a column of air and water which is lighter and will rise further up the verticle pipe and maybe flow out the top of your 10 foot pipe.

    Or maybe a venturi. These are easy to make and because of the great relative difference in density between water and air a really easy to make.

    John
     
  4. farminghandyman

    farminghandyman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    what is the water source,
    how far, any head, any drop, into a inclosed system or an open system,

    does the air have to be seperate from the water or can it be mixed?


    what is the air source, how many pounds of pressure, cubic feet, do you need to move more water than the cubic footage of the air being produced?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    saying I want to pump water Horizontally with air really does not give a person much to work with,
     
  5. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    Florida is very flat, the water could be maybe 4 foot below where it needs to be and about 200 feet away. The goal is to transfer the water to a tank for cattle watering, 5 gallon per hour is pleanty. Air mixture is not a problem.
     
  6. mikell

    mikell Well-Known Member

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    Where are you getting your air from their may be a better way. Just had an article on a bilge pump and a small solar panel for less than 50$. It was under solar powered fountains somewhere on the net.

    mikell
     
  7. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    Can you presurize the "4foot below" source and simply charge the chamber forcing water up through a submerged hose end? Lift the hose a few feet above the well and then slope as much of the 200 feet as you can so gravity/suction will assist. You can't syphen up hill but with added air presure it might work.
     
  8. farminghandyman

    farminghandyman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    http://www.quantumlynx.com/water/back/vol2no2/v22_st5.html

    fix a catch area and then put a pipe into it and use the air to lift it ( like in the URl above )and then gravity feed it to the tank, (I don't know if you would need a small tank, like a55 gallon barrol or if you could jsut Tee it and feed it ) since I have not tryed it,

    [ame]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=air+lift+water+pumping&btnG=Google+Search[/ame]

    http://www.airliftech.com/
     
  9. fordson major

    fordson major construction and Garden b Supporter

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    air cylinder operated cow pump .look at a pasture pump worked by the cows head will post picks of an old one i know of when ross gets back.
     
  10. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    Mitch, they already make the pump you're looking for. It's called a bladder pump. It's really simple; basically it consists of only two check valves and a bladder. It works like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. farminghandyman

    farminghandyman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have another Idea,

    and it would not take any more pressure than a few pounds above the head of where you want to lift water to,


    now I don't have a working model of it, but I think it would be easily do able,

    take a pressure type tank, and in the bottom put a check valve

    on the top you have a hole and then you would probably have to have a rod that was centered from the top to guide the air stop, and that could be a soft ball or toilet type ball stop, and it would have a rod that was closed on the bottom end to make a air tight seal on the guide rod,

    and then a float that would ride with the water in the tank,

    the float would do two things one seat the air valve, and then the weight of the float would ride down on the rod and un set the air valve,
    or another possiblity is a cage around a ball or a flat floating type plate, and then attach a a cord to it on the float for pulling it lose,

    my thinking is that water would enter the top of the tank with just a very little head 1" or so, and then as the tank fills the float rises pushing the air seal in to the top opening,

    (air is entering the tank all the time via another connection)

    but when the tank is full the air would hold the seal in place and displace the water trapped in side the tank,

    when it was near empty it the float would pull out the seal by its weight, and then water would again fill the tank,

    the trick would be to make the seal and the air pressure enough to hold while pushing out the water and yet the float weighted heavy enough to open it, that is why I was thinking of a toilet Ball c-ock, placed up side down, it that was used the guide rod may not be necessary,

    it would take some playing around with to get the right combination of air pressure and floating weight but I think it would work,

    and the check valve would keep water from filling back in from the bottom of the the tank,

    also the amount of water over the top of the tank would have to be shallow as not to unseat the air stopper,

    just an Idea, to me it sounds like it would work,

    if a person could get it working it could run on very little pressure, and the volume air would be used fairly conservatively,

    if one had a stream and even tho the head of the steam was near nothing if it could turn a water wheel, and in turn a small compressor it could pump water up hill a good distance, as two feet of lift is about one pound of pressure, so it would not take a lot of pressure to lift water a good distance,
     
  12. John Hill

    John Hill Grand Master

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    The easiest way to lift water from a running stream is to build a big diameter undershot water wheel with small buckets around the rim that lift the water to the higher level, a technique that has been well proven over the last 3000 years or so.
     
  13. Virg

    Virg Active Member

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    Floida eh, 4 foot head, compressed air itself, is expensive. Moving parts and all.
    You cant beat physics. It takes a quarter hp pump. How's your engine comming?