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I had saved a thread about copasure and making gelatin capsules for supplementing copper but when I went to use it today, it was gone! I was pretty good about it year before last and had very little foot issues...this year I have only been giving them copper via minerals (some good advice from friend Cindy about using horse minerals for part of the week-higher copper) although spotty lately due to rain in mineral feeders. I am starting to notice an increase in sore toes (inflammation, etc. between the toes). I wonder if anyone can point me to the thread on copper and copasure? I want to redose and monitor to see if that helps with integrity of the foot during wet weather. I am also being more rigid about checking feet weekly.
 

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Saanendoah says 1 gram per 22 pounds. It will vary based on the deficiencies in your herd, your feed, and your soils if your goats graze/browse much. You will have to experiment over time, doing liver biopsies on animals that pass just to be sure, but you can get pretty close to meeting their needs if you follow Saanendoah's recommendations.

It may be easier for you to order the 2gm or 4gm boluses directly from the UK. I did that last year and still have enough to get my whole herd through my aggressive regimen for last year and this year. In fact, they will probably expire before I can use them all. :( Not happy they sent me ones with an expiration date within 14 months of my order! Will have to make sure I specify against this next time.
 

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Just clicked on the saanendoah link and it says the site is gone. :(

The copper boluses don't expire - I think they have to put some kind of expiration date on the packages, but I wouldn't worry about it. :)

Where did you order the smaller boluses? I'm buying them at Jeffers and opening them to fill smaller gel caps, but if the price is similar, I'd rather get the small prefills. It's about time to order more copper, so this thread comes at a good time. Thanks!
 

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The boluses probably have the exp. date to mark when effectiveness starts to wane.

I ordered them direct from FarmRite in the UK.

http://www.farmrite.co.uk/search.ds2?s=copinox&t=any

Two good friends of mine just went overseas this year and one remembered to bring some more boluses back for us to all share. That sure saved on shipping!

The 2gm and 4gm boluses are something like 1.7gm and 3.7gm copper (respectively) in each bolus (check the label of the ones you want to be sure), so you have to take that into account in your dosage calculations.

My understanding is that the copasure and the copinox (available from teh UK) boluses are made by the same company but they do not have a license to sell them in smaller capsules here in the US. Go figure. I suspect it has something to do with the outdated notion that any amount of copper is toxic to all goats and sheep. Did you know that many shepherds bolus their flocks of sheep in Europe?
 

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We saved all of saanendoah.com because we knew Joyce was not going to keep up with it anymore. Most of the links are long dead to the university sites. But it is all we have now. Her information is up on other sites, it would just be nice if they would also give a nod to the years of work she did for them to pretend this information is their own.

Jeffers always has copper boluses for cattle. What I do is make them down into 50 pound capsules and 100 pound capsules, since I bolus my kids when they hit 50 pounds and before breeding when they are almost 100 pounds...plus it's easier to give the bucks 2 whole 100 pounders with some of the adult does and others 1, 100 and 1, 50 etc... With you living in the pacific northwest bolsuing is going to be a way of life, it's where all of the tests were ran, I know as far south as San Diego most bolus.

dairygoatinfo.com the saanendoah.com info is in goatkeeping 101. vicki
 

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I copied the good information from the Saanendoah site as well:

The animals are dosed to weight at the rate of 1 gram copper oxide in bolus form per 22 pounds at five to six month intervals, laboratory work has shown that liver and kidney concentrations start to fall rapidly after about four months.

AND

Smaller size capsules: "000" (1.37 mL) - "00" (0.95 mL) - "0" (0.68 mL) "1" (0.50 mL) - "2" (0.37 mL) - "3" (0.30 mL) - "4" (0.21 mL) For smaller doses or multiples (an adult dose of 6.25 grams or 1/2 of a 12.5 gram boluse will fit into two "000" capsules).

Then, since my scale turns out not to be accurate enough, I did the conversions based on volume (milliliters) rather than weight (grams).

So, if 6.25 g will fit into two “000” capsules of 1.37ml each,

2 * 1.37 ml = 2.74 ml

6.25 g Cu / 2.74 ml = 2.28 g Cu / 1 ml. So the copper rods are 2.28grams per ml.

1 tsp = 5 ml (known conversion factor).

1ml Cu = 2.28g.

5ml * 2.28g = 11.4g Cu per teaspoon (5 ml).

If dose is 1 gram Cu per 22 lb bodyweight:

A 90-pound goat should get 90 / 22.5 = 4.09g Cu.

4.09 g * 5ml/11.4g = 1.79ml.

3/8 tsp = 1.87 ml, which is close enough for me.

A 130-pound goat should get 5.91g = 2.6ml = slightly over 1/2 tsp.

Incidentally, the main idea of the bolus is to keep the goat from chewing up the rods, but people seem to have a lot of trouble getting boluses down their goats' throats, and I can certainly understand. I avoid all that.

When I am going to give my goats copper, I use a drencher. The rods are too long to fit through the nozzle of a regular drencher, so I got a horse paste tube with a large opening, and have been using that with good success. The opening is large enough for the longest rods to fit through crosswise.

To dose, I get a ripe banana and mash it up good in a bowl. I fill the "drencher" full of the mashed banana and squirt it into another bowl, which I'll call the "dose" bowl. I suck just a little pure banana back into the drencher from the dose bowl, then add the copper dose to the remaining mashed banana in the dose bowl. Once this is also sucked into the drencher, I'm ready to drench the goat. The goats don't mind the taste of the copper nearly so much if it's in with banana.

The pure banana at the end of the dose serves two functions. First, it guarantees that the doe gets the whole dose of copper because none is stuck in the nozzle. Second, it leaves the doe with the delicious taste of pure banana in her mouth. Happy goat! Incidentally, I don't do this when they're about to get fed, or when they've just been fed, because I want the copper rods to have a chance to sink before they get pulverized in a cud.

So there it is. This seems to work well for me. YMMV! :)
 

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I just wanted to bump this thread so it'll stay around a little longer, since it covers where to find the info.

Jcran, I really like the banana idea!
 
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