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Discussion Starter #1
I don't think this is up to date...

Here is Rebekah's list of recipes that haven't been tested yet, from quite some time ago, that are in the 10th chapter but not the 9th edition. The page numbers of the 10th chapter are listed before each recipe (may vary in your copy).

17- Canned Goat Chunks
41- Cream Gravy
54- Garlic Dill Cheese
54- Savory Cheese
60- Salting Cheese
61- Salt Cure for grating Cheese
61- salt Cure for Feta Type Cheese
64 - Brie Cheese
64- Milk Paint
66- Goat Milk Ice Cream
66- Carla's Basic Ice Cream Recipe

These are the 9th edition recipes that have been tested. Much thanks to Kelle for getting this list together!

Mock turtle Soup pg. 731
Apricot Milk pg. 743
Pear and Ginger Ale Milk pg. 743
Maple and Ginger Ale Milk pg. 743
Banana Lassie pg. 743
Shaker Syllabab pg. 743
Boiled Custard pg. 744
Basic Rennet Pudding pg. 744
Vanilla Rennet Custard pg. 744
Buttermilk Cultured Milk pg.745
Basic Yogurt pg. 745
Flavored Yogurt pg. 746
Vanilla Yogurt pg. 746
Yogurt & Cucumbers pg. 746
Yogurt Salad Dressing pg. 746
Frozen yogurt pg. 746
Caramom Fruit Yogurt pg. 746
Yogurt Cheese pg. 746
Easy Kefir pg. 746
Kefir made with grains pg. 746
Kefir from a Blob pg. 746
Sour Cream Cheese #1 pg. 748
Sour Cream Cheese #2 pg. 748
Devonshire or Clotted Cream pg. 748
Easy Curd and Cream pg. 749
Doris Gronewald’s Goat milk cottage cheese pg. 749
Dry Curd Cottage Cheese pg. 749
Sirniki pg. 749
Cottage Cheese Sandwich spread pg. 750
Cottage Cheese Pancakes pg. 750
From Homemade Cottage Cheese pg. 750
Cup Cheese pg. 750
Dutch Cheese Spread pg. 750
Potted Cheese pg. 750
Easy Longhorn pg. 750
Neufchatel Cheese pg. 750
Colby Cheese pg. 754
Monterey Cheeses pg. 754
Montoure Cheddar Cheese pg. 754
Proffesor Montoure’s Deep Fat Fried Cheese pg. 756
Roquefort Cheese pg. 756
Blue( bleu) Cheese pg. 756
Growing Bleu mold starter pg. 757
Italian Cheese pg. 757
Twenty Minute Cheese pg. 757
Cheese A L’Obispo pg. 757
Carmels pg. 758
Quick substitute for Sour Cream pg. 759
Real sour Cream pg. 759
Sour Cream Gravy pg. 759
Sour Cream Cookies pg. 759
Strawberry Banana Buttermilk pg. 761
Orange Honey Buttermilk pg. 761
Buttermilk Coleslaw Dressing pg. 761
Buttermil Vegetable Soup pg. 761
Buttermilk Raisin Soup pg. 761
Buttermilk Porridge pg. 761
BPO Ice cream pg. 762
Vanilla Ice cream pg. 762
Fruit Mousse pg. 762
Ice cream Sandwiches pg. 762
Neopolitan Ice cream pg. 762
Applesauce ice cream pg. 762
Milkshake pg. 763
Low fat ice cream pg. 763
Frozen Yogurt pg. 763
 

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Comments on "basic farm cheese" p 753 (9th ed.). Plus some
other comments, which may be out of date...

I started off using Fankhauser's cheese site - it has pictures
and lots of "what if" and detail.
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html
I've made the "basic hard cheese" 4 times. I use half raw
goats milk, half store bought milk, since our goat doesn't
produce enough
This recipe is very similar to your basic farm cheese.

Step 1.5: I innoculate the milk with yogurt about 8-12 hours
before cheesemaking, and let it sit out (covered). I've used
both store bought and homemade yogurt. In your recipes later
such as colby and cheddar, you have them pasturize the milk
before adding the culture - I don't think that's neccessary or
useful. When I get some fancy specialty cheese culture,
I'll use that, but the natural organisms in the milk will add to
the complexity of the flavor... well, I think, but I'm a total
beginner here! Anyway, I add the yogurt starter so I don't
rely on the "luck" you mention in your discussion on culture
on page 752.

Step 3: "real" cheesemakers imply that it's critical that you
buy proper cheesemaking rennet. I've been using the junket
rennet tablets which are less strong. The difference was
very confusing to me as a beginner. I use 1/4 a junket rennet
tablet for 1 gallon milk. I believe you recommend 1 tablet for
2 gallons milk. Mine sets in about 1 hour, step 4 says 20
minutes. Next time I'll try 1/2 tablet (your ratio) and see
what difference it makes.

Step 6 - 9: I heat directly on the stove, over low heat, in a
heavy bottom pot, stirring constantly very gently. I count
my time from the time I turn the heat on low.

I heated to 98 and the total heating and holding time was
40 minutes, and I got that rubbery stuff. We'll see how it
turns out in a couple of months...

BUT for a couple of the cheeses I only heated to 95, and
the total heating/holding time was just 20 minutes, and the
cheese has a firm but creamy texture right away... it's quite
eatable fresh. We just age it a week or so. Not ultimately
as good perhaps but good for the impatient.

Step 10 - you can make ricotta out of the whey. It's a miracle.
This clear liquid and yet hiding in the whey from a gallon of
milk, is about 5 oz. ricotta.

Step 11 - Fankhauser has 2 teaspoons of salt for 1 gallon milk.
Your recipe calls for 6 teaspoons for 2 gallons. Not sure on
this... I'd have to divide a batch in half and compare
side-by-side.

Step 12 - I only let it drip a little while, maybe 20 minutes
(while I get the mold ready)

Step 13 - For a mold I use the cut-out barrel of a 2 liter pop
bottle. A 1lb. coffee can fits perfectly in it too. I put the
contraption in a big pot in the fridge.

Step 14 - Fankhauser has you salt the outside of the cheese.
This might keep mold off...
I press in the fridge, and dry in the fridge.


Ricotta

Again, I refer you to Fankhauser's site. I've read the recipes
a couple of other places but this is the simpliest.

1. Let the whey sit out overnight (to get more acid).
2. Heat slowly to about 180 degrees, not letting it burn.
3. Strain out the ricotta.

It takes forever to heat, perhaps since I worry so much about
burning it; a double boiler would be a good idea.
You have to be careful stirring as the ricotta magically appears
not to break up the curd.
It may help to cool the ricotta/whey before straining, I'm
usually too impatient.
It's really fine particles and annoying to strain, takes forever.

We use the ricotta on pizza, yum! Also made rolls filled with
ricotta, turnip greens and garlic. And we used some in a
pasta dish, with spinach, gave it a creamy texture/flavor.
So far I think we enjoy the ricotta more than anything else!

Feta

My next plan is to make Feta. I believe this is very easy,
and the recipe is almost the same as the basic cheese,
except you don't heat the cut curd. And of course you put
it in salt water to cure. Hopefully I'll someday get my
chapter and find there's a feta recipe already there for me
to review :)
 

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We bought a very large bale of alfalfa from a neighbor who grows hay for a living. The price was half because it was a broken bale. We hand loaded parts of it in the pickup and are feeding twice a day from that. Not a good idea as it falls apart easily. Went back to pellets for feeding at night in stalls.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Printed to date.

Thanks Lisa and Narita for your input. Lisa, nothing is "out-of-date"! It's all helpful info for me. Gettin' hot here in Arizona, Narita. Are you struggling, like me, to keep the garden and orchard from burning up?

Gratefully,
Carla
 

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Here is the list of recipes that haven't been tested yet, that are in the 10th chapter but not the 9th edition. The page numbers of the 10th chapter are listed before each recipe.

17- Canned Goat Chunks
61- salt Cure for Feta Type Cheese
64 - Brie Cheese
64- Milk Paint
 

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<u>Salt cure for grating cheese</u> Rating- ? I have done this- in fact, we learned it from Carla's book. The cheese kept well. The problem I had was that my cheese never turned out to be all that tasty most of the time, and the salt cure is more of a technique. You have to have good cheese to start with to have good grating cheese. But yes, it does preserve and dry out the cheese to a grating consistency.
 

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<u>Garlic Dill Cheese</u>Rating-5, depending on the cheese and herb combinations. Dill, basil, oregano, and garlic is an especially good combo.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
We just had a great downpour, Narita! I've got carrots and lettuce growing under the shade of the mesquite tree and the bird of paradise bush. Is that what you mean by "little seeds"? The cucurbits are wonderful in the desert. Everything I plant grows: watermelon, squash, cantaloupe, cukes, zukes... And sunflowers, oh yes. The legumes are all doing fine too: beans, peas: "Big seeds," right?

Rebekah, progress is being made! Thanks for the updated list.
Gratefully,
Carla

Printed to date.
 

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Goat Milk Ice Cream pg. 66 10th ed This is definately a keeper! Very rich and good! I don't have an ice cream freezer so had to do the freeze/stir/freeze method. It did freeze very hard so next time I serve it, I'll take it out BEFORE dinner to let me get a spoon in edgewise :) This also was good before it was frozen! Almost took half out to eat as a custard instead of ice cream!

Ice cream in general Was caught with my freezer empty of ice cream last week with an ice cream-loving friend coming over and temperatures in the 90's! Made a batch using "left overs" so to speak. I combined milk (goat of course!), sugar, leftover vanilla yogurt and a pint of strawberry/rhubarb jam in the vitamix, whirled it up and froze in a tupperware. This turned out great! The jam added most of the sweetness plus the fruit taste. (It was also a GREAT way to get my kids to eat the jam since they hated it on toast!! If only they knew.....) I believe the yogurt kept it from freezing to hard since it was not difficult at all to get out of the tupperware (unlike the previous recipe). I'd do it again since I have gooseberry jam that my kids aren't fond of either :D

Shep
 

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More on basic cheese p 753 (9th edition)

I used your recommended junket level, which would be 1/2 tablet
for 1 gallon milk. Not much difference; took a little less than
an hour to clean break, so it might save a few minutes.

Not sure if you can keep and reuse the rest of the tablet...
haven't tried this yet...

I also tried your recommended level of salt. It tastes fine to
me (though just did do a taste test on the feta so my saltiness
perception may be turned down). I think you recommend
6 teaspoons, I suggest "4-6 teaspoons" since some people like
less salt.

The cheese with these two changes seems a little more rubbery
but as I understand that's more likely to be the heating step.
Too many variables!

I like salting the outside though. In two or three days in the
fridge it gets a hard rind. Then I wrap it in plastic wrap, the
rind softens nicely. I got some wax but it's such a messy step
I hate to bother...

Most or all of the cheesemaking books I've read say that ricotta
is made with the whey right after cheesemaking, and requires
vinegar. I added some vinegar to the whey for one batch of ricotta
and I didn't like the flavor. Also, the last batch I think my
whey sat out a little long (and the house is warmer now too...)
and the ricotta flavor is a bit off.

I did make the feta, it's still curing. The flavor is pretty
bland so far, it's just very salty. I'm disappointed...

Next: Mozarella. And I'm getting another milk goat so will be
able to make cheese much more frequently!

Lisa
 

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Here are some recipes I tested, all from the 10th edition:

page 38 (I can't remember if I did this one or not!!) Creamy cheese rated 5
quick sour cream rated 3
quick sour milk rated 5

page 48 vanilla yogurt rated 5
page 48 yogurt fruit drink rated 5 (I like to put different kinds of berries in this, too)

page 52 saved the sour milk vinegar clabbered cheese rated 3

page 53 cottage cheese rated 4

page 57 WSU extension cheddar cheese rated 2

page 60 ice cream sandwiches (we like to use cookies the best) rated 5
 

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p3, middle of right column; around here show quality registered
dairy goats, in milk (gallon a day range), *start* about $200 -
doe kids generally more.

p4 - goat butter - the 9th edition, I believe, says goat butter
has no flavor, and I agree with that! I think we'll have to keep
buying butter, even though I can probably get enough for our
use, we don't like it. I've heard that culturing the cream
gives a little flavor, and one time the cream got a little off,
and I think the butter did have more flavor, but I haven't tested
it fully.

p5 - left top; 25 goats and raise offspring plus 25-35 calves??
on p14 you say it takes two goats to support one calf.

p5/6 - you should mention the Fias Co Farm website, it's a
wonderful resource for medical info on goat care. Especially
the photos of birthing.

p7 - dairy goat breeds

Toggenburgs should get their own bold heading, they certainly
don't belong in with Lamanchas (sorry, I'm prejudiced, I'm
fussy about ears :)

The Oberhasli is not a new breed. Originally it was "swiss alpine" and it was renamed. Alpines are really all french
alpines. Oberhaslis are slightly smaller than some other full
size dairy goats, one reason I like them.

p7 - side note on cashmere - Someone I know has a couple
of cashmere goats, I believe the breed is called "American
Cashmere". However, "cashmere" really is a fiber type, which
can come from a variety of goat breeds. I have Pygoras, and
some Pygoras produce a fiber that can legally be sold as
cashmere.

Other Pygora types produce a mohair-type fiber. Not sure if
the term "mohair" can legally be used for this or not; since the
Pygora is an Angora cross, I don't see why not.

Pygora fiber, like cashmere, is produced along with long guard
hairs. The fleece can be picked/combed/brushed to get just
the soft fiber. Or it can be sheared (it's much, much easier to
shear than sheep, easy to do with electric dog clippers). In
this case you have to removed the guard hairs, otherwise the
spun yarn has little wires sticking into your skin. It seems tedious to do by hand but I hear of people who don't seem to
mind, they watch TV or something. I can't, but I may just not
have the technique down. There are a number of companies
that have machinery to remove the guard hairs, it cost about
$4/pound which is a lot of fleece (I got about a pound of
fleece from one goat in one year). They did a great job and
the fiber is incredibly soft. They say it's too warm to use
alone, your head will overheat in a pygora hat - we'll see.

OH in case you didn't notice I think you should mention the
Pygora breed. This is an Angora/Pygmy cross that's been
bred for 10-20 years now. They are smallish, fleecy, friendly
goats, a good starter goat since they are sturdy like pygmys.

p 8 - Dwarves

I have a Miniature Oberhasli; one of several new breeds being
developed and standardized by crossing nigerian dwarfs and standard size dairy breeds. I was thrilled to stumble across
this on the internet, since I wanted a milk goat that wasn't too
big, but the Nigerian Dwarfs I'd seen were too small - I wanted
something that looked like a goat, not like a chihuahua :)
see: http://www.minidairygoatassoc.bizland.com/
I hope all the Nigerian Dwarf breeders out there forgive me!
I'm sure you have lovely goats...

p8 - butting order
This is good, but I'd make this even stronger; introducing a
goat to another one is a scary and horrible experience for a
beginner; they look like they're going to kill each other.

Also, I don't think the naturally polled/infertile belongs in the
middle of this section.

p10 - we feed grass hay since that's what we grow ourselves
and it would be silly to buy hay. So we have to give a little
more grain. Grain supplement should be 16% protien.
We were giving COB (corn, oats, barley, plus molasses) which
is just 9%, and only one big meal plus a small snack. When
we added black oil sunflower seeds for more protien, and
increased the evening feeding, she went from 2 1/2# to 3 1/2#
for the morning milking.

p10 - Questions to ask before you buy a goat

Great list! I just bought a goat. Some additions, that I asked
or wished I'd asked:

- when and with what was she last wormed
- what was her feed; what type of hay, what type of grain, and was she on pasture

ALSO: we just got a milker and she got sick. Be very careful
bringing a goat home; watch her diet carefully; don't let her
pig out on grain or pasture. At the first sign of scours, take
her off grain and off pasture right away, and give her probios.
This may prevent other bacteria from getting in. We finally
had to give antibiotics. She got so thin and weak that we
stopped milking and so are wasting the rest of the lacation.
Be careful about deciding to buy a goat in milk.

p11 - many people give baking soda free choice, I believe so
the goats can regulate their rumens themselves.

p11 - Goats in heat
I hear that if there's no buck, you may not be able to notice
if your does are in heat

p11 - keeping your own buck

Young bucks are much less smelly than old bucks, smaller,
and more gentle tempered. A reasonable strategy is to buy
a cheap buck in spring, breed him, then eat him before he's
a year old.

We ran our buck with the three does last fall, and never saw
any hanky-panky. The down side was *no* idea when the
does were bred. We did barn checks every night starting the
end of February, one doe gave birth March 12, the other not
til April 24. All that time I couldn't go off for the weekend
and leave DH alone, since who knew when birth would happen.
This year we'll separate and know the due dates!

p14 - for our milk goat, we separated at night starting about
7-10 days old, when we started to milk daily. They did just
fine. Our Pygora, at about 6-8 weeks I decided to try milking,
and started separating the kids at night. Holy hell broke out!
Our wether still has a squeaky voice from the horrors of being
two stalls away from his mom. Better to start separating at
night when they're younger.
The Pygora wasn't too hard to milk for a first freshener, her
top day was 14oz (once a day milking) but she dropped to
6oz a day and it wasn't worth it. Might do much better if
I start soon after kidding, though.

p14- lamb nipples - they do have the kind now that adjusts the
pressure. They cost more (of course)

p 14 - sexing kids
We announced to the world our first kids as two doelings.
VERY embarassing to have to later say whoops, we have a
buckling and a doeling.
For people like me, you might want to point out that both sexes
have nipples. The testicles weren't visible on our fuzzy babies
when holding them up for exam, we just noticed them later, when they were standing up. Now we check for a vagina
right under the rectum. We checked the second set of
kids *very* carefully after that first mistake...

p14 - castrating
I hear often with Pygoras not to castrate until they are two
months old, to give their urinary tracts time to develop. If
you castrate too young, they say, they are even more prone
to urinary calculii, painful and require surgery to treat.

I think you talk more about castrating in another section - intro
to animals - and you should reference that section here, there is a lot more to say.

You should also mention disbudding the kids at 1-2 weeks.
I think you discuss the horns issue also in the intro section,
a cross-reference would be useful.

Also, the normal regimen that I've been recommended by
numerous sources is a BoSe shot (selenium) within a day of
birth, and CD&T vaccination within a few days.

Finally - registered animals need to be tattooed in the ear
(or tail web for Lamanchas). It's not difficult to do.

---- stop at bottom of page 14 ----
 

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When our doe had scours, someone recommended Kaopectate.
In the store I checked ingredients and this contains the exact
same active ingredient as Pepto bismal - Bismuth subsalicylate.

Based on the name, in the past it may have contained kaolin
and pectin but it doesn't any more.

10th ed. p 28 mentions kaopectate/pectin and kaolin.
 

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Yogurt cream cheese 10th ed p 39 - rated 5. I like the
texture in about 24 hours.

Frozen yogurt 10th ed p 50 - rated 4, it came out more like
sorbet and not creamy (we did it in the freezer). We used
sugar instead of honey, and just vanilla - fruit might be better.
But we'll probably make this a lot this summer since it's so
easy, tasty and refreshing.

I wish there were more yogurt recipes in the book!

Lisa
 

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SAVORY CHEESE....on mozarella.....page 54...says to use it on any soft cheese and I make a lot of mozarella....It is ok....would say 3 or 4..but we really like to knead in a combination of chopped parsley, chives, garlic, and a little black or red pepper.

also good is a PEPPER JACK TYPE of cheese..only I use mozarella.....and when I get to the kneading part of the recipe I use chopped cayenne or jalapeno..use plastic bags or plastic gloves to protect your hands...and my menfolk around here LOVE it! Good for pizza, or sandwiches or just good with crackers or eating fresh.

VINEGAR RICOTTA is good too. I say a five for sure on that one! Page 56...I use lemon juice instead of vinegar but either will work! It sticks quite easily so keep stirring and use the heaviest pan you have that is non-reactive with the milk. Stainless steel with a copper clad bottom is the best! I made homemade egg noodle dough the other night...and cut it out with my round cutter..then put some ricotta mixed with garlic, parsley, parmeson, an egg, some dried bread crumbs, oregano, basil, and then folded it over and sealed the rounded edge. Put them in a pan with tomato sauce and more italian seasonings...and then when I was finished putting the RAVIOLIS in the pan(actually a glass pyrex 9"x11") then I poured more sauce over the top! They were really good and I made so many of them that we had them for two different meals. Just use the egg noodle recipe and roll the dough out thin! Good stuff and a cheap meal!

Oh...another thing about mozzarella...if you want to grate it easily..it is easier to freeze it first. When it is just barely beginning to thaw it is much easier to grate than when it is first made!

CARLA'S BASIC ICECREAM...is the one that I use. In the past few weeks..since the cow is really producing...LOL...I have made fresh strawberry icecream by adding pureed strawberries to that recipe. 5...pg..65

Also have made....MINT CHOCOLATE CHIP ..To the basic recipe you can also add peppermint oil...green food coloring if you wish..and a couple of handfulls of chocolate chips! I doubled this recipe but only did one and a half times the eggs! I figured that 9 eggs in a 6 quart freezer full of milk and cream was enough! I have one of those big ole gallon and a half icecream freezers. I use the top pourings off all of the milk I have in the fridge(mostly cream) then add the rest of one of the gallons of milk. I have a jersey so this icecream is really rich! Lots of different things you can do...besides the strawberry or mint chocolate chip......you can also make it with crushed candy bars in it....or malted milk balls crushed in it are good....or peaches chopped up.....or a combination of hersheys syrup, marshmallows, chopped pecans, and chocolate chips..for a rocky road type! Never met an icecream that I didn't like....heeheehee!

Blessings all! Nan
 

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Chevre p54 10th edition - 5! This is great. Though - I didn't
have buttermilk so I made it with homemade yogurt (1/2 cup
per 2qts goat milk), and I didn't have "real" rennet so I used
junket, I think 1/2 tablet. We ate it cumbled on salad, even
12yo daughter liked it.
Then tried it with some mesophilic starter and less junket,
used 1/2 tablet for 1 gallon milk. That came out kind of like
real italian mozzarella, the tender white moist cheese.
Took part of it, crumbled, added salt, and pressed overnight
and that came out kind of feta-like.
So far it's not something I could use like cream cheese but
maybe if I had buttermilk I could :)
Making third batch now; this time I salted curd before
draining. I *really* like this recipe!

Lisa
 

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I was surprised to find that when I improvise a double boiler
by using a smaller pot in a bigger pot, it's much, much quicker
to heat up milk for cheese, ricotta or pasturizing than using
a heavy bottom pot over low heat. Like from 45 minutes
to 10 minutes or less.

Lisa
 
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