d i v o r c e

Discussion in 'Countryside Families' started by comfortablynumb, Nov 21, 2006.

  1. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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    ok you guys have convince me of one thing... never to complicate my life with a marriage.

    I've gone along quite well with having a GF, live out the possibilities, move em in, let em move out and then life goes along seamlessly.

    now you married people, once you say I do, this mystical set of manacles comes into play. legal, and technical and often religious chains that just make like (edited out).
    far easier to not marry...

    once your married you have these "duties" each one is somehow obligated to carry out, where if your just live in buddies... you do it if you please, or of it pleases you, and no expectation is there. If you become a jerk, you lose your home and companionship quick with no chains.
    married... jeeze you have laws and contractual obligations, legal repercussions, legal responsibility.

    anyone I've ever dated or lived with, we had none of these "problems" but I can see in retrospect the hell that would have followed if we had gotten hitched.
    saying I DO clasps a legal monitory obligation to care for the woman when you or she leaves the partnership. if your just shacked up,you leave and no one expects you to pay support. [married women legally seem to lose the ability for self support once married... single, they fend for themselves fine. a mystery of life for sure!]

    marriage it seems is a real trap.... thanks for pointing out that it isn't worth the hassle.
    you'd think after seeing my brother cycle through 7 marriages I would have realized this by observation and I did, but I always figured it was some redneck thang... but it isn't. he just knew when to get out and move on.

    Why do people cling to pointless relationships in marriage that if they were not married wouldn't even be an issue?
    oh the vows... right. the "before god" thing... right.

    religion and a code of moral conduct and accepted and taboo actions.
    these come with the marriage contract. funny thing is before the marriage you had all these same feelings and loyalties,
    with none of the chains. If you acted like a jerk, you were tossed to the curb. But married it isn't that simple, the mystical spooky language kicks in and well now you cant just leave.... we got vows and god was there and all that.

    A contractual nightmare. You got kids the man has to continue to support, married or not you still have about the same
    chance to collect if he wont pay, slim and none. your still on your own. If one wants custody marriage doesn't really matter
    for parental rights.
    so other than the worst case scenario complications, marriage has no real constructive use. Your better off just shaking hands and making a pinky promise. when it comes time to get rid of the dead weight, its far easier.

    Why marry? its a religious and social "thang"... if your religious you think god has to ordain the marriage or you'll go to (edited out),
    if you are non religious, you do it for the ceremony, and the social bonding. If you care neither for religion, or the
    social fluff and bother, everyone else badgers you to get married for their reasons. Thinking long and hard the only really happy folks I know are couples who are not married.... and have been for many yrs more than most who took vows.
    i think the vows just chain you to conformity, and tie you to the legal system of contract law.
    so thanks ya'll, you reminded me why I never got married and also, you gave my brothers actions validity for dumping dead weight 7 times.
    Marriage doesn't seem to keep you from being alone, or protect you from abuse, or even secure your economic position in life.
    It does, however, create a mass of complications, legal and civil. You can have it.... I'll pass.
     
  2. Melissa

    Melissa member

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    On the other hand... I like being married. Some of your points are valid for some people. About 50% of first marriages end in divorce and I think I read that close to 70% of second ones do too. It does not speak well of the institution overall, does it?

    I guess the problem with marriage is that it involves two people who usually both want their way. Most people are self-centered and that does not make a good marriage. But if you are willing to stick together, talk a lot and be honest, it can work. It is worth it when it does.
     

  3. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    CN, the use of profanity is not accepted here, why do you continue to issue it? Can you not learn to practice self control? Yes, I am out on a limb, but its time you stand responsible for you actions. STOP the trash language, there will not be any further warning from me.
     
  4. tinetine'sgoat

    tinetine'sgoat Luvin' my family in MO

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    I agree with Melissa. I like being married, kinda comes down to a mutual respect.
     
  5. WindowOrMirror

    WindowOrMirror ..where do YOU look? Supporter

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    The Bible says that "it is good for a man not to marry"... why? Because if he does, "he will have trouble in this life".

    So... same goes for gals. So why do we do it?

    Gals, the Bible says that "where there is no ox, the manger is clean"... so why, oh why, would you ever want one of us dirty males? Because, "much prosperity comes by the work of the ox".

    Not only do both sides get something out of the deal, but God ordained the man and the woman to be together, "it is not right that man should be alone, I shall make a helpmeet for him". Christ later uses the analogy of a bride and bridegroom for the church and Himself. Why?

    Marriage is a beautiful thing. The issue is that people are NOT beautiful things. In order to have a happy, dedicated marriage that grows in depth and love over time, the TWO INDIVIDUALS have to be connected to something greater than themselves. Both have to be dedicated to the relationship with each other - and in my opinion - dedicated to their relationship to God.

    If you are concerned about your own trouble, discomfort and such I would suggest that you are quite selfish and shouldn't get married. You have to learn to GIVE to be a decent person. Live for another, not yourself (I suggest living for God and showing that by giving to others). "Each of us should place himself below the other, serving each other in love". James even states that we should be glad for trials, because they bring glory to the Lord when we undergo them in a godly manner.

    A relationship with the Lord is no cakewalk, and we are the only problem in that relationship. Imagine then how hard a relationship with someone "imperfect" is! But it is so, SO worth it.

    Of course, Paul wasn't married and didn't need "fulfillment". He wished that "all men were as I am" so that we could all be fully dedicated to the work of the Lord.

    - - - -

    Now, from a secular and humanist point of view, I agree that your casual and cynical approach is the only way to interpret all the data. I'm just suggesting another worldview, that's all.

    R
     
  6. Wendy

    Wendy Well-Known Member

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    Like Melissa, I love being married. I could not imagine my life without my husband. What makes it special is someone willing to make the commitment to be with only you. Unfortunately, too many people do not mean it when they say it. :( Luckily, my husband & I both meant what we said.
     
  7. woodspirit

    woodspirit Well-Known Member

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    All it takes is one self centered person in a marriage to destroy it. That means that there is a fifty fifty chance that one or both parties are self centered. Not very good odds. Add to that the old adage that....people change. I like that one.
     
  8. mama2littleman

    mama2littleman El Paso

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    Numb,

    Just shacking up is no guarantee of lack of financial entanglements. Ever heard of Palimony?

    Nikki
     
  9. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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    point out the language, pm it if you wish... I will re read the post to see what I typed.

    often I type and dont pay much attention, due to the fact here, I have to walk on eggshells with my words. In my head and my fingers I type past the stray word and forget where it is its going.
    let me re read the post, if ts already been edits please PM me with the particular word you are talking about.

    I have fine self control. Its my eggshell walking that needs polish.
    as I told mellissa, I will certainly make a note of it.
    my in head definition of profanity probably is quite different than yours.
    with all due respect, I suggest you add it to the auto censor if its actually profanity.

    pm me and let me know what word I posted that was "profanity".

    *pause* I see its been edited, and I do not remember where or what could be "profane" in that post. refresh my memory.

    in any relationship I am "the giver" I am the "patient one" I am the "one who works the comprimise" and the one who "thinks ahead". my point of view isnt about self centeredness or selfish needs, its about pitfall avoidance for BOTH of us. I would not want to hamstring a woman who felt the need to run by some legal or moral bugaboo concept that she has to or should stay. Selfish? on the contrary, I tend to be more than generous and forgiving, of whatever they end up wanting to do. I draw a hard line at my patch of dirt... your name and bonds you cant tie to that. everything else, I share with open arms. it isnt a trust issue... Its one thing I will not share. i welcome you, give you free run of the place... kiss your feet shower you in afffection. give you the shirt off my back. Until you try to shaft me, then I'm not nice. and no.... I wont want any legal or moral bugaboo stopping me from handcuffing you to a westbound train.
    Ive been lucky thus far, no one has yet tried to really ruin me out of anger.... I dont give them the excuse or reason.

    if I we married all those times, I would certainly bee living in a box in an alley by now.
    oh no doubt, there are happy married people whos mutual bond with god is what keeps them together.... from a secular viewpoint I see that as just a shared commonality. No different than a strong common love or obsession for [whatever, horses, money, gardening ect] . saying its god so its deeper is your point of view, someone on the outsside sees it as not 'special' just "different".

    Some people cant handle the fact the other person changes and they dont. Unles you have a profound love for some other aspect of the person to make that change just minor annoyance... your are kinda done for. if that little change ruins your connection, then you didnt really have much of a connection there in the first place.

    so in the case of the locked thread... one has to wonder who changed and who cant or isnt trying to cope?
    in one light its obviously the man, but shift youre view askew, and it could very well be her that cant handle his changes.

    I am sure, the common "thing" with religion does indeed bond some people. If it works... good for you.
    those of us with no dogma, have to approach it all in a different way for different reasons. our "bonds" have to be different and since they are just as tight a bond, i conclude one is no different than the other; a pinky promise between two non religious people or a wedding in the sight of the almighty, both bonds work the same.

    when you dont fully buy into the religion and dogma and belief system and still enter into the contract of marriage, its like getting your kid circumsized when your not jewish... its a social thing you do for a pointless reason, becuse everyone else does it. when if you stop and think.... leaving well enough alone will be no different for the good, and far worse if it goes south.

    Do you think secular unmarried couples who have been together for a long time, and happy with no quarrels are somehow missing something?
     
  10. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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    palimony is far harder to win than a divorce is. Palimont is like a common law marriage, and in PA, we outlawed the common law thing... no more common law claims, they were found to not be consistant with contract law... and the court sees marriage contract the same as a buying a car contract or a lease.... its a business contract.

    personally if I feel I want to marry, i will give a pinky promise and cut the state government out of their control over my marriage via contract law. a marriage license is a legal joint partnership... no different in fat than buying a house under a joint contract.
    No thanks, life is hard enough.
     
  11. moonwolf

    moonwolf Well-Known Member

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    marriage....also called the 'holy deadlock'
    It's a legal contract. A contract between two people (a man and a woman in most jurisdictions, but that reads as 'between two people' in some jurisdictions)
    Divorce is the dissasembly of the marriage contract.
    Vows have little, or nothing to do with the contract of marriage.
    Trust, fidelity, loyalty, honour, love, and all those virtues have everything to do with two people bonded to each other, whether married or not.
     
  12. jamo

    jamo Well-Known Member

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    I only saw 2 edits. One I know was pretty lame. I couldn't figure out the other.


    I believe in marriage but also believe your side too.
     
  13. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

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    I believe in marriage if you are planning to have children. The contract will (somewhat) protect them.
     
  14. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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    it will effect their last name, the contract wont protect them from anything.
    only the parent can do that.

    the law will chase me for any children I father regardless of who I marry/
     
  15. Jenn

    Jenn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I married because we had to- we were in the Army and they would've separated us if we didn't. Have this stigma about unmarried parents of babies so would've before having kids with him as well anyway. If we feared the paperwork/legal obligations of marriage we sure had no business having a kid together!
     
  16. Pouncer

    Pouncer Well-Known Member

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    Very good points brought up here, thanks.

    Sometimes I wonder if whether a marriage works or not, isn't partly due to just happenchance-fate, whatever you call it. If you are lucky you will find you are with the person that makes the whole of you better, and that completes YOU. It's not a given, many couples don't have it, I am fortunate indeed. All the momentary passion of newness cannot serve as well, or even half as long.

    I waited a long time. So did my husband. It just took us that long to connect, is all ;)
     
  17. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    From a financial standpoint,we are way better off together than single. :)

    Plus they do all the housework in exchange for nagging privileges,its all a trade off. :p

    So what,in 20 years you'll be deaf from the nagging,she'll still be vacuuming herself to the moon and back,pretty good deal for us guys CN. :dance:

    BooBoo
     
  18. Ninn

    Ninn Custom Crochet Queen

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    The biggest reason today that marriages fail is this: failure to work at it. Kids today think that marriage is the end of the road. They don't begin to understand that it is truly the beginning of something wonderful. When they learn the difference between having a wedding and being married, I will hold out hope that they can handle the rest. I have been married for 18 wonderful years to my husband. I thank God for the gift of him every single day. He is not perfect, but he is perfect for me. If, God forbid, we ever get divorced, I do not expect him to support me. I can do that myself. I do not expect him to support our children financially.( they are mostly grown up now.) expect him to support them emotionally, spoil the grandchildren mercilessly and care that I have a good life. He is my best friend, my lover, my confidante, my partner, and my mate. I thank God for him every day because to be without him would be to lose my arm, my soul, my reason for getting out of bed and starting again every day. How can you possibly pass that up?
     
  19. jen74145

    jen74145 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    See, CN, I think it's great you've decided marriage isn't for you. I wish more people would be honest with themselves on that subject; would save alot of poeple alot of heartbreak. But then, suppose the divorce lawyaers would just have to find another line of work... lol.

    That said, I adore my hubby to death (and no, "shacking up" doesn't send you to hell) and can't imagine life without him. Of course I sometimes miss the freedom of being single, but a few concessions are a low price to pay for having my best friend by my side.

    I'm very much of the belief that marriage, once entered, should not be left except under the most severe of circumstances; ie abuse or adultery. But then I see couples who clearly had no business getting married in the first place, let alone procreating... you all know those couples who can't stop screaming and cursing each other long enough to pay attention to their own children, too. Just don't know what happened, marriage can be a wonderful thing, but both people have to be mature enough to make compromises and sometimes put away dreams they once had for the sake of their partner.
    Sadly, many people are so selfish that to actually do something for another person is morally offensive to them; then within a couple years it's off to court andneither one knows what happened. Let alone give something up...
     
  20. WindowOrMirror

    WindowOrMirror ..where do YOU look? Supporter

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    what do YOU mean by "shacking up" and how can you assert that it won't send you to hell? ;)