Communal-Living Naysayers UNITE!!

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by Boleyz, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

    Messages:
    2,053
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Location:
    KY
    Well,

    I was asked to leave one thread, pointedly ignored on another, ridiculed on a 3rd, and laughing too hard to even type on a 4th. I'm talking about the "Community living" Threads we've seen in recent days. So, being a staunch proponent of 1st Amendment rights, I thought we might need to open a thread for the Naysayers.

    If you think (as I do) that planning communal living and investments with strangers on an internet discussion board is just a wee bit...how shall we say, "Off the Grid", mentally speaking, please post your Nays right here.

    This thread is not intended to sort out who's a real Christian (I am one by the way), nor to post links to large, cheap parcels of rocky hillside land. It is not for the purpose of getting excited and trying to determine some "Community Rules" to live by.

    This thread is just a chance for the Naysayers to have their say on why it could never work. True Communistic thinkers are welcome to read, but if you try to convince people in here that it is a workable idea, be forwarned that scathing ridicule may ensue.

    Remember, be sweet...Now, let's hear it from the Naysayers...
     
    blaundee likes this.
  2. Mike in Ohio

    Mike in Ohio Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,143
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Well, I'll jump right in as a naysayer! What first amendment rights exactly do you think are involved here? Unless Chuck and MeanDean have taken over the U.S.A. I'd say no 1st amendment rights involved.

    Mike

    P.S. Why would I care either way about whether a group investing together or setting up a commune are successful or not? I don't figure it's my business unless I'm choosing to participate.
     

  3. jnap31

    jnap31 garden guy

    Messages:
    3,516
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Location:
    AR (ozarks)
    I think this thread is stupid and wont last long seems any naysayers that wanted to have their say have already done so in the community threads.Also the yelleville, Ar and maddison county Ar as well as the pinebluff Ar and TN properties linked to were not rocky hill sides. As negative as you are it is a wonder to me that you have been as successful as you have been. Would you mind letting us know do you own your two KY steads free and clear? Just curious you dont have to respond.
     
  4. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

    Messages:
    2,053
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Location:
    KY
    Why can't a Naysayer have his Naysaying and still be loved? I'm glad I've piqued your curiosity. The way that I've owned my 2 Ky. Properties have been Good Credit and Hard work and years of dedication. That's a good point to stop and Naysay on...

    There is no Easy Way. Pooling your resources with strangers will most likely result in disastrous relationships and severe disappointments. Just as the man who built his house upon the sand. Please, retain your independence. Don't become a Communist...

    Methinks you all are being a little too offended here...this is a thread for the Naysayers...we have a right to be heard without authoritarian spankings.

    Please, let's not have thread drift with the opening posts here...
     
    blaundee likes this.
  5. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

    Messages:
    2,053
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Location:
    KY
    I thought all the threads on Communist living were "Stupid", although I was never so rude as to come out and say it. You're about to make me pout.

    As far as negativity, I was merely trying to inject a little reason and thought into some over-excited adolescent thinking I was reading. I'm actually an eternal optimist. That's one reason I guess I'm not planning to duck out "off the grid" and hide from my govt. Talk about negativity...how about those who fear that we're on the edge of the Apocalypse and need to run and hide...Trust me...They will find you...Bwha, Ha Ha Ha.....
     
  6. rzrubek

    rzrubek Flying Z

    Messages:
    648
    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    You can't argue with communists boleyz, it's their "something for nothing" mentality, they just can't get over it. :D
    But to paraphrase mike in ohio, some people just have to learn things the hard way. :sing:
     
  7. Boleyz

    Boleyz Prognosticator, Artist

    Messages:
    2,053
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Location:
    KY
    It's not my intention to argue, merely to Naysay on Communist Living. I do catch your drift that some seem combative. No wonder the cold war was so long...Authoritarian Communist thought always seems to clash with those who love living free and owing no man anything... :dance:
     
  8. Quint

    Quint Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,510
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    I have to say those discussions are certainly providing oodles and gobs of entertainment for those who enjoy observing the various aspects of human nature in action.

    It starts out so grand and then the obvious gets pointed out, people get mad and then the wheels fly off and all hell breaks loose.

    Fascinating stuff.
     
  9. stanb999

    stanb999 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,042
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Location:
    PA
    I gotta chime in.
    I've read most of the posts about this. In a perfect world. Like the Garden Eden. This would be great.

    The other thing is most of these "Community living" people wish to have a open democratic society. They take about "building a consensus" for many decisions.This method is poppycock. The leader leads / the group follows. They want mob rule (kinda like the witch trials). This method leads in all directions.
     
  10. stanb999

    stanb999 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,042
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Location:
    PA

    I think we have missed the boat. THese people wish to create the commune. They don't wish to join one. It sounds to me that they wish to be like David Koresh making all the rules and sleeping with all the ladies.

    That can't be all bad. :)
     
  11. posifour11

    posifour11 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Location:
    SW MO
    you can't take away the human spirit, no matter what you do. could also be called work ethic if you like. simply put, if one person is willing to work more or harder than another, what is in it for them? would their family get more votes? or more property? anything at all? that, to me seems to be the biggest drawback to communism.
     
  12. michiganfarmer

    michiganfarmer Max Supporter

    Messages:
    6,633
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Location:
    Near Traverse City Michigan

    I think the people that want this kind of life arent worried about "how much can I get for me". I think these people want to live off the land, realise it takes a lot of labor, and are loking for others to share the labor, and the food that is produced. By brother and I share 80 acres that is connected to my dads 70 acres. I make and sell maple syrup, and use that to pay the property taxes. My brother rents some of our land to some farmers in exchange for a beef cow every year. My dad raises and sells hay to pay for his tractors, and to pay his taxes. My brother and I help him and we get to use his tractors when we need them. Is not exactly a commune, but I think its pretty close to the idea that the cominuty people are trying to accomplish.
     
  13. stanb999

    stanb999 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,042
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Location:
    PA
    This is called being a family. Not a commune.
    Does your neighbor use the property as you and your brother?
     
  14. jnap31

    jnap31 garden guy

    Messages:
    3,516
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Location:
    AR (ozarks)
    When they come looking for me to put a chip in me or my kids they will find bullets as well. I guess you dont raise animals? Do you think NAIS is a good thing?
     
  15. jnap31

    jnap31 garden guy

    Messages:
    3,516
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Location:
    AR (ozarks)
    Sometimes drift cant be helped
     
  16. posifour11

    posifour11 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Location:
    SW MO
    i agree, i'm am thinking that i would be dealing with people i don't know. and still, what if brother wanted to cut and sell some maple for lumber? or didn't want to share ALL of the beef? how about if he thought he spent more time than you on making the fence secure? not trying to pick on you personally, but just a what-if. i just have trust issues with my siblings and that brought it out.
     
  17. fin29

    fin29 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,622
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    Location:
    Maine
    I've posted my opinions on this before, but for the purposes of this thread, I'll just say this: I will always be suspicious of people who don't believe they can meaningfully interact with society-at-large and feel they must surround themselves with like-minded (whatever that means) individuals to feel secure in their lives. There's a reason these schemes rarely work, and if a person points out those concerns, they're labeled a naysayer or spoil-sport, so what's the point of even engaging in the discussion.
     
  18. jnap31

    jnap31 garden guy

    Messages:
    3,516
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Location:
    AR (ozarks)
    Thats funny I guess you have never checked out the thoasands of communities at www.ic.org that have worked.
     
  19. MorrisonCorner

    MorrisonCorner Mansfield, VT for 200 yrs

    Messages:
    3,736
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2004
    Location:
    VT
    You hit the nail on the head... while it might be nice to imagine a utopian society, the fact is that what you'd have to give up to live in "harmony" far outweighs what you "get" in return. Let's see... the Shakers gave up sex... but they had, for as long as it ran, a marvelously utopian society. Kinda hard to reproduce members... but utopian...

    But would I ever consider laying down cash to live with a bunch of people who were so insecure they wanted to exclude as much of the world as possible to maintain their "purity?" Uh... no. It sounds like a great way to lose both your money and your mind.
     
  20. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

    Messages:
    31,404
    Joined:
    May 10, 2002
    Location:
    Texas and S. Missouri
    The temptation to get bogged down in the various claims by the commune-ists is very tempting, but I will resist. :)

    First, I wish those who think commune living is a good idea would research the history of communes, past the ones that are currently starting, are recent creations, or have claim to fame. For the hundred or so in the U.S. that are currently functioning at some level (and we can't tell what level from a website), there are, historically, thousands that have failed. Many of us on this board are mature hippy-generation folks that have been to college, studied the Utopian ideas, and learned a thing or two. We aren't nay-saying out of ignorance.

    Second, the real reason that most intentional communities or communes fail is that people are human. Study 'group dynamics,' and you will find that in ANY given group, people behave in predictable roles. You are going to have leaders, goof-offs, clowns, a worker bee or two, and drones. The naturally occuring conflicts between the people in a group are unavoidable, and the tendancy of groups is to self destruct over these conflicts. Unless there is a very strong binding commitment, most groups will fail, whether it's business or the PTA. If you have ever had your kids in Little League, you know what a nightmare groups can be.

    Third, why are the naysayers vocal? Because we mentally put ourselves in the situation the commune/intentional community advocates are proposing and have a galloping case of heebie-jeebies. We've either been there / done that, or we have studied it, or we have a relative who tried it. We would rather our fellow homesteaders didn't tread this slippery path toward losing their worldly goods and dreams of self sufficiency. Those of us who have realized our dreams of paid-for land, gardens, water wells, barnyard animals, and compost piles KNOW that it's personal hard work that got us here. There really aren't any short cuts.

    Finally, if you want to go ahead and try a commune or intentional community, more power to you. But please visit several first. Don't try to re-invent the wheel by discussing ad nauseum all the basics. The ground work has been done by other groups over the centuries. READ and learn from the many failures and few successes. Knowledge is key.

    Blessings on all of you, no matter which side of this discussion you are on.