Can any other 'Percentage' goats be registered besides Boers?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by TinaNWonderland, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. TinaNWonderland

    TinaNWonderland Well-Known Member

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    I was just wondering if any other percentage goats can be registered as 'percentage' besides Boers? Just wondering.. :)

    And, other than Kinder goats (Which I love!) are there any other breeds that result from purposely crossing two breeds?
     
  2. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

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    yes to your first question as long as at least one of the parrents are registerd pure i think,
    there are also Pygoras (pygme angora cross) Cashgoras (cashmear angora cross)
     

  3. Freeholder

    Freeholder Well-Known Member

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    There are also all the 'mini' dairy breeds, created by crossing Nigerian Dwarfs with standard dairy goats.

    Kathleen
     
  4. TinaNWonderland

    TinaNWonderland Well-Known Member

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    Cool! I had never heard of the Cashgoras before.

    I'm excited to learn about the mini Dairy goats! You know, I had seen websites mentioning mini nubians and mini alpines, but I didn't know they are actually registered and becoming recognized breeds! (I had sort of though they were goat versions of the CockerPoo and Snickerdoodles! :rolleyes: ) I looked them up and think they are really cool, something I might be interested in having!

    Thanks for the percentage information, too! It looks like the ADGA will give papers for registered dairy goats (Buck or Doe reg. parent) mixed with unregistered. I believe the minidairy breeds have to be registered thru the Mini Dairy Goat Assoc. I understand that the Boer Percentages must have a FB sire. Kind of an interesting thought: If say a Boer buck and Nubian Doe, both registered, had kids, then they would be able to be registered as 50 % Boer on that registry AND with the ADGA as 50% Nubian! Is that right? So technically, if 2 little nannies resulted, one could be used in a Boer 'program' and eventually have American Purebred Boer desendants, and the other could do the same to produce American Nubians! Do I have this right! Kind of a cool concept.

    What about Pygmies? I can't find anything about percentage Pygmies, only the regular registration papers on the club site with no mention of grade or percentages. I'm planning to get a registered Pygmy buck and was wanting to find out if I can get some sort of grade or percentages papers on the kids out of him and my unregistered pygmy nannies. It's fine if I can't, I'm just wanting to find out.
     
  5. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

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    i have no experiance with the Pygme groups so i am not sure but i would think that like any other club they should allow for new stock to come in via crosses and then bred toward their standard,
    contact their people and ask them about it, i am sure they would he happy to explane their methodology
     
  6. TexCountryWoman

    TexCountryWoman Gig'em

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    Accoeding to the rules of the American Dairy Goat Association

    http://adga.org

    "percentage" dairy goats can be registered, or 'recorded' as it is called, with a few rules. First off, no Boer, Spanish, or hair breeds are allowed ANYWHERE in their background. only dairy blood. So here is an example. If you had a grade or mixed blood dairy goat and a fullblood registered buck of any of the dairy breeds, sat Nubian for example, then the offspring would be considered 50% (even if the mom was purebred but no papers). Then you cross that 50% baby with a reg. Nubian buck, you get a 75% recorded grade, and on up. Buck babies cannot be recorded, I think. See the website for the particulars.
     
  7. TinaNWonderland

    TinaNWonderland Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I just rechecked the official rules of registration 2004 on the ADGA website, here is the link to the specific page:
    ADGA Registration Rules 2004

    Rules D thru H are explaining in detail about how to qualify as a recorded grade, American, etc. It doesn't say anything about having 'no non-dairy blood', but specifically says recordation/registration is allowed when one parent is a Purebred or American "and the other is of unrecorded or unknown ancestry." To me, that sounds like unknown could be just about anything. Rule A9 states that the goat must conform to the breed type and gives specifics for each breed, like the Nubians must have pendulous ears.

    Parts of the rules are sort of hard to get a grasp on, like there are 5 rules (D-H) discussing different types of recordation, plus the regular Purebred rules. Also, in rules D-H, 2 of them specifically are for "females only", so I would think the others would allow grade recordation of males under the specific conditions.

    Reading all these rules for the different registrars - ADGA, MDGA, Kinder Goat Assoc., and whatever the Pygmy goat one is called - was really interesting....very confusing on points, but very informative and interesting. Total different ballgame than registering my dogs, let me tell ya! Like the Kinder goats, if using the 'Starter Kit' method, take 5 generations to reach the purebred level; mini dairy goats take only 3 generations (Both of these are coming from original Bucks and Does that were registered). Boer lines have to have a Full Blood or American Purebred to father each generation, but when you start with any other breed doe or unregistered boer doe it takes 4 generations to be American Purebred for the resulting does and the bucks can be registered on the only the 5th generation (and following generations, obviously).

    I still want to find out if they have any recordation/registration for percentage Pygmies, so I think I'll take KSALguy's advice and contact the registering club and ask.
     
  8. TexCountryWoman

    TexCountryWoman Gig'em

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    Here is the page where it states that no Boer blood etc can be in dairy goats that are going to be graded up to purebred:

    http://adga.org/RegistrationNewsAlert.htm

    I inadvertantly bought a beautiful LaMancha cross goat and later found out she was 1/4 Boer. She is an excellent milker, but her offspring cannot ever be graded up to purebred LaManchas no matter how many generations. It just is not ethical. With animal breeding and registration, it is the honor system. And besides that, the organization now implements the use of DNA test with questionable cases. I love my goat but she will just be a milk goat for home use, not a LaMancha breeding program. Fortunately, the other doe I purchased was indeed 100% LaMancha and I am working with her offspring now.
     
  9. KSALguy

    KSALguy Lost in the Wiregrass Supporter

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    they dont paper percent bucks because that would be anti climactic, as you are trying to go towards a certain goal with in the breed, ie: pure'er breeding, to do this its more ecconomical and faster to use the percent does and keep breeing to the pure buck, keeping percent bucks to breed from, from a registerd point of vew slows you down if not stops you dead in your tracks, you dont gain anything breeding a percent buck to a percent doe, and you loose alot breeding a percent buck to a pure doe, you have just waisted her gestation time and time spent raiseing mixbreeds when you could have bred a pure doe to a pure buck and had pure valuble kids,

    thats just the idealisim behind registrations not registering buck of a Percent breeding, they are "supposed" to all be castrated and eaten or used as pets/show/pack animals
     
  10. TinaNWonderland

    TinaNWonderland Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that article Diane!

    Now I am confused again. LOL That article is copyrited 2002-2003 and the one I posted was Copywritten 2004, but the restrictions in your article should be still in effect, I would think. It would be nice if the ADGA would gather allllll this info up in one place so it would be easy to find and understand.

    Okay, so if I now understand this Dairy goat thing right, To be a 50% recordable cross, one parent has to be a registered Dairy goat and the other parent has to look like a dairy goat, if of unknown parentage. So would I need to go ahead and get a NOA thing on the unknown goat before breeding? It mentioned a NOA but wasn't at all specific.
     
  11. TexCountryWoman

    TexCountryWoman Gig'em

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    NOA = Native on Appearance

    It is my understanding that, no, you do not need a NOA doe to start recording kids when the grade dam is bred to a registered buck. The only reason you would want a NOA determination on a grade doe would to be to show her. For instance, if you have a doe that meets all the criteria of a certain dairy breed and you want to take her to a goat show (I believe they have a NOA class or she could be shown with recorded grades nor sure) , then you would need her to have a NOA paper per the ADGA official in order to show her. An ADGA official, judge or officer, someone like that assesses your doe and determines if she is a NOA. This also just "looks good" in the dam section of the registration papers when you record your first cross to a registered buck to get your 50% doelings. The top would say the bucks name with his info and the bottom of the pedigree would have the does name and "NOA" instead of just "grade doe". It may help sales.