Homesteading Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm a tiny hobby companion breeder of a purebred working gundog (but today is mostly just a companion breed). Being a [former] purebred elitist I can tell you that getting a closed stud book breed club to sanction an outcross to improve a breed and widen a gene pool is next to impossible unless a breed is about to die out, which is not quite the case as of yet.

The conclusion I came to was to create a new breed so as to not offend anyone in existing breeds as well as to fit the needs of today's companion pet seekers(who are rarely appropriate homes for the existing breed) and my own needs goals. In all likelihood, I will fail a few times and if I'm successful, my breed will die out when I die but it's been a dream(obsession), so away I go on what I expect will be a good 10 year journey just to get a decent prototype (and someone else's lifetime to get it to breed true).

An unrelated crossbreed female recently joined my pack and I'm on the hunt for a male in the next few months. We'll see how the litters turn out. The first cross breeding is planned in 1-3 months when my 2 girls come into season.

Looking to discuss breeding with other breeders that carved their own path either within a breed, outcrossing, or creating their own mixed breed lines, or with pet owners/puppy seekers that aren't entirely happy with the current options, and what they'd want to see in a new breed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
I've seen enough mutts and unwanted dogs to make me not support much for breeding, especially when the hundreds of breeds we've had for hundreds of years should fit some sort of bill for today's desires. But dogs are property and if you have the desire, godspeed. I do hope you at least take in any pups who don't work out at their homes and do at least basic healthy testing for good hips, eyes, etc.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,576 Posts
I can't imagine what you need to have a gundog do that some existing breed can't already do.

But, be responsible about how you place the pups, get hips and elbows, eyes and thyroid certified on your breeding stock and only breed dogs with a good temperament and a good work ethic and expect to spend an awful lot of money on your hobby.
 

·
Unpaid, Volunteer Devil's Advocate
Joined
·
18,304 Posts
If you cross x with y, your pups are xy. Then what? You still need another unrelated, but still with the specific instincts of your dogs, from breed x and breed y. So you'll have xy pups to mate to unrelated xy pups. But, you'll need a third set of x and y to cross to provide mates for your next generation. You'll have 50 to 60 dogs in this project before you have an actual breed. Quite a juggling act even if you get owners to contract with you for exclusive breeding. Most successful breeds rely on heavy culling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
You would need to breed 5 generations to have the qualities you are wanting "fixed" You can only do this by starting with 2 animals that are alike in size & type, keeping & breeding only from those pups that are what you want. Massive undertaking, if done correctly would cost many thousands of dollars.
Not long read an article on the gentleman that breed the "Labradoodle" who now wishes he'd never done it, so many problems
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,428 Posts
The reason we have breeds is because we once had breeders. Part of being a breeder is breeding a lot of offspring in order to get some with the desired traits to go forward with. The offspring that are worthless to you and anyone else need to be disposed of. Culling is the most important part of any breeding program. This was much easier back in the days when you could just take them out back and shoot them, instead of needing to "give them homes". Homes that they would undoubtedly be maladjusted to, because they were not right, necessitating you to "take them back". This is why there aren't many breeds coming down the pipe nowadays, and the breeds we have are such garbage. Most breeds quit being whatever they were supposed to be not long after a breeder with your kind of vision blended his desired traits and got them to replicate themselves with predictability. That used to take a lifetime. With today's standards for "ethical" dog breeding, it would take about 18 lifetimes, and you would need 18 different breeders with the exact same vision and the exact same knowledge and experience to even create a breed.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,576 Posts
The big change in dog breeding came with the development of the distemper vaccine.

Before the distemper vaccine came into common usage, distemper would go through an area and kill over 90% of the dogs. That opened up a lot of homes to be filled and the big dog breeding kennels could place all of their puppies.

Now, it is not as easy to find good homes for a lot of puppies. it takes many years longer for a good home to open up because the dog has died.

When I was very young, distemper went through my neighborhood and killed every dog, except for my family dog who was the only dog vaccinated. I can still remember the next door neighbor ridiculing my father for wasting money on vets and shots for our dog. After the distemper epidemic, a lot of my neighbors were in the market for a replacement dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,653 Posts
Keep good records. Vaccination and Vet checks needs to be part of your business plan. Find the best breeding pairs you can afford that meet the breed standards. And work up. Make sure you have kennels that are safe easy to clean able to be heated and cooled..
Keep records on each dog and litters. When selling pups. Have a puppy contract stating the pup needs to be spayed neutered. Or you can have them done before they go to new homes. Never give a puppy away. Pet flippers, food for other animals, dog fighting bait.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
How are you choosing your breeding stock? And are you doing health testing on them?

Are you planning to do line-breeding to establish the traits you want, or are you going to be introducing dogs that "look" the part?


Personally, if I were going to focus on developing a new breed, I'd focus on the "perfect suburban/apartment dog." Long life-span, free of debilitating expensive or non-treatable disorders, limited energy needs, almost completely inexistent prey-drive, dog-tolerant. The ideal would be exceptionable for therapy work. It would most likely have to be a chunky, fluffy toy dog -- 'chunky' as in denser-boned and thicker-muscled (less prone to injury, unlike a lot of current toy breeds). Fur would need to be high-density, which would give it a chinchilla-softness affect, or maybe double-coated and floofy but seasonally shed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,860 Posts
Personally, if I were going to focus on developing a new breed, I'd focus on the "perfect suburban/apartment dog." Long life-span, free of debilitating expensive or non-treatable disorders, limited energy needs, almost completely inexistent prey-drive, dog-tolerant. The ideal would be exceptionable for therapy work. It would most likely have to be a chunky, fluffy toy dog -- 'chunky' as in denser-boned and thicker-muscled (less prone to injury, unlike a lot of current toy breeds). Fur would need to be high-density, which would give it a chinchilla-softness affect, or maybe double-coated and floofy but seasonally shed.
You forgot to add - Non-barker. I absolutely hate those yappy little head-strong ankle biters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronney

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
^ A lot of the issue is training and socialization, both being the owners' responsibility. I own a 9lb dog but he's not an ankle biter or demented noise maker. He's alert and barks at people pulling up to the house like any dog would and then has an off switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28,533 Posts
Many people in years past have had a passion for breeding. That is why we have the breeds we have today.

Good luck, and follow your passion.

Publish some pictures and the breed standard for us to see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Honeybee
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top