[wdcutrsdaughter]

OR people who work with herbs and know some stuff!



Dog Bite---- Do you use plantain poultice to kill infection or do you use comfrey?
I know that comfrey should not be used on puncture wounds because it will heal the outside too quickly.
Yarrow ?
Internally - frequently oregano tea ? garlic? St John's wort tincture?

This question is two part - someone has asked in another forum and got me thinking - they think their bite is infected.

Part two- neighbor has a mean dog and I've wondered exactly how I would treat if we got bit. I realize it depends on the type of wound but I am hoping there are some people here who might have ideas about this and want to share.


(I know the advice to immediately see an allopathic doctor for rabies and tetanus shots, I know, you don't need to lecture that angle, please and thank you very much, this is alternative health forum)

 

[CC Pereira]

Wash and rinse with soap and clean water, get stitches if needed (or superglue and tape shut -- yes, the same is often done at hospitals), then apply aloe gel. Keep clean until healed (this can be done with a clean bandage, which can have aloe gel or other herbal remedy on it, but some air and sunlight every day, at least an hour or two, also helps speed up healing).

Note: I am not a doctor, I just have had a lot of personal experience with natural health and healing. Feel free to get other opinions, from other people, including qualified allopathihc and naturopathic health care providers.

 

[doc-]

I wouldn't mess with unproven treatments for a dog bite, especilly if it's already showing signs of infection. Dog bites involve P multocida and a bite is essentially a puncture wound PLUS- it's usually in the hand and into the tendon sheaths where it's isloated from good blood flow/WBCs & antibodies-- essentially an abscess....

... besides, for the herbals to work right, the Shaman has to know what tune to play on his rattle.

 

[SWTXRancher_1975]

I wouldn't mess with unproven treatments for a dog bite, especilly if it's already showing signs of infection. Dog bites involve P multocida and a bite is essentially a puncture wound PLUS- it's usually in the hand and into the tendon sheaths where it's isloated from good blood flow/WBCs & antibodies-- essentially an abscess....

... besides, for the herbals to work right, the Shaman has to know what tune to play on his rattle.

Anerobic bacteria's dream home basically. If it's a deep puncture that went past the skin there's a solid chance for infection, I wouldn't be adverse to an antibiotic treatment if that's what the doctor wants. Amoxicillin is the typical treatment for this.

 

[Danaus29]

I know someone who died from a systemic infection after a dog bite. The ER doctor didn't wash it or apply antiseptic. It was just stitched and bandaged. The top healed but the underlying infection went into the bone before it was discovered.

Puncture wounds need to be allowed to drain. If this one is showing signs of infection it needs to be opened and flushed, and kept open until the infection is gone. Antibiotics may be necessary.

 

[doc-]

Suturing up an open bite is just turning an open wound into a puncture wound. I bet that doc's car er has been significantly shortened. The malprcttice settlement must have been huge.

 

[Danaus29]

Suturing up an open bite is just turning an open wound into a puncture wound. I bet that doc's car er has been significantly shortened. The malprcttice settlement must have been huge.

It should have been, but some people won't sue when doctors screw up. Sometimes even if they do sue and the family should have won a lawsuit, they still end up with nothing.

 

[GTX63]

OR people who work with herbs and know some stuff!



Dog Bite---- Do you use plantain poultice to kill infection or do you use comfrey?
I know that comfrey should not be used on puncture wounds because it will heal the outside too quickly.
Yarrow ?
Internally - frequently oregano tea ? garlic? St John's wort tincture?

This question is two part - someone has asked in another forum and got me thinking - they think their bite is infected.

A plantain mix (plantain and vinegar) is moreso an astrigent and best used on skin irritations from poison ivy, bee stings, sunburn and the like.
For a puncture wound, I would use water, a little ivory dish soap and alcohol.

 

[wdcutrsdaughter]

@GTX63 rubbing alcohol?
I have several tinctures made from vodka (alcohol) and I do use the white pine one on cat scratches... hadn't thought of that.

I wouldn't mess with unproven treatments for a dog bite, especilly if it's already showing signs of infection. Dog bites involve P multocida and a bite is essentially a puncture wound PLUS- it's usually in the hand and into the tendon sheaths where it's isloated from good blood flow/WBCs & antibodies-- essentially an abscess....

... besides, for the herbals to work right, the Shaman has to know what tune to play on his rattle.

Why do you even bother posting and reading in here if you don't "believe" in anything other than your allopathic western medicine ? WHY?


You aren't funny, you sound foolish.

 

[wdcutrsdaughter]

Imagine, if you will, a doctor is not available. A pharmacy with drugs, also unavailable.


I guess that means we all die. Without the experts right, sad, isn't it?

Maybe I need a cup of coffee, but people who trash talk herbal remedies really get under my skin.
Congratulations, if that was what you were after.

 

[CC Pereira]

Ionic or colloidal silver water is also good for infections -- the hospital used it for my brother when 40% of his body was burned 4th degree (to the bone), and throughout his hospital stay (3 months), skin graphs, etc.

Also, alcohol (rubbing alcohol, everclear, etc.) is good for external infections.

The FDA says only pharmaceutical drugs or surgery can prevent or treat anything, but that is clearly untrue, and intended to benefit pharmaceutical companies, pharmacists, hospitals, surgeons, and the FDA, but generally not patients. For example:

• vitamin C deficiency can cause scurvy, and scurvy can be prevented or treated with vitamin C.
• vitamin E can be used for blood thinning.
• vitamin K can be used for blood thickening (and is used in hospitals for thickening blood in an emergency, or for leukemia patients with thin blood -- I know because this was used for my grandmother for her leukemia when her blood was too thin).
• vitamin D deficiency can cause rickets, which can be treated or cured with vitamin D.

To pretend that natural health care is impossible does not benefit anyone, except for those that make $ from allopathic medicine.

 

[doc-]

Imagine, if you will, a doctor is not available. A pharmacy with drugs, also unavailable.


I guess that means we all die. Without the experts right, sad, isn't it?

Maybe I need a cup of coffee, but people who trash talk herbal remedies really get under my skin.
Congratulations, if that was what you were after.

Look up Life Expecancy among aboriginal societies.

I've had to deal with many pts who self treated dog bites and delayed seeking medical care. It's not pretty. They were very sorry they waited. Remeber the old oil commercial-- "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later." ?

I won't bother making the obvious retort to your other post. Discerning readers already know what I'd say about speaking up and looking foolish.

 

[doc-]

Ionic or colloidal silver water is also good for infections -- the hospital used it for my brother when 40% of his body was burned 4th degree (to the bone), and throughout his hospital stay (3 months), skin graphs, etc.

Also, alcohol (rubbing alcohol, everclear, etc.) is good for external infections.

The FDA says only pharmaceutical drugs or surgery can prevent or treat anything, but that is clearly untrue, and intended to benefit pharmaceutical companies, pharmacists, hospitals, surgeons, and the FDA, but generally not patients. For example:

• vitamin C deficiency can cause scurvy, and scurvy can be prevented or treated with vitamin C.
• vitamin E can be used for blood thinning.
• vitamin K can be used for blood thickening (and is used in hospitals for thickening blood in an emergency, or for leukemia patients with thin blood -- I know because this was used for my grandmother for her leukemia when her blood was too thin).
• vitamin D deficiency can cause rickets, which can be treated or cured with vitamin D.

To pretend that natural health care is impossible does not benefit anyone, except for those that make $ from allopathic medicine.

Several errors in information & logic there....Using nutrient supplements to treat specific deficiencies is not "pharmaceutical treatment" it's just plain replacement.-- and vit K is only given when the bleeding pt is on warfarin or has certain liver/blood/bone marrow dyscrasias-- basically a replacement tx also, not pharmacolcogy.

In regards this topic of dog bite-- topicals, licensed drugs or not, will do little. The problem is deep in the tissue. The stuff can't get there.

Antiseptics (I, alc, betadene, etc) take at least a 20 minute exposure to kill the majority of bugs--- common experiment done in bio lab in cell biology course. Just washing with them does nothing plain water won't do-- litterally washes away contamination-- but not all of it.

Minor breaks in the integrity of the epidermis need no treatment all. Once the injury involves deeper layers, then of the odds of satisfactory outcomes decreases. I think you'll find allopathic tx has the best (but not pefect) record of outcomes, while the none vs alerantive tx outcomes are not discernable-- the old " Do nothing and you'll get better in a week. Take herbs and spices and it'll take seven days to get better."

 

[Danaus29]

Rubbing alcohol on a deep wound? Might as well rub salt in it too. Alcohol BURNS! It's good for disinfection on instruments like tweezers or scissors, or skin before cutting but I wouldn't want to have it poured on a wound. Hubby's doctor told him to use peroxide on a case of badly infected surgical stitches.

I don't know of anything herbal that will clean a wound as well as clean water and soap.

 

[RJ2019]

Pack raw honey into the wound?

 

[Danaus29]

Hubby's doctor who served in Japan during WWII told us of a prisoner that was brought to him. The prisoner had a bad wound. When it was unwrapped the doc found that it was full of maggots. There is a type of fly that was used by the Japanese to clean the dead tissue from wounds.

 

[wdcutrsdaughter]

nevermind I don't care that much.

thanks to the folks who answered honestly what I was asking!

 

[CC Pereira]

Rubbing alcohol on a deep wound? Might as well rub salt in it too. Alcohol BURNS! It's good for disinfection on instruments like tweezers or scissors, or skin before cutting but I wouldn't want to have it poured on a wound. Hubby's doctor told him to use peroxide on a case of badly infected surgical stitches.

I don't know of anything herbal that will clean a wound as well as clean water and soap.

I never said to use alcohol internally or inside of deep wounds, I said for external use. I agree with external use of soap and clean water, which I also mentioned.

 

[CC Pereira]

Several errors in information & logic there....Using nutrient supplements to treat specific deficiencies is not "pharmaceutical treatment" it's just plain replacement.-- and vit K is only given when the bleeding pt is on warfarin or has certain liver/blood/bone marrow dyscrasias-- basically a replacement tx also, not pharmacolcogy.

In regards this topic of dog bite-- topicals, licensed drugs or not, will do little. The problem is deep in the tissue. The stuff can't get there.

Antiseptics (I, alc, betadene, etc) take at least a 20 minute exposure to kill the majority of bugs--- common experiment done in bio lab in cell biology course. Just washing with them does nothing plain water won't do-- litterally washes away contamination-- but not all of it.

Minor breaks in the integrity of the epidermis need no treatment all. Once the injury involves deeper layers, then of the odds of satisfactory outcomes decreases. I think you'll find allopathic tx has the best (but not pefect) record of outcomes, while the none vs alerantive tx outcomes are not discernable-- the old " Do nothing and you'll get better in a week. Take herbs and spices and it'll take seven days to get better."

Errors in information & logic? Nope. Good try though.

I never said that using nutrients to correct nutritional deficiencies was 'pharmaceutical treatment' or 'pharmacology' ... actually it would be naturopathic (natural) not allopathic (synthetic / pharmaceutical). wdcutrsdaughter was asking about natural stuff, not synthetic stuff.

pt? tx?

Maybe I should have been more specific as to internal vs external use. Obviously, if the bite doesn't break the skin, then no treatment is necessary. If the skin is broken, then treatment may need to be both external (such as cleaning the wound with soap and clean water), and internal (such as antibiotics used internally), depending on how deep the wound is.

Natural / naturopathic medicine is actually much better (for the body, and for overall results) than synthetic / allopathic medicine (which may be great for the wallets of people who profit from the use of allopathic medicine, but generally not for patients), almost every time, in almost every case. Not many circumstances really need to be addressed with toxic pharmaceutical drugs or surgery ... not that both do not have a place in medicine, they do ... just not to the extent that such methods are so unnecessarily abused.

I think one should at least try natural medicine, before assuming it doesn't work.

Natural medicine may sometimes take longer to provide results than synthetic medicine, however it is usually worth it, because synthetic / allopathic drugs tend to come with side effects (due to the toxicity of pharmaceutical drugs), which are usually covered up with more synthetic drugs, which often leads to additional and seemingly unrelated health problems.

 

[doc-]

Let me set everyone straight about the difference between standard medical science and "alternative medicine."--

In standard care, treatments are tested against doing nothing &/or against other treatments....The outcomes are systematiclly tabulated and analyzed statistically so that we can see if the treatmnt in question is better than doing nothing, or better than the other treatment, as the case may be...It gives us a measure of reasonable expectation about how effective the treatment is. No tx is perfect. There's always failures, but at least we can see that treatment X will work in Y% of cases.

For alternative treatments, no such studies exist. If they did, we'd have proof they didn;t work, or that they did and then they'd be part of mainstream medicine...This doesn't mean no alternative tx works. It just means that we don't have reproducible evidence of how well it works. We have only anecdotal evidence. That's a pitfall-- Even a severe lung cancer will ocassionally remitt spontaneously.

Alternatives treatments can do one of three things-- help you (we have no proof), hurt you (no proof) &/or delay good treatment-- many, many incidents of that.

Travel at your own risk.