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Our rescued Pyrenees Carter has had some problems with his back legs. He has intermitent lameness and is very touchy about his whole back end. Our vet x-rayed his hips and the joints in the back legs and didn't find any problems so they assumed it was the sciatic nerve, tried an anti-inflamatory med which upset his stomach so they gave him prednisone which really helped a lot. He still has some lameness off and on though and is still kind of touchy. Cricket was up from Alabama not that long ago and she felt along his spine and said that one of his vertebrae is luxated (not sure if that is correct terminology or spelling). She suggested a chiropractor. The problem is that finding a good human chiropractor is bad enough. Finding an animal chiropractor is 10 times harder. I have been surfing the web and thought I'd run a few things past ya'll. Below is some stuff I copied off a website that talks about a hand-held device that moves the vertebrae rather than manipulations. Carter is SO wild and crazy that I can't imagine if you had to get him to lie down to try to manipulate him. I'm really in early stages of asking questions. I figured I would also talk to my vet and possibly talk to my own chiropractor (who I have not had to visit in ages). Any thoughts on the use of this device below? There seem to be two schools of thought on animal chirpractics - one using manipulation, one using this device. Pros? Cons? I have found two places within an hour's drive, one that does standard manipulation, one that uses the device below. Those are the only two choices unless I go about 2 hrs away or unless I somehow find someone closer not listed on any sites I've found. Any other ideas on how to find someone?

It is one of those websites where it doesn't seem like the pages are changing when you change pages so I'll cut and paste to get the idea below.

http://www.vomtech.com/




What does the hand-held device do to my pet?
The device reduces the subluxations present in the joints of your pet. It cannot create a subluxation in your pet. It can only flip the neuronal switches that are turned off, on. It cannot flip a switch off.
It provides very accurate and precise motion to specific areas of the pet's spine and if a subluxation is present, it can detect and reduce it quickly and without pain or injury. It can confirm that the neuronal subluxation is reduced even if it is not associated with an anatomical listing.




Can the device and VOM harm my pet?
NO! NO! NO!
The beauty of the VOM Technology is that it provides the exact amount of force to the subluxated joint needed to reduce the subluxation without having to induce a lot of motion.
It is motion that can potentially injure the animal: torsion, twisting, mass movement, etc. inherent in manual adjusting techniques.
The device trades motion for speed to maintain the force needed to reduce the subluxation through Newton's Second Law of Motion (FORCE=MASS X ACCELERATION).
In over 35,000 animal adjustments including pets with fractures, tumors and acute spinal diseases, the animal has yet to be injured with the "device". (NOTE: Sometimes the adjustments may cause some minor pain or discomfort but does not produce enough movement to cause injury).




Why not just use your hands like
other Veterinary Chiropractors?
Because our hands are too slow. The fastest an excellent veterinary chiropractor can move a joint under optimum conditions and patient cooperation is 80 milliseconds. The animal's natural reflexive resistance to adjustment is 20 milliseconds or 4 times faster. This demonstrates the need for patient relaxation and cooperation and is the reason that excellent techniques is imperative for success using manual adjusting. Conversely, the device fires at a rate of 2-4 milliseconds, which is 5-10 times faster than the animal's ability to resist adjustment. The patient is always adjusted, every time, all the time, whether they want to or not, in any position, attitude or mood.




Can the same device be used on horses
and small animals alike?
Yes. In fact, the device allows the veterinary chiropractor to set the amount of force he or she would like to apply to the animal. Sometimes, depending on the size and weight of the horse, the practitioner may want to consider using a device specifically designed to treat the equine called the Equine Adjusting Tool, or E.A.T. This tool was developed by Dr. William Inman in order to deliver adequate force to these larger animals.




VOM Dual Adjusting Device


The VOM Dual Adjusting device is the basic tool in the VOM Diagnostic and Treatment Technology and Veterinary Neurologic Adjustment Procedures. It can be used on all animals from a parakeet to a draft horse and delivers exacting forces from 0.0lb to 93.5 lb/millisecond.
 

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I have not seen or heard of this devise before. I would say used by someone with experience you shouldn't have a problem.

I think either type of chiropractics should give your dog some relief. I would pick what is most comfortable for you and see if it helps. Any chance you could try both? That way you can see which the dog is more comfortable with and which treatment seems to last the longest.
 

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Ive had those devices used on me before and they work great for their intended purpose

That purpose is to relieve the stress on your wallet by removing your money

Other than that I couldnt see where they did anything at all other than make a little noise

Anal gland compaction can cause lameness and weakness also, and can be treated at home. Does his tail droop?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Bearfootfarm said:
Anal gland compaction can cause lameness and weakness also, and can be treated at home. Does his tail droop?
He carries his tail up over his back. It is almost always up in a curl and rarely droops.

So how do they manipulate a wild thang? :shrug: He's tons easier to handle now than he was when we got him but he's still not the kind of dog to just lay back and let you do things to him. It's a major challenge just to brush him! LOL!
 

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My old chiropractor used one of those. I really think it is meant to be in the hands of somebody who went to college for seven years learning about anatomy and manipulating the spine. I wouldn't use it. If you know where the subluxation is, just point on it with your finger, and cover that hand with your other hand. Say prayer and hold the position for several minutes. If it is going to work, the muscle will relax and the vertabrae will be able to slide back into position. Your vet probably knows a vet chiropractor, or can find out who does it. My old chiropractor used to work on animals through a vet's office (and he adjusted my standard poodle's back), but the state will now only allow a vet to work on animals. When you find one, don't worry about your dog's wiggliness, the vet will be used to working with energetic animals, worried animals, etc.
 

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Quackery (sorry :shrug: ) The device is generally used by vets who have attended VOM training. The training costs a grand or two and is held over a long weekend. Upon graduation you are deemed a "Certified Veterinary Chiropractitioner".

http://www.avcadoctors.com/search_for_avca_certified_doctor.htm

While I have mixed feelings about chiropractic, the above link will give a starting point.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you! I really appreciate your input. Before logging on I had just gotten off the phone with my SIL who has had some chiropractic training as a dr of osteopathy (spelling?). She said that back problems that can be helped by a chiropractor usually would resolve on their own with sufficient rest and possibly anti-inflamatory meds. If it doesn't, then it probably needs more than a chiropractor can do. She said most people aren't willing to wait that long for healing so they go to a chiropractor. I will probably visit my own chiropractor and vet before making a decision. My own chiropractor teaches at the chiropractic college and is very careful with treatment. Before he would do anything for my back, he wanted a consultation with a neurologist because of the symptoms I was having. Turns out it was a slipped disc and he was able to fix it after 3 mo of physical torture, I mean therapy, failed to make any improvement. Thanks again and I'll keep on researching!
 

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I'm not a chiropractor person. Tried it once.

Years ago, a friend's 6 month old puppy fell. The vet's x-ray showed a break in the back and he suggested the puppy be put down.

Friend took the pup to her chiropractor. The dog had a couple of sessions - after hours, since the fella was only licensed for humans.

The dog died when he was 15 years old!
 

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Personally, I used to think chiropractors were quacks too. But after an accident and suffering for over a year and being unable to simple things- like holding a cup of liquid without dropping it and lots of pain- it was not getting better and my insurance said they were not paying anything so I went to the doctor and tried heat, massage, pain pills, anti-infamatories and muscle relaxers to no avail. My husband was designing a kitchen for a husband and wife who were chiropractors and they offered to talk to my insurance company and help me. I was very cynical. Well they did help. I was surprised to find that the issue was not in my shoulder as I had thought- but in my neck and upper back. After the first treatment- there was already improvement. In a few months, I was back to normal. They did want me to continue, but I was back to normal again and thought it was not needed. I should have listened as a couple months later, my neck started in somewhat (tightness and needing to be cracked alot)- though not as bad as before. I will probably go back when I get insurance again- but since it is not affecting what I do nor causing pain, I am in no big rush. So no- time and anti-inflamatories does not take the place of a chiropractor and they can do more than the doctors without surgery.

longshadowfarms said:
Thank you! I really appreciate your input. Before logging on I had just gotten off the phone with my SIL who has had some chiropractic training as a dr of osteopathy (spelling?). She said that back problems that can be helped by a chiropractor usually would resolve on their own with sufficient rest and possibly anti-inflamatory meds. If it doesn't, then it probably needs more than a chiropractor can do. She said most people aren't willing to wait that long for healing so they go to a chiropractor. I will probably visit my own chiropractor and vet before making a decision. My own chiropractor teaches at the chiropractic college and is very careful with treatment. Before he would do anything for my back, he wanted a consultation with a neurologist because of the symptoms I was having. Turns out it was a slipped disc and he was able to fix it after 3 mo of physical torture, I mean therapy, failed to make any improvement. Thanks again and I'll keep on researching!
 

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I also had some conditions I didn't like living with. I started taking food (codex) grade diatomaceous earth (DE) daily and got rid of them and more.
 

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Hi, my dog Sarah a border was wild about the coyotes running at night and tried to get at them, so we had to chain her up at night. She jumped over a fence with the chain still on and almost hung herself. We don't know how long she was stretch but she messed up her neck pretty bad. We couldn't touch her at all and she laid around moaning. We found a chiro that was human and animal certified. She worked on Sarah standing up not lying down and after 3 treatments, you could see her physically relax, Sarah hasn't had any problems that was last year. The device is good in the correct hands, I was told that the chiros that used it had weak hands and needed the extra help to move her bones. I have had it used on me several times and it works but leaves a bruse on the spot of contact. My suggestion keep looking you will find the right person to help your dog get better.

jr05
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Willowynd said:
Personally, I used to think chiropractors were quacks too.
That's where I was too until I slipped the disc in my neck. He actually worked with me on a lot of back strengthening excercises in addition to the cracking. I've also recently discovered that I had an underlying medical condition that led to a lot of the pain. Now that we are getting that under control a lot of my back pain is gone too. I'm pain free for the first time in 20+ years. I hope we can get to that point more quickly with Carter.
 

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We really need to differentiate between animal chiropractic and VOM (veterinary orthopedic manipulation - the ones that use the spring-loaded activator shown in the photo). There is A BIG difference.

As previously stated the VOM practitioners attend a weekend seminar and then begin doing their thing which bears little reseblance to standard chiropractic treatment. They are pretty much laughed at by DVM's and chiropractors alike.

Animal chiropractors (if they are certified) take a course that is in excess of 300 hours. Human chiropractors working on animals is technically illegal in most states...but is still widely done. The biggest problem is trying to extrapolate human diseases onto animals. Often doesn't work. Bone cancer, Lyme disease, hip dysplasia are just of few examples of common animal diseases that cause pain that a human DC probably would not recognize.
 

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I've seen that device before. It is part of a gas grill. They used to be sold for muscle aches or something before they were found out. I gues they moved on to dogs??
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Pyrenees said:
As previously stated the VOM practitioners attend a weekend seminar and then begin doing their thing which bears little reseblance to standard chiropractic treatment. They are pretty much laughed at by DVM's and chiropractors alike.
If most states require the person to be chiropractic and DMV certified, how do these people get away with it?

I got to go to my chiropractor today (thanks to a rambunctious 70 lb of Lab knocking me down a 2' step onto my butt and arm) and he said that the standard chiropractic DMV about an hour from me is one of his students. He liked her a lot and said she really seemed to work hard to get in extra training to help her make the most of her education. She did an extra internship at the college that was above and beyond the required training. Sounds like a good choice.

Not sure if I'll talk to my own vet about it or not. My vet has cancer (not even sure if he'll survive, much less practice again) and I'm not that impressed by the two vets taking over the practice. Neither of them has seen Carter for his leg/back issue anyway. My own vet was still working when we were in for that. My next choice vet (we have been planning to switch but didn't want to do anything until there is something definitive with our old vet) has never met any of my current dogs though she used to work with my old vet so she vetted all of our now past crew of dogs (if that makes any sense). I thought Carter was on schedule for a Sept visit but I checked his records and he isn't due in for his annual checkup until Jan.
 

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longshadowfarms said:
If most states require the person to be chiropractic and DMV certified, how do these people get away with it?
Sorry, I should have clarified...VOM practitioners are DVM's. I don't know off the top of my head if human chiropractors are "allowed" to take the class, though I suspect not many would want to due to the stigma involved.
 
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