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Can we have a thread on non-organic solutions to insect pests?

2K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  LewisKog 
#1 ·
I guess I'm old school, but I get SOOOOOO tired of everybody warning growers against the use of commercial insecticides.

The last internet search I did made me want to do an Elvis Presley to my PC monitor. (Elvis supposedly shot his TV screen when Robert Goulet came on.)

I used to grow yellow crook neck squash by the tubful. But for the last few years, I have had a terrible squash vine borer problem. They kill squash plants. I barely got a mess of squash last year and the year before.

So I Googled things like "How to prevent squash vine borers".

All I got was organic tips like:
1. Plant more squash. They can't destroy them all.
2. Wrap the lower 6 inches of the stem of each squash plant with aluminum foil. Bury the edge of the foil in the soil beneath the plant.
3. Stick a little wire up the hole made by the adult borer in the squash vine and wiggle it to try and kill the larva.
4. Spread diatomaceous earth around each plant. You must reapply it after each rain.
5. Just don't plant squash.

So I Googled "Insecticides to prevent squash vine borers" and I GOT THE VERY SAME RESULTS.

I love bees, birds, and bunnies as much as anybody, but the !@#$%^& organic solutions are typically:
1. Too much work, and
2. Ineffective.

Gimme back my original Sevin. :mad:

(For those who don't know: A few years ago the Sevin® trade name was purchased by the pesticide distributor GardenTech. This year, GardenTech is switching the active ingredient in Sevin® Insect Killer from carbaryl to zeta-cypermethrin, a newer pyrethroid insecticide.)

Some insecticides have been discontinued voluntarily by the manufacturers. But the following have been banned.
1 Acephate
2 Acrolein
3 Alachlor
4 Aldicarb
5 Alpha-BHC; Alpha-HCH
6 Alpha-chlorohydrin
7 Amitraz
8 Anthracene oil
9 Arsen and its compounds
10 Atrazine
11 Azafenidin
12 Azinphos-ethyl
13 Azinphos-methyl
14 Benomyl
15 Beta-cyfluthrin; Cyfluthrin
16 Beta-HCH; Beta-BCH
17 Blasticidin-S
18 Borax; disodium tetraborate decahydrate (only if used as pesticide)
19 Boric acid (only if used as pesticide)
20 Brodifacoum
21 Bromadiolone
22 Bromethalin
23 Bromoxynil butyrate
24 Butoxycarboxim
25 Cadusafos
26 Captafol
27 Carbaryl
28 Carbofuran
29 Carbosulfan
30 Chlordane
31 Chlorethoxyphos
32 Chlorfenapyr
33 Chlorfenvinphos
34 Chlormephos
35 Chlorophacinone
36 Chlorotoluron
37 Chlozolinate
38 Coumaphos
39 Coumatetralyl
40 Creosote
41 Cyhalothrin
42 Daminozide
43 DDT
44 Demeton-S-methyl
45 Dichlorvos; DDVP
46 Dicofol
47 Dicrotophos
48 Difenacoum
49 Difethialone
50 Dimethenamid
51 Dimoxystrobin
52 Dinocap
53 Dinoterb
54 Diphacinone
55 Disulfoton
56 DNOC and its salts
57 Edifenphos
58 Endosulfan
59 E-Phosphamidon
60 Epichlorohydrin
61 EPN
62 Ethiofencarb
63 Ethoprophos; Ethoprop
64 Ethylene oxide
65 Ethylene thiourea
66 Famphur
67 Fenamiphos
68 Fenchlorazole-ethyl
69 Fenthion
70 Fentin acetate; Triphenyltin acetate
71 Fentin hydroxide; Triphenyltin hydroxide
72 Fenvalerate
73 Ferbam
74 Flocoumafen
75 Fluazifop-butyl
76 Flucythrinate
77 Flumioxazin
78 Fluoroacetamide
79 Flusilazole
80 Formaldehyde
81 Formetanate
82 Furathiocarb
83 Haloxyfop-R
84 Heptenophos
85 Hexachlorobenzene
86 Hexchlorocyclohexane; BHC mixed isomers
87 Isoxathion
88 Lindane
89 Linuron
90 Maleic hydrazide
91 Mecarbam
92 Mercury and its compounds
93 Methamidophos
94 Methidathion
95 Methiocarb
96 Methomyl
97 Methyl bromide
98 Mevinphos
99 Molinate
100 Monocrotophos
101 Monolinuron
102 Nicotine
103 Nitrobenzene
104 Nonylphenol ethoxylates
105 Omethoate
106 Oxamyl
107 Oxydemeton-methyl
108 Paraffin oils; mineral oils
109 Paraquat dichloride
110 Parathion
111 Parathion-methyl
112 PCP; Pentachlorphenol
113 Pentachlorobenzene
114 Permethrin
115 Phorate
116 Phosalone
117 Phosphamidon
118 Profoxydim
119 Propetamphos
120 Propham
121 Propylene oxide, Oxirane
122 Pyrazophos
123 Pyriminil
124 Quintozene
125 Silafluofen
126 Simazine
127 Sodium fluoroacetate (1080)
128 Strychnine
129 Sulfotep
130 Tebupirimifos
131 Technazene
132 Tefluthrin
133 Tepraloxydim
134 Terbufos
135 Thiodicarb
136 Thiofanox
137 Thiometon
138 Thiourea
139 Thiram in formulations with benomyl and carbofuran
140 Triazamate
141 Triazophos
142 Tributyltin compounds; triorganostannic compounds
143 Trichlorfon
144 Tridemorph
145 Vamidothion
146 Vinclozolin
147 Warfarin
148 Zeta-Cypermethrin
149 Zinc phosphide
150 Zineb
151 Z-Phosphamidon
 
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#5 ·
Thanks, everybody, for the feedback.

But I guess the answer to my original question is largely, "No." :)
 
#11 ·
I usually agree with your attitudes, Alice, but let me point a few things out:

Many of the discontinued products listed by the OP were taken off the market because safer alternatives became available. Many were taken off because evolution made them ineffective (resistance; that's MotherNature for you)....But many were taken off because the risk of lawsuits has become too expensive...not because they were proven to be dangerous.

The recent case in The Peoples' Republik of Kalifornia against glyphosate is classic-- Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I do have an acute, innate sense of fair play., and this one stinks. A stupid golf course groundskeeper was using the stuff, virtually taking baths in it, and he eventually came down with lymphoma....Some background: 3 in every 1000 people never exposed to glyphosate get lymphoma. Of all the studies done on people who had been exposed to glyphosate, it's still a 3 in 1000 rate...But, as you know, you don't get 5 head every time you flip a coin 10 times, so some studies showed maybe a 4/1000 rate, while some showed a 2/1000 rate.....So, the bright plaintiff lawyers, of course, presented only the studies in court that showed a 4/1000 rate...BUT, the court did not allow as evidence the defense's presentation of the 2/1000 studies! WUWT?.....Not to mention, what if the exposed group really did have a 4/1000 rate? How do we know that the plaintiff's case was the extra 1 and not one of the natural 3 cases?

There's precious little scientific evidence that ag chemicals currently used have adverse health effects when used properly---most certainly not for those consuming the produce.
 
#7 ·
Do they sell clorpirifos where you live? Pretty nasty stuff and has been more regulated recently but it works for what you want. It gasifies after application and works well on embedded critters that would escape contact insecticide.

But it's nasty dangerous stuff, don't let children apply it...
 
#10 ·
No offense intended here, but as this forum's title says: "This forum is for all Organic Farming."

Today's grower doesn't simply wait for a bug or a disease to appear before going down to WalMart for some off the shelf bottle of chemical, but he/she has to be educated in the use of chemicals--even before knowing which one to buy and earning the license to use it. Sometimes that's to avoid killing some beneficial insect, or killing a customer, or killing his own property that he will need to use for many years in the future.
For example, yes, Sevin still works, in some areas and on some bugs, but it has become worn out in many ways--mostly the bugs have just developed resistance and just happily go on eating the plant you just sprayed it on--and now leaving all that Carbaryl for YOU to eat...….

Most farmers today don't just spray--they have to do educated spraying and applicating, with IPM, Integrated Pest Management. This is the first test they take:

Hmmm, maybe it is simpler to go organic?

geo
 
#12 ·
Thanks, Doc. Well stated.

And to geo in mi, I didn't see a non-organic portion of the forum in which to post my question. My question was kind of "can we have an alternate place to discuss non-organic pesticides and herbicides"?

My dad was raised on a farm during the Great Depression---the real one. They saw an ad in the "The Farmer's Almanac" for a device that was 100% guaranteed to kill any type of insect. It cost something like 50 cents, but they ordered it anyway.

They received 2 wooden blocks labeled "Block A" and "Block B".

The instructions said, "Place insect on Block A and smash with Block B."

I guess that was the ultimate organic killer of insects. :)
 
#13 ·
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t get respect. I understand that.

Correlation doesn’t always equal causation. I understand that.

I have older farmer friends with the effects of lifelong exposure to farm chemicals. I have seen what I suspect are the effects in the children and grandchildren of farmers.

It’s simply my opinion. At 65, educated and experienced, I am comfortable expressing opinions and having calm conversations about them. :)
 
#14 ·
So I recommended an insecticide that would work, but a cultural control for squash borers could be growing it under a little insect netting tent or hoop house? Would have to be from the beginning I'd think

My current pipe dream is to enclose my big greenhouse in bug netting. I guess it's more of a plastic rain canopy here in the tropics. But that's a big project, like 1k materials and two weeks free time. Remains in pipe dream stage.

Protected environment is better than chemical control
 
#15 ·
Here is a good overview of 14 ways to prevent/minimize squash vine borer damage. Pretty much all "organic" techniques.

But he gives a good explanation of the insect and damage it does:
 
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#17 ·
Thanks. I was not sure.

Is there any way to move my thread to the correct place?
 
#19 ·
OK. Thanks.
 
#20 · (Edited)
This thread reminded me how I hate bugs, especially on my plants. I have potted plants in my house and some fruit trees and flower bushes on my lawn. I understand if pests are on my lawn plants, but when I found soil mites on my potted plants I was pissed off. However, these bugs aren't the most harmful ones. I tried some soft ways to kill these white tiny bugs, but it didn't really work. I use tough insecticides very rare and usually on my outside plants. After all, I started to google how to resolve my problem with soil mites. Finally, I found some useful ways. One of them was on BumperCropTimes. Thanks to the methods of control and the chemicals that are described in this source, I no longer worry about pests and calmly do gardening for my own pleasure.
 
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