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I completely understand, and agree with you.

Almost half of my patient population is unvaccinated, and when I ask them why they give much the same reasons as you just did.

However I challenge you, and others who think the same way, to not deny the vaccine just because the leftist idjits are for it.

The vaccines do not prevent disease or spreading like TPTB promised.

Being vaccinated does greatly reduce the chances of severe disease in the individual.
If you think Pete was saying that people resisted “the vaccine just because the leftist idjits are for it”, then you didn’t really hear what he said, and it’s disingenuous for you to suggest that you ‘get it’. It’s not just that the senile pedophile is for it (after he was against it), or that the bad orange man was against it (before he was for it). It’s that everyone involved with it lied about everything around it.

We don’t, to this day, know how serious a risk the virus it’s supposed to address is, because they lied about that. How can we make even a basic, semi-informed risk/benefit analysis about something if we don’t even know what the risk is?

Now we’re finding out that they’ve even lied about the benefit. How can you ask, with a straight face, that someone take some course correction after acknowledging that they’ve been lied to about the nature of the obstacle in front of them, and then, again, about what direction the correction will steer them in?

It’s time to just shut up about the stupid shot that the rulers who invested in the virus also profit from. Everyone who wanted the holy governmental sacrament has taken it. Anyone that takes it, going forward, is just taking it in a capitulation of their Liberty. That’s not something to be glad about, in either case.
 

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If you think Pete was saying that people resisted “the vaccine just because the leftist idjits are for it”, then you didn’t really hear what he said,
I find it rare that you get something so wrong.

I didn't say people, like Pete, resisted "because the leftist idjits are for it."

I challenge Pete, and all of those who resisted the vaccine BECAUSE OF THE REASONS PETE LISTED, to make sure they don't CONTINUE to resist just because the idjits are for it.

Two different things.

TPTB promised us the vaccines would prevent disease/transmission and "let us all get back to work." They lied, or were terribly wrong at best. This has created an understandable level of mistrust with them. But one shouldn't let that level of mistrust detract from the realistic situation that we are in now, namely that the vaccines do a good-very good job of reducing serious disease in the vaccinated.

That TPTB got it so wrong does not change the ACTUAL beneficial value of the vaccine today.

It’s that everyone involved with it lied about everything around it.
Absolute statements like this are always absolutely false.

We don’t, to this day, know how serious a risk the virus it’s supposed to address is, because they lied about that. How can we make even a basic, semi-informed risk/benefit analysis about something if we don’t even know what the risk is?
While we do not have perfect knowledge of everything, in the past 2 years we have absolutely learned a LOT about how risky this virus is. ESPECIALLY to the obese and chronically ill, but also to some young/healthy people. As time goes by we will learn more about the long term risk of the disease (long-covid, recurrent infection, CHF, etc). Likewise, as time goes by we will learn more about the long-term risk of the vaccines.

How do we make a basic, semi-informed risk/benefit analysis about something we don't even know what the risk is?

Aren't you somewhat related to the personal security business? Isn't that your JOB?

Even lay people do this all the time. How does one best do that? Getting the best information they can and making the risk/benefit decision pertinent to their liffe.



How can you ask, with a straight face, that someone take some course correction after acknowledging that they’ve been lied to about the nature of the obstacle in front of them, and then, again, about what direction the correction will steer them in?
Because I see, every shift, the benefits of being vaccinated.

It’s time to just shut up
Are you becoming a leftist? Am I not allowed to disagree with you?

I think I'll keep speaking, thanks....
Anyone that takes it, going forward, is just taking it in a capitulation of their Liberty.
I would never ask someone to capitulate their liberty. I would choose liberty and freedom over safety nearly EVERY time.

I WILL try to give the truth about covid, vaccines, and anything else so that people can make the best informed decision they can.
 

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I didn't say people, like Pete, resisted "because the leftist idjits are for it."

I challenge Pete, and all of those who resisted the vaccine BECAUSE OF THE REASONS PETE LISTED, to make sure they don't CONTINUE to resist just because the idjits are for it.

Two different things.
Then that was an incredibly clumsy way of saying what you say you meant. Here’s your quote again:
However I challenge you, and others who think the same way, to not deny the vaccine just because the leftist idjits are for it.
No one is saying that’s their reason for not taking your beloved Covid shot (yes, I realize you’re empowered to call it a vaccine since they specifically changed the definition of “vaccine” so it would include this ineffective drug that they want people like you to evangelize to deplorables to take, so that they can take the deplorables’ money and give it to the (proven) criminal company that they also make stock profits from, just don’t expect us to call your sacred shot a “vaccine”) is or will be because of what any side’s “ijidts” say. It’s condescending and insulting for you to even suggest that. But don’t worry, we’ve come to see that you Covid shot evangelicals are on a whole new level of self-righteousness, and would expect nothing less from you.


TPTB promised us the vaccines would prevent disease/transmission and "let us all get back to work." They lied, or were terribly wrong at best. This has created an understandable level of mistrust with them. But one shouldn't let that level of mistrust detract from the realistic situation that we are in now, namely that the vaccines do a good-very good job of reducing serious disease in the vaccinated.

That TPTB got it so wrong does not change the ACTUAL beneficial value of the vaccine today.
Because “TPTB” lied so thoroughly, we don’t even know that there are any benefits to your precious shot. Accept that or don’t. I realize that your religious text tells you that the shot provides some benefit (even though it’s not the benefits we were told it provided… or the magnitude of its benefits we were told after that, I’m sure we should all take your word for it that it does something good… and we’ll figure out what that is, and how much good… aaaaaaany day now.), but you can’t honestly say that you know it does, because there is NO untainted foundational data about it. If you have a problem with that fact, take it up with the government officials who spiked the studies, sabotaged any other treatments, and make huge profits via their timely investing in the companies who make these tax-dollar subsidized shots. They’re your problem, not us.

While we do not have perfect knowledge of everything, in the past 2 years we have absolutely learned a LOT about how risky this virus is. ESPECIALLY to the obese and chronically ill, but also to some young/healthy people. As time goes by we will learn more about the long term risk of the disease (long-covid, recurrent infection, CHF, etc). Likewise, as time goes by we will learn more about the long-term risk of the vaccines.

How do we make a basic, semi-informed risk/benefit analysis about something we don't even know what the risk is?

Aren't you somewhat related to the personal security business? Isn't that your JOB?

Even lay people do this all the time. How does one best do that? Getting the best information they can and making the risk/benefit decision pertinent to their life.
You don’t know how many people have gotten Covid.

You don’t know how many people have died from Covid.

You don’t know how many Covid-shot guinea pigs have since gotten it, or even died from it.

You don’t know how effective natural immunity might be.

You don’t know that your treasured shot doesn’t degrade one’s developed natural immunity.

You don’t know what the long term effects of Covidaids might be.

The ONLY long term effect that you can be sure of, from that shot you so adore, is that billions of dollars will be taken from The People, given to the handful of companies that make your cherished shot, and that the people in power to force this to happen will make a tidy sum off of the timely investments that their status as rulers enables them to make. That’s ALL you know about the long term effects of your beloved shot.

That’s not a flawed intel-set. That’s a misinformation campaign. Don’t lecture people about making the best assessment they can from a set of intel that was specifically crafted to misinform them. If you’re not smart enough to discard the information, that’s your problem, not ours.


Are you becoming a leftist? Am I not allowed to disagree with you?

I think I'll keep speaking, thanks....
Telling someone to “shut up” is not the same silencing them, but don’t let that stop you from playing a victim card. Just like any religious zealot, you have the right to try to sell your mythology to anyone you meet, and that audience has the right to tell you to “shut up about it”.

I will point out that there are three, and only three, positions on your revered Covid shot:
1- People who don’t want it, and want to be left alone.
2- People who do want it, and leave others alone.
3- People like you.

No one is trying to push abstinence from your beloved shot that you’re so enthusiastically hocking for Pfizer. Those of us that don’t want it know that you’ve been bombarded with a withering fear campaign, and, even though we suspect it is bad for humanity in the long run, we don’t blame you for your moment of weakness in taking it. Congresscriminals gotta become multi-millionaires somehow, and you’re just doing your part to keep the ruling class ruling.


I WILL try to give the truth about covid, vaccines, and anything else so that people can make the best informed decision they can.
Of course you will. Evangelicals gotta evangelize. That’s what you do. Don’t let the fact that you can’t inform their decision with anything other than the bad information you were given and your own anecdotes, or that you have no idea whether they might have any natural immunity, OR if your treasured Covid shot might degrade those defenses that their body has developed over the last two years stop you from “informing” them of the “truth” about your beloved shot.

In fact, maybe you should make up a pamphlet. The next time a Jehova’s Witness rings your bell, don’t send them away. They’re offering you a perfect template. You’d only have to change a dozen or so words, and you’d have a pamphlet exactly as data-driven to push your own chosen faith.
 

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Then that was an incredibly clumsy way of saying what you say you meant.
That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

I'll use a comparative analogy. I think the teachers unions are destructive and should be disbanded. Throughout the pandemic the teachers unions have shown that they would rather shut down the schools so the teachers don't have to work rather than do what's best for the kids. I GENERALLY disagree with almost everything the teachers unions do.

However when some school districts are reporting almost 20% of students, teachers and staff are positive it makes sense to close the schools for a week to help flatten this actual curve.

So one can be anti-teachers union and still agree with one thing they do, just as one can be against TPTB's overall covid policies and still realize that the covid vaccines are effective in preventing serious disease.

No one is saying that’s their reason for not taking your beloved Covid shot
I'm not saying it was. I'm asking reasonable people to reflect to see if perhaps that IS part of their reason.

we don’t even know that there are any benefits to your precious shot. Accept that or don’t.
Yeah, we do.

Unfortunately there are people who are so brainwashed that they believe EVERYTHING said by TPTB.

And unfortunately there are people who are so brainwashed that they have a vitriolic hatred for EVERYTHING said by TPTBB.

Neither place is a good/healthy place to be.

but you can’t honestly say that you know it does,
I'm confident that the vaccines are very helpful in preventing severe disease. The data is strong, and getting stronger on this.

because there is NO untainted foundational data about it.
There is NEVER untainted foundational data about any medication.

I will point out that there are three, and only three, positions on your revered Covid shot:
1- People who don’t want it, and want to be left alone.
2- People who do want it, and leave others alone.
3- People like you.
That's pretty close minded.

There are many more positions on the covid shot. A lot of people don't know what to think about the vaccines because all they hear are idjits on the left screaming that if you don't get the shots you are evil, or idjits on the right screaming that the shots are poison and only the feebleminded get it (or, as one idjit spreads here, "you only get covid because the news makes you scared").

There is a wide area of people in the middle who are looking for reasonable information on the risks/benefits of the vaccines, and it's hard to find that reasonable information because the ideologues are so passionate, and scream so loudly, about their beliefs.
 

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That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it.

…Blahblahblah more Covidian cannon about the dangers of Covidaids to children…

I'm not saying it was. I'm asking reasonable people to reflect to see if perhaps that IS part of their reason.
Yep, and it’s condescending and insulting for you to project your own illogical cognitive tendencies onto others. We got it, you sometimes form opinions based on how people you disagree with think. Again, your weakness, not ours.


Yeah, we do.

Unfortunately there are people who are so brainwashed that they believe EVERYTHING said by TPTB.

And unfortunately there are people who are so brainwashed that they have a vitriolic hatred for EVERYTHING said by TPTBB.
No, we don’t know that there are any benefits to your beloved Covidaids-shot sacrament. I realize that your devotion to the faith is strong, but literally all that you have to go on is your own anecdotal experience. None (nada(zilch(zero))) of “the data” can be trusted because it is all manipulated. Your day-to-day experience says your beloved Covid fear-shot helps… something… I guess… but, for every anecdotal experience one of you Covidians has, there is someone with anecdotal experience that it’s making things much worse.

I'm confident that the vaccines are very helpful in preventing severe disease. The data is strong, and getting stronger on this.
I don’t, for one second, doubt that you are confident in your sheep medicine. I mean, those Heaven’s Gate wackos were 100% confident there was an alien space craft hiding behind that comet, so why wouldn’t you have diehard faith in Fauci’s money laundering scheme.

Are you you trying to suggest that you Covidians are somehow better than all the cultists who came before you? That’s rather thick.

“The data” is NOT “getting stronger every day”. The lies are getting thicker, and the cultists are getting more gullible by the day, but “the data” doesn’t exist. It was destroyed. Intentionally.

You don’t know how bad Covidaids was before your beloved shot was launched, so you don’t know how comparatively bad it is now. That is a fact. You don’t know, and the fact that you claim to know shreds your credibility. For all we know, the fear-shot you’re pleading with people to take is making things worse.

If we were to believe “the data”, we’d see that more people have caught the Covidaids, and died from the Covidaids, in the past year, since we had your treasured Covidaids-shot, than in the preceding year, before your savior graced the land. But, I don’t go around repeating that, trying to evangelize people away from your revered fear-shot because (#1) I DGAF what they do, and (#B) because I know that the data was rendered meaningless- it’s called “intellectual honesty”, I know, not covered in the cult on-boarding documents, so you’ll have to choose whether or not to take my word that it exists.


There is NEVER untainted foundational data about any medication.
Yes, there is. You see, there have been brief moments throughout medical history when we adhered to something called “the science” (the no capitals, no exclamation point, no trademark variety). Under “the science”, data was preserved to the best of our ability, bad data was thrown out, and, in the event that a result came out that was unfavorable to the desires of those conducting it, the actual results were still… (gasp) published.

Crazier still, and you might want to sit down for this, no effort was made to silence data that ran counter to the desired outcome.

I know that will take some time to digest, and I hear they’re doing final dress rehearsal for the latest tick-tock dance routine in the overcrowded, understaffed, crisis-mode ICU upstairs, so I’ll let you get back to that.

There is a wide area of people in the middle who are looking for reasonable information on the risks/benefits of the vaccines, and it's hard to find that reasonable information because the ideologues are so passionate, and scream so loudly, about their beliefs.
Yes. Finally, we agree on something related to Covidaids and your holy, needle-based sacrament. I addressed the ideologues in my category #3, “People like you”. That covers ideologues, evangelists, the gullible and those with an agenda; think of it as a blanket of intellectual dishonesty.

People in categories #1 and #2, who either want your fear-shot or don’t, but otherwise leave each other alone, do have a hard time finding “reasonable information on the risks/benefits of the vaccines(sic)” because #3s, like yourself, insist on spreading the misinformation that there is good information to be had, claiming that some of it is still, somehow, “good data”.

They’re all just blind, morally unclean lepers who can’t see the truth until you share it with them. They, too, can find salvation, if they just roll up their sleeve and claim their $19.50 share of the billions we’ll send to Pfizer to save us all. Blessed be he. Amen, and shazalazam!
 

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I actually am vaccinated, whole family is , we all still had covid even though some of us tested negative , I have a lot more access to family that are medical professionals and to colleges that are in the public health governmental agencies.than most.

it does seem to have some benifit , but I don't blame anyone who doesn't take the vaccine I have family that have chosen not to
they are no greater risk to anyone
if the hospitals hadn't created the emergency by purging the nurses who wouldn't vax , they wouldn't be in the bind they are in now either.
I work with Hospitals fairly regular they are mostly just a business , but they have learned to play the dumb games also.

as long as we are on the topic of half truths

I have a very strong suspicion that the pcr test is not very accurate , what I don't seem to find is any actual data on how accurate it is , just repeated claims that it is very accurate. but then wording like a positive covid test means you likely have covid. it makes me wonder what the definition of Very accurate is , are we talking 0.001 error rate or 0.01 how many digits after the decimal point is Very Accurate?

keep in mind that 3/5 of my family all in the same small house recently tested positive and the 2/5 that were negative had the worst symptoms

could the test really be as bad as 40% off could nearly half be "very accurate" we are getting to the point that this isn't a single random occurrence multiple families are having similar test results , people who had no close contact with any one who tested possitive but did have contact with a tested negative person where then very sick with it days later.

why did they lie up front about it being an airborne pathogen.after all Sars-1 was why wouldn't Sars-2 why was Billions wasted on surface cleaning

the Governent , the medical establishment and the media should come clean total admission of every lie told and parroted over and over until responsibility is taken you might as well be Josh Duggar selling used cars with a side of Kiddy porn no one wants your product.
 

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Almost half of my patient population is unvaccinated,
I have a legitimate question and am not looking to be snarky or jerkish about it. By "unvaccinated" do you mean "never got the shot" or "recently got the shot"? TPTB made very sure to have no distinction between the two when the interim period is a very important factor.
 

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Consider that there might be some people whose doctor told them not to get the shot. In the case of transplant patients, or anybody on immunosupressants for any other reasons. Their doctor might tell them that they can't risk stopping their medication to get the shot, and that there might be more risk of infection to go get the shot to be worth the limited protection the shot would offer while being medicated with the drugs they are taking. These people would be considered unvaccinated, and would also be very likely to end up in the hospital, if they contracted covid. Or people with bleeding disorders, whose doctors couldn't get the platelet numbers right to be safe to puncture. Or the people with severe allergies that were afraid to get the jab. This would skew the numbers a little towards more unvaccinated in the hospital, as this would include some people who unfortunately were not in good health.

Also, what about the people who are living on the streets taking things like flacca, krokodile, and fentanyl. I know they don't have a huge aversion to needles, but how many of those people are concerned enough for their health to rush out and get vaccinated? There is no chance these folks could be showing up in the ER at a disproportionate rate is there?

And what if you lived in an area with a large number of unvaccinated people to begin with? Could this possibly skew the numbers in your anecdotal personal trials enough to assuage your confirmation bias, if you were of a certain ideological mindset to begin with?

Undoubtedly, there are some overweight beer swilling ********, some of them quite aged, with Trump stickers on their pick-em-up trucks, who refused to get the shot, and also whose relative geographical and economic isolation sheltered them from the virus until this point in the pandemic, who are showing up in the ER, very sick with Covid. But they still don't make a very good argument for people in healthy demographics who have been exposed continuously since the beginning to be forced to get the shot at this late point in the pandemic.

To suggest there is a nurse working in a hospital who hasn't been exposed at this point, and doesn't have antibodies of their own at this point, and didn't have them before there was an available vaccine, takes a real leap of faith. To suggest that he or she should be fired, at this point, for not being vaccinated, during a time when getting anybody to show up is difficult, is ridiculous.
 
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My concern is do the recently vaccinated have lowered immunity due to the time it takes to produce antibodies to covid. Having the cold or flu makes one susceptible to getting another nasty since your body is fighting off one virus already. We are already hearing about people having covid and the flu. Every year people complain about coming down with the flu fight after getting a flu shot. While you cannot get the flu from a flu shot, and you cannot get covid from the covid shot, does the shot lower the immune system enough to allow a virus, to which you were recently exposed, time to gain a foothold in your system?
 

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Yep, and it’s condescending and insulting for you to project your own illogical cognitive tendencies onto others. We got it, you sometimes form opinions based on how people you disagree with think. Again, your weakness, not ours.



No, we don’t know that there are any benefits to your beloved Covidaids-shot sacrament. I realize that your devotion to the faith is strong, but literally all that you have to go on is your own anecdotal experience. None (nada(zilch(zero))) of “the data” can be trusted because it is all manipulated. Your day-to-day experience says your beloved Covid fear-shot helps… something… I guess… but, for every anecdotal experience one of you Covidians has, there is someone with anecdotal experience that it’s making things much worse.


I don’t, for one second, doubt that you are confident in your sheep medicine. I mean, those Heaven’s Gate wackos were 100% confident there was an alien space craft hiding behind that comet, so why wouldn’t you have diehard faith in Fauci’s money laundering scheme.

Are you you trying to suggest that you Covidians are somehow better than all the cultists who came before you? That’s rather thick.

“The data” is NOT “getting stronger every day”. The lies are getting thicker, and the cultists are getting more gullible by the day, but “the data” doesn’t exist. It was destroyed. Intentionally.

You don’t know how bad Covidaids was before your beloved shot was launched, so you don’t know how comparatively bad it is now. That is a fact. You don’t know, and the fact that you claim to know shreds your credibility. For all we know, the fear-shot you’re pleading with people to take is making things worse.

If we were to believe “the data”, we’d see that more people have caught the Covidaids, and died from the Covidaids, in the past year, since we had your treasured Covidaids-shot, than in the preceding year, before your savior graced the land. But, I don’t go around repeating that, trying to evangelize people away from your revered fear-shot because (#1) I DGAF what they do, and (#B) because I know that the data was rendered meaningless- it’s called “intellectual honesty”, I know, not covered in the cult on-boarding documents, so you’ll have to choose whether or not to take my word that it exists.



Yes, there is. You see, there have been brief moments throughout medical history when we adhered to something called “the science” (the no capitals, no exclamation point, no trademark variety). Under “the science”, data was preserved to the best of our ability, bad data was thrown out, and, in the event that a result came out that was unfavorable to the desires of those conducting it, the actual results were still… (gasp) published.

Crazier still, and you might want to sit down for this, no effort was made to silence data that ran counter to the desired outcome.

I know that will take some time to digest, and I hear they’re doing final dress rehearsal for the latest tick-tock dance routine in the overcrowded, understaffed, crisis-mode ICU upstairs, so I’ll let you get back to that.


Yes. Finally, we agree on something related to Covidaids and your holy, needle-based sacrament. I addressed the ideologues in my category #3, “People like you”. That covers ideologues, evangelists, the gullible and those with an agenda; think of it as a blanket of intellectual dishonesty.

People in categories #1 and #2, who either want your fear-shot or don’t, but otherwise leave each other alone, do have a hard time finding “reasonable information on the risks/benefits of the vaccines(sic)” because #3s, like yourself, insist on spreading the misinformation that there is good information to be had, claiming that some of it is still, somehow, “good data”.

They’re all just blind, morally unclean lepers who can’t see the truth until you share it with them. They, too, can find salvation, if they just roll up their sleeve and claim their $19.50 share of the billions we’ll send to Pfizer to save us all. Blessed be he. Amen, and shazalazam!
Congrats on your mastery of the English Language, specifically your outstanding ability to pigeonhole anyone who triggers your fragile emotions enough that you are forced to throw so much excrement against wall, much the way an actual simian does.

The vaccines reduce severity of disease. It is clear as the sun came up the morning, and will come up tomorrow morning. You can rant childishly and call me all the names you want but it doesn't change the CLEAR fact that the vaccines reduce the severity of the disease. You can bring up (sometimes valid points) about Pfizer, government, past lies told, etc....but it doesn't change the CLEAR fact that the vaccines reduce the severity of the disease.

My hospital today:
22 covid patients, 3 are vaccinated
14 covid patients on respiratory support, 0 are vaccinated
6 covid patients in the ICU, 0 are vaccinated.

It's not religion. It's as clear as the sun coming up tomorrow. You can think I'm a zealot, or not, but your ignorant opinion means nothing to me, or anyone else.
but I don't blame anyone who doesn't take the vaccine
I don't either. As I said, most people I talk to who are unvaccinated just can't figure out who to listen to. They are smart enough to understand that what they hear from the media elites is complete BS, but that noise is overwhelming. A similarly overwhelming noise comes from the other extreme (ala the gunmonkeys of the world), so they are stuck between two extremes both calling them an idiot for getting/not getting the shot.

I have a very strong suspicion that the pcr test is not very accurate
I do too.

why did they lie up front about it being an airborne pathogen.after all Sars-1 was why wouldn't Sars-2 why was Billions wasted on surface cleaning
I don't know. It was clear to me VERY early that it was airborne. I think much of this was a mix of poor news reporting by a media that doesn't understand science, the add in their desire to tie the orange man with anything bad, and then sheer government incompetence.

By "unvaccinated" do you mean "never got the shot" or "recently got the shot"?
Mostly "never got the shot", and mostly because the media calls them stupid (and worse) for NOT getting it, and the gunmonkeys of the world call them stupid (and worse) for THINKING about getting it, so they are paralyzed into inaction.
 

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Mostly "never got the shot", and mostly because the media calls them stupid (and worse) for NOT getting it, and the gunmonkeys of the world call them stupid (and worse) for THINKING about getting it, so they are paralyzed into inaction.
Thank you for responding and your honesty.

I called my mom a couple things for getting boosted but only because she was so sick after the first two shots. I then told her to stay home for a few days so she wouldn't be around any bugs until her immune system recovered. I hope the shot works for her. She has been exposed several times since Christmas, the most recent by breakthrough cases.
 

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In the case of transplant patients, or anybody on immunosupressants for any other reasons. Their doctor might tell them that they can't risk stopping their medication to get the shot, and that there might be more risk of infection to go get the shot to be worth the limited protection the shot would offer while being medicated with the drugs they are taking.
I defer advice on these to the transplant teams, oncologists, etc. However in my relatively common conversations with them I have never had one say their patients shouldn't get vaccinated due to their immunosuppressants.

I have had many patients disagree with their subspecialists and refuse to get the vaccine.

Or people with bleeding disorders, whose doctors couldn't get the platelet numbers right to be safe to puncture.
You could still get an intramuscular injection even if your platelets were unmeasurable.

And what if you lived in an area with a large number of unvaccinated people to begin with? Could this possibly skew the numbers in your anecdotal personal trials enough to assuage your confirmation bias, if you were of a certain ideological mindset to begin with?
Statistics.

Lots of ways to statistically adjust for this.

But in my area the statistics are easy to figure out, we are at about 50% unvaccinated. So if there were no benefit to the vaccine, about half of our sick patients would be vaccinated and half unvaccinated.

Turns out we admit almost NO vaccinated patients for covid, and the few that do get admitted almost always do better than the unvaccinated.

And this is not just in my area, but across the board in every hospital in the country right now.

But they still don't make a very good argument for people in healthy demographics who have been exposed continuously since the beginning to be forced to get the shot at this late point in the pandemic.
Two things to unpack here. First, I agree nobody should be FORCED to get the shot at any point.

Second - I agree the risk of the virus is clearly less for young/healthy in comparison to the old/sick, therefore the benefit of the vaccine is less for this group and may approach the risk of the vaccine itself.

To suggest there is a nurse working in a hospital who hasn't been exposed at this point, and doesn't have antibodies of their own at this point, and didn't have them before there was an available vaccine, takes a real leap of faith.
This is a weird disease. We have been swimming in covid for 2 years, but with this wave many of us are just getting sick with it for the first time.

To suggest that he or she should be fired, at this point, for not being vaccinated, during a time when getting anybody to show up is difficult, is ridiculous.
I agree.

My concern is do the recently vaccinated have lowered immunity due to the time it takes to produce antibodies to covid. Having the cold or flu makes one susceptible to getting another nasty since your body is fighting off one virus already. We are already hearing about people having covid and the flu. Every year people complain about coming down with the flu fight after getting a flu shot. While you cannot get the flu from a flu shot, and you cannot get covid from the covid shot, does the shot lower the immune system enough to allow a virus, to which you were recently exposed, time to gain a foothold in your system?
I think it is a reasonable concern, but I don't think we have the answer for that. Like many things in medicine, there seems to be conflicting molecular/in vitro theories/data on this, and it would be nearly impossible to do large scale population studies on this due to the high number of variables that would have to be controlled to give us the right answer.

So I think the consensus is there may be a slight increase in short term risk, but the reduction of long-term risk grossly outweighs this.
 

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I wish that we could continue conversations about the situation without belittling each other and comparing a poster to an ape throwing feces.
 

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Well from the looks of it, antibodies to covid original, either from a vaccine or from exposure, don't do a lot for omicron variant. And I also don't think that many people have actually gotten healthier during this ordeal.
 

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I wish that we could continue conversations about the situation without belittling each other and comparing a poster to an ape throwing feces.
Me too. Along with throwing excrement around like comparing ones experience with vaccines as religious dogma, a tik tok dance, and the other stupidity that has been thrown on the walls.
 

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Well from the looks of it, antibodies to covid original, either from a vaccine or from exposure, don't do a lot for omicron variant. And I also don't think that many people have actually gotten healthier during this ordeal.
Yes, omicron appears to be a whole new ballgame.

As for people not getting healthier, I agree. Gyms and parks shut down, isolation and quarantine periods, mental stress, pay cuts, job losses and so many more factors have made most people worse than they were before the whole mess began. Delayed mental and physical health care is harming many people too.
 

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Mostly "never got the shot", and mostly because the media calls them stupid (and worse) for NOT getting it, and the gunmonkeys of the world call them stupid (and worse) for THINKING about getting it, so they are paralyzed into inaction.
Find a single post of mine calling someone “stupid” for either thinking about or getting the shot. I’ve made a few obviously sarcastic comments about needing all the fear-shot junkies to solitary quarantine for the next few years, but that was only (and obviously) out of exasperation when you Covidian zealots have gone over the top.

I don’t care if anyone gets your beloved $20 bat-feces-dissolved-in-sugar-water shot. Never will. I do think, taking the lessons from actual vaccines of the past (including what happened with Merrick’s), that this crap-“science” shot is going to prove to be bad for us in the long run, but I’ve only ever mentioned that in those exact and thoroughly caveated terms.

I said there were three positions on your needleborn sacrament:
1- People who don’t want it, and want to be left alone.
2- People who do want it, and leave others alone.
3- Pro-shot evangelists like you.

Prove me wrong. Even just using the membership of this board, almost everyone falls into #s 1 and 2. Then, there are the dozen or so, like yourself, that take every opportunity to try to encourage everyone to drink your Kool-Aid and lace up the matching Nikes.

I had been letting your garbage go in one ear and out the other until you “challenged” the un-vaccinated jabbed to not decline it just because of what the “ijits on the left say about it”. There may be a more arrogant and condescending line in the pamphlet they sent you out on mission with, but I doubt it.

The vaccines reduce severity of disease. It is clear as the sun came up the morning, and will come up tomorrow morning. You can rant childishly and call me all the names you want but it doesn't change the CLEAR fact that the vaccines reduce the severity of the disease. You can bring up (sometimes valid points) about Pfizer, government, past lies told, etc....but it doesn't change the CLEAR fact that the vaccines reduce the severity of the disease.

My hospital today:
22 covid patients, 3 are vaccinated
14 covid patients on respiratory support, 0 are vaccinated
6 covid patients in the ICU, 0 are vaccinated.

It's not religion. It's as clear as the sun coming up tomorrow. You can think I'm a zealot, or not, but your ignorant opinion means nothing to me, or anyone else.
That’s EXACTLY the point; you DON’T know that, and I can prove that you don’t know that just by asking you one simple question:

How many of the people who’ve taken your fear-shot had Covidaids either at the time, or before they got the shot?

You can’t answer that, so you don’t know that you jab has done a single damned thing. Counter to good (real) science and virology best-practices, despite having a test available, the deacons in your church decided (and in some cases even mandated) that everyone gets the shot anyway.

For all you know, the people most likely to choose the fear-shot were also the people who travelled the most, interact with the most other people, and… crazy, I know… maybe even work in a job that required them to take the sacrament because their work environment happened to put them most at risk for catching Covidaids.

Ponder on that for a second: for all you know, some, or even most, of the statistical benefit you’re seeing from the shot/tribute to Pfizer’s campaign donation coffers is actually post-infection antibodies at work, and not the sacred non-vaccine shot that you “challenge” others to be big enough to consider objectively.

In one breath, you acknowledge that the foundational data surrounding Covidaids is heavily flawed, and, in the next breath, you’re evangelizing to others to contribute to Fauci’s retirement fund based on selections of that data that support your narrative.


Going back to the first point; I’m at least intellectually honest enough to not claim to “know” what I posit as a as a possibility, or even a suspicion, because I truly acknowledge that the data is so flawed as to be unusable. You, on the other hand, are more than eager to talk down to people, crafting an argument to support what you “know” based on Cherry-picked data.
 
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