color question...

Discussion in 'Rabbits' started by rabbitgal, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. rabbitgal

    rabbitgal Ex-homesteader

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    We're expecting some English Angora babies, and I've been making some really uneducated guesses about what colors they're going to be! This stuff is Greek to me. :p Wanna take a stab at the genetic stewpot?

    Willie, the sire of both litters, is a lilac pearl (aa bb cchd_ dd ee) out of a REW buck and a lilac pearl doe (blue, REW, lilac pearl, and REW grandparents). Apparently pearl is a shaded color in the same color group as sable, tort, and smoke pearl.

    Lacie, the dam of litter #1 is also a lilac pearl. Her sire is a REW and her dam is a chocolate tort. Her grandparents are lilac tort, opal, self lilac, and chocolate tort.

    Liberty, the dam of litter #2 is a lilac pointed white (genetically aa bb ch_ dd E_) out of a blue buck and chocolate pointed white doe. Her grandparents are black, chocolate tort, chocolate pointed white, and self chocolate. Pointed white/himalayan is in the same color group as REW.

    Any guesses as to what color the bunns are going to be? Lilac pearl? Lilac pointed white?

    Thanks!
    Hannah
     
  2. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

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    my un educated guess is that you will have alot of Lilac and REW show up with a few of the darker throw back colors comeing through more than likely, but its also a very good possibility that you could end up with all lilac types for a few litters
     

  3. Jennifer L.

    Jennifer L. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think you will get mostly some kind of Lilac, since everything you've got is lilac already. And you should get REWs out of Lacie (25%). Should be VERY FUN nestboxes! :)

    Jennifer
     
  4. rabbitgal

    rabbitgal Ex-homesteader

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    Thanks....it sounds like we'll have some surprises in the nestbox then. :)

    I found this color genetics calculator online (http://mammarabbit.com/modules.php?name=Calculator) similar to the ones in the pedigree software like Stibbar. I don't know how accurate the thing is, but according to it, about 25% of Liberty's litter may be "black self chin"...as in normal chin, right? That would be neat...
     
  5. Somerhill

    Somerhill Well-Known Member

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    From Lacie and Willie, you can only get lilac pearls and REW.
    There is no such thing as a "throw back" to darker colors when you have dilutes.
    Dilutes are recessive, so they cannot carry the darker colors. If the breeder you bought from is correct on color ID, both buns are
    aa bb c(chd)c cc ee.

    From Liberty and Willie, you can get lilac pointed himi, an unrecognized color I would call lilac sable, but you could probably pass off as a lilac smoked pearl, and if Liberty carries REW recessively, then REW. If the second "E" is non-extended (e), then more lilac pearls.

    On Liberty, there is one wild card. If her breeder has mis-identified her color as lilac pointed, and not blue or even chocolate that is faded from summer heat, you can add chocolate pearl, blue pearl, smoked pearl. and another unrecognized color, chocolate sable.

    Lilac pearls are just about as recessive a color as you can get, so if you want more color variety, you'll have to buy some different colors. Just a hint - don't buy agoutis to breed to what you have. You'll get a bunch of unrecognized colors. Try solid colors like black, chocolate or sable.

    Lisa at Somerhill
    www.somerhillfarm.com
     
  6. rabbitgal

    rabbitgal Ex-homesteader

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    Thanks Lisa! Actually, the color genotype for the rabbits is not listed on the pedigrees; they're just ones I pulled off an Angora website. So...I may not have the correct genotype after all! I'm pretty sure the color phenotype listed is correct though. :shrug: I think I "get" the bare basics of color genetics in general, but I'm having a hard time making sense of exactly what all the letters do, LOL.

    The breeder did say she thought Lacie could be a tort pearl instead of a lilac, so if that's true, would we be getting a bunch of goofy colors? I suppose if she produces anything but lilac pearl or REW, the question would be answered pretty quickly.

    Is smoke pearl a "black" pearl, or are other genetics involved?
     
  7. Somerhill

    Somerhill Well-Known Member

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    A "black pearl" would have creamy white wool, with dark points that are sable colored(very deep brown) aaB-c(chl-D-ee

    A smoke pearl is actually a dilute of a seal. Its a blue with 2 copies of the shaded gene. It has colored points, and the body is shaded. The lightest color is on the top of the back, and it gets darker the farther down the body you go. aabbc(chl)c(chl)ddE-

    Yeh - angoras can be hard to tell color on as adults, since the wool does not show the color like the haircoat on a normal furred rabbit. And English are that much harder, because the wool covers nearly the entire rabbit. Sometimes the forehead is your only real clue. :)

    When you have a litter, get a good description of each kit at about 4-5 days - noting what color they are on the face, belly, back, and especially the underside of the tail. That will help a lot when they are adults, and you are trying to decide what color they are.

    When I was learning color genetics, it helped me to look at a code string, and then see what happened to the color when you just change one letter. Like this
    aaB-C-D-E- is black.
    AaB-C-D-E- is chestnut agouti.
    AabbC-D-E- is chocolate agouti
    aabbC-D-E- is chocolate
    aabbC-D-ee is chocolate tort
    Its FUN! Like a puzzle.

    Lisa at Somerhill
    www.somerhillfarm.com