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No charge for awesomeness
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Two of the big 3 are shutting down for a month
Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081218/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_autos

If the TARP money is going to be issued to them, someone better git-r-done so they don't collapse completely. Paulson and the rest of the crooks didn't seem to fiddle around when it came to the banks bilking the taxpayers out of their money ...... That was an overnight corruption scheme .......

I got word that Honda in Marysville Oh is closing for three weeks because they are having money shortages also. Instead of just being closed for one week between Christmas and new years, Honda will also be closed the week before Christmas and the week after new years. It was also told to me by a worker there that Honda is considering laying off many of the 2300 part-time contract workers (Adecco), if not all of them. This is doomer news that is coming from employees withing the Honda plants. The Big 3 seem to take all the headlines but the other auto makers are struggling too .....
I bet we'll hear more about the other auto makers down the road.

Ohio Rusty ><>
 

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The whole reason why Paulson argued for the Bailout in the first place was so banks would start lending again. I would be curious to know why the Big Three can't get a loan from from one of the bailed out banks. What is happening is the banks are hoarding the cash and not lending it anyway. So near as I can tell the only thing this bailout has succeeded in doing is making sure the jetset Wallstreet types still have jobs.

I have a bail out plan kicking in the back of my mind for the Big Three. How about making all of those banks that got bailed out give the Big Three a loan. Then the tax payers wouldn't be on the hook if the auto companies went under. In a normal functioning credit market when a company needs money they go to the bank, NOT the government.
 

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The problem is that people are not buying cars. You can't force them to buy cars.

The banks are literally kicking people out of the life boats. I was against bailing out the banks because of one simple fact: Americans already have too much debt. We can not push a string to get them to borrow more and keep the credit bubble inflated.

I feel sorry for the autoworkers.
 

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I think part of the problem is too many types of cars....each automaker, including imports, makes a whole fleet of different models. Maybe just sticking to 3-4 types each would work better. And make them last longer while they're at it. My parents had cars in the 60s and 70s that lasted decades, and yet most cars built these days are meant to be replaced in 5-7 years. The whole "throwaway" economy we have is troubling to me.

My hubby had some nice leather dress shoes for work, and when the soles got worn down we found out that the one shop we could find that did resoling wanted as much to do it as to buy another new pair. Same with my toaster oven - why spend $20-$30 getting it fixed when I can buy another one for the same price? I'd rather fix the old one, it had a lot of use left in it, but our society is set up to buy new, new, new.

I think this will change as our economy gets worse. People will have to think about fixing the hem in their pants instead of just buying new ones.
 

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when I worked for subaru they would shut down for two weeks every christmas and every summer. i don't think this is that unusual. probably a longer shutdown than they had planned though.
 

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Maybe the auto maker will slim down. I personally think a Chapter 11 would be a better deal. At least then they could get legal right to lower union wages to a more competitive rates. Most are employee heavy, Duplicating functions across sub brands, GM, Chevy ,GMC. Ford, Lincoln and mercury needs to go. Dont need all those brands.

I would also like to know where all the profit went from the SUV sales over the last 10 years. With 25-35% markup on SUV's were did that money go. IF we do go the bailout then TOP down limits on perks, salaries and benefits need to be imposed. I think any publicly traded company shouldn't allow management benefits to exceed those given to low level employee's.
 

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I would also like to know where all the profit went from the SUV sales over the last 10 years. With 25-35% markup on SUV's were did that money go. IF we do go the bailout then TOP down limits on perks, salaries and benefits need to be imposed. I think any publicly traded company shouldn't allow management benefits to exceed those given to low level employee's.
As much as people focus on them, the salary/benefits of executives are ultimately a drop in the bucket for these companies. And I can't agree on the strict limits some want to place on management - what these companies need more than anything is a good management team with the cajones to make the hard changes necessary to survive. If they could find such a person, even at double the net cost of the current executives, it would be a good deal for the company, the employees, and the stockholders. Unions get (and deserve) a good deal of the blame, but management of these companies has also (with a limited exception for Ford) not taken the steps needed to ensure long-term company sustainability. :soap:

As to the question of where the profits went on the SUV's - it went to cover the losses on the smaller cars. Basically, the CAFE standards require a "fleet average" mileage that requires them to sell more small cars than people would ordinarily be buying. Thus they had to drop the price on the small cars below what it cost to make them to get enough of the "small-car" market to meet their fuel efficiency guidelines. Because of this they pumped the profit on their larger cars to compensate.
 

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There is only so much people can buy when they are worried about the future and where their next paycheck will come from. Even with the fear people buy more what they need and less what they want.

I think people holding back on spending are being smart no matter what economists say to the contrary.
 

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Even if times were most excellent, I doubt if I'd buy a new car or truck...

For me to buy, they'd have to get those 50 or 60mpg diesels here NOW! I get a free car mag each month, and last month they had five or so cars that are Ford, Chevies, etc., made overseas, that get great mileage.

They should have went bankrupt. Incoming president has stated the workers must be taken care of. Why Bush did this is a mystery... The only way for American cars to compete is to shed the deadweight, and this bailout bill fattens the deadweight... (Unions)
 

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We are a bail-out nation. Industries are already lining up for "me, too."

Even business is throwing capitalism under the bus for a "free" drink at Uncle Sugar's teat.
 

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The whole reason why Paulson argued for the Bailout in the first place was so banks would start lending again. I would be curious to know why the Big Three can't get a loan from from one of the bailed out banks. What is happening is the banks are hoarding the cash and not lending it anyway. So near as I can tell the only thing this bailout has succeeded in doing is making sure the jetset Wallstreet types still have jobs.

I have a bail out plan kicking in the back of my mind for the Big Three. How about making all of those banks that got bailed out give the Big Three a loan. Then the tax payers wouldn't be on the hook if the auto companies went under. In a normal functioning credit market when a company needs money they go to the bank, NOT the government.
Banks aren't lending to the Big 3 for the same reason the Big 3 can't a loan from any type lender/investor: they represent a greater than average risk of failure and they have a business model that is outdated and not competitive with the rest of the industry.

Banks, whether they are getting bailed out or not, are not lending as right now the priority with most of them is to shore up their balance sheets. The banks are not much different than the average consumer: when times are tough, they tend not to take on as much risk as they normally would do.
 

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There are probably smarter ways to do it (help the industry), but I don't want to see the heavy industry of the USA go belly up. We need it. The same way we need to keep farmers in business even if it costs: the country has to have the ability to grow it's own food. Unless we want to import everything, we have to keep what we've got in some fashion. I don't want to see our tanks come from China, for example.

How we do it, I don't know, but we shouldn't let it slip away because it's satisfying to think they are getting their just desserts.

Jennifer
 

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Toy now says they are going to lose money for the first time in 70 years and Canada,Europe and some more are working out a bail out of there car company's.
 
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