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STILL not Alice
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I know in my own family there has been hesitancy to go to the hospital because you have to go alone. Here you still cannot have a person go in with you, either to the doctor, the ER, or inpatient. Which breaks our cardinal rule of always having someone with you when you're incapacitated so that you don't end up missing a limb or something worse. Passed down to me by my surgical nurse grandmother who also didn't trust the system because she worked in it.

Unfortunately, recently we've had an ER visit in which I wasn't allowed into the ambulance or into the ER with my immediate family member. I sat in the car for 9 hours, interspersed with periods of me walking into the ER, being hysterically yelled at to get out, and being a Karen until they updated me on the family member's condition (who luckily was conscious and able to give permission for me to know, or else I'd be sitting there having my own reason to go to the ER).

Another family member had a minor surgery, in which I also had to sit in the car waiting for them to call me with updates. Couldn't even be with them in pre-op or recovery, or leave my car to help when they loaded them into it afterwards.

We've fully landed in crazy town. I wonder if it's going to continue this way even after restrictions are lifted because it also removes any witnesses to potential malpractice that they had to contend with before.
This is our greatest concern. We do not go into an ER/hospital situation without someone to be our advocate.

Back when we were first married (20 some years ago), I had to go to the ER. The doctor ordered a drug that caused my blood pressure to drop precipitously. DH went to fetch a nurse, who initially blew him off. But he was persistent, and she came back to find me passed out.

Had he not been there to insist that she come and check on me, who knows what would have happened? As it is, the doctor ordered a drug to counteract the med I was given, and I recovered quickly.

DH and I solemnly promised that we would never leave the other alone at the mercy and whim of fallible humans with the power of life and death over us. We have discussed that promise recently, in light of what could happen in a world where the govt and powers-that-be have decided that they can dictate what is best for us, whether we agree or not.

We live in perilous times.
 
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When I was in labor with my second baby the doctor had checked me and said it would be a couple hours yet. Both he and the nurse left with only hubby and me in the room. The very next contraction I felt the uncontrollable urge to push. Hubby had to run down the hall to get a nurse. (of course they had moved the stupid call button. Why do medical personnel always move the call button?) By the time the doctor came back, the baby's head was on the way out. If hubby hadn't been there I would have given birth alone.

Then there was the time hubby had his appendix out. The nurse came in to examine the incision and started to move his gown from the left side!

Granted, neither of these were life threatening. Just a lack of care and concern for the patient. It's just some of the things that cause mistrust in the medical system.
 

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Voice of Reason
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Discussion Starter · #303 ·
Ohio has already lifted many restrictions but hospitals and doctors offices still will not allow visitors. So much for the right to have a patient advocate.
That's not going on here, at least not at Sunrise Children's Hospital. My girlfriend's son had abdominal surgery and I sat with him for a few hours Friday morning so she could run some errands. Here's my visitor pass.

sunrise-pass-removed.jpg
 

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Yeah it's definitely regional. My family in Alabama has been able to be in the hospital with my mother very recently. I guess you can only pass/catch Covid in the hospital in places like Ohio and California, you're safe in Alabama and other places.

Does it give you a clue as to why some people are thinking this isn't all about Covid?
 

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Voice of Reason
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Discussion Starter · #305 ·
Does it give you a clue as to why some people are thinking this isn't all about Covid?
No doubt, some people are going to make the most of it, same as military contractors make the most of war. While I don't like it, I expect it.
 

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When I was in labor with my second baby the doctor had checked me and said it would be a couple hours yet. Both he and the nurse left with only hubby and me in the room. The very next contraction I felt the uncontrollable urge to push. Hubby had to run down the hall to get a nurse. (of course they had moved the stupid call button. Why do medical personnel always move the call button?) By the time the doctor came back, the baby's head was on the way out. If hubby hadn't been there I would have given birth alone.
Actually I'm getting ahead of myself. The doctor had put me on pitocin and kept increasing the dose because the contractions were not regular. It got to the point where I could not breathe, the pain was so bad. They kept losing the heartbeat on the belly band and were already talking about prepping an or. They wanted to put a sticky monitor on the baby's head but hubby would not allow it. So when I had a contraction the nurse had to push on my belly so the external monitor could pick up the heartbeat. That stabbing pain caused me to inhale sharply, which helped oxygen get to the baby.
 

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No doubt, some people are going to make the most of it, same as military contractors make the most of war. While I don't like it, I expect it.
That would be a false equivalency. Just as claiming we are following "The Science."
Mixing political science, medicine, junk science, experiments and research, dubious names and scientific jargon is like pouring fruit loops and tomato soup into your chili and continuing to call it "The Chili".
"The Science" is no longer anything more than a cliche.
 

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That's not going on here, at least not at Sunrise Children's Hospital. My girlfriend's son had abdominal surgery and I sat with him for a few hours Friday morning so she could run some errands. Here's my visitor pass.
This was the newspaper article outlining visitor policies, but from what I have heard in many cases visitors are not permitted.


Hubby went to the doctor in March. Their office still does not allow visitors.
 

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In a little town outside of Boston, a small hospital is allowing one visitor at a time. We have a loved one there. 😞 Not sure what the bigger hospitals are allowing.
 

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Voice of Reason
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Discussion Starter · #311 ·
"The Science" is no longer anything more than a cliche.
That's based on the idea that since scientific research has to be funded somehow, that the funding source dictates the outcome. That's not what I observed while doing industrial research into refining catalysts. We were guided by activity testing, and that determined the outcome. I could give you some examples of research not turning out the way the powers that be wanted, but I doubt you're interested.
 

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Voice of Reason
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Discussion Starter · #313 ·
I'm always interested in the exceptions to any rule. You shouldn't expect those you disagree with to all carry closed minds. It isn't contagious.
A good example is incorporating rare earth metals into refining catalyst. The oil company I worked for had interest in that because they owned and operated the world's largest rare earth mine, which produced more than half of the world's production of lanthanides (rare earth metals) at that time. On orders from upstairs we invested a lot of effort into looking at rare earths.

When I was first assigned to the project I told my manager that I didn't hold out much hope that rare earths would be useful in oil refining, but he cautioned me to not go into a research project with preconceived ideas. While he made a good point, my skepticism wasn't taken out of thin air. If there was one thing we knew for sure it's that refining catalysts depended on Lewis acidity, and that Lewis bases inhibited activity for the reactions we were looking for. Lanthanides are Lewis alkaline metals.

But you never know, there could be some obscure benefit to using rare earths. We worked on it for the better part of a year but it turned out that adding rare earths to refining catalyst inhibited activity, as was expected. Years later someone did some exploratory work with using rare earths for reducing SO2 sulfur emissions from FCC units. It worked, but not as well as non-Lanthanides worked. That eventually flopped also.

But the point is that despite pressure from above, science prevailed over corporate whims.
 

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Be powerful. No other option exists.
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Example of the other end of the “science” spectrum:

cigarette research
 

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Voice of Reason
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Discussion Starter · #315 ·
Example of the other end of the “science” spectrum:

cigarette research
The cigarette research strategy is being used today in climate research. They want the public to believe that, like cigarettes being bad for you, climate research is so complicated that nobody really knows for sure. Heck, for all we know cigarettes and greenhouse gases are good for us. Right?

Sure, human health and climate are both complicated topics, but that's why we have medical doctors and climatologists. They can tell us what the risks really are.
 

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I think you TOTALLY missed the point about early research into the harms of cigarette smoke. The research was funded by the tobacco companies and then suppressed.
He didn't miss it. There are so many examples of fraud and outright deceit within the recent years of R&D that using the medical field, for which is the OP, just keeps the door open for valid refutations of existing "science". He tried another field and well, different field same dirt.
A bit of honesty goes a long way towards the discussion, but if one is so sold on patriotism and the likes of the Fauci crew that it seems a single concession is one too many.
In this specific case, the truth sucks when it isn't on your side.
 
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