bush hog twisting off PTO adaptor

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by shootingstar, Jul 17, 2004.

  1. shootingstar

    shootingstar Active Member

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    I have a Jubilee tractor I use to bush hog the fields. The problem I have is that everytime I mow, I twist off the PTO adaptor. I have it raised so it mows about 8-10 inches off the ground but it never fails, it will catch on either dirt or brush and will twist the brass adaptor so all the splines break. The other problem I've had is that the coupling that attaches to the pto adaptor has been pushed forward and the splines on the adaptor are pushed forward like gathering of material. I am not sure but I think this is happening when I raise the bush hog to the high positon when heading back to the house. What am I doing wrong? It is a Woods bush hog I bought used and I replaced a bolt I thought might have been the shear pin with a soft bolt but that didn't help. Any ideas? I can't keep buying 3 -$12 adaptors each time I mow like I've been doing for the past two years. :eek:
     
  2. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry if I'm not following you on this one. What is catching on dirt and causing breakage? Did you put a grade 2 bolt in the yoke for a shear pin? From what you said I guess you did. Is the PTO shaft too long and causing binding and putting the weight of the bush hog against the pto shaft. Many of these come from the factory a standard length and have to be cut or they will be too long. You should cut from both halves as it is a shft in a shaft which makes it expand.
     

  3. charles

    charles Well-Known Member

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    Check to see if there is any play in the adapter at either the male of female end. Does it break when you first engage the PTO or when you're just mowing along? If the adapter is tight then my first guess would be that its cheaply made. The shear bolt should easily break before the adapter. This season we broke four PTO shafts using a mower - usually when we engaged. The ones we scavenged or the cheapos we bought just could'nt take the torque. Finally we found a heavy one and no problem. Do you have a slip clutch on this?

    If its really brass and not just colored alloy I'd suspect it to break real fast. Brass is just too soft.
     
  4. Siryet

    Siryet In Remembrance

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    Had a problem breaking shear bolts and tearing uo Yokes on my brush mower and finally found out the shaft was bent. Replaced complete shaft and problem went away.
    Seems I was raising the mower too high and the shaft hit the mower body and bent.
    Maybe..........................
     
  5. uncle Will in In.

    uncle Will in In. Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Ford doesn't have live power take off. If you shove the clutch down, your rear wheels keep turning until the mower blade stops spinning. They sell a little ratchet adapter that goes between the tractor pto and the mower pto shaft. when you shove the clutch down the tractor wheels stop even though the mower is still spinning. Not real expensive, and the Ford tractor dealer may be able to get you one that fits your tractor pto whithout a spline adaptor. The shear pin is right in front of the mower gear box. The shaft stays connected even when the pin is sheared... Next unhook your pto shaft and raise the three point all the way up. Now put the pto shaft beside the tractor pto and see if it is too long when completely raised. If you can't lenghten the top link enough to correct this, take the top link off and replace it with a chain. A chain on a three point mower is really much better than a regular top link, because it will let the rear of the mower float up if the rear tractor wheels go down in a slight dip. Other wise the weight of the tractor is forced down on the rear of the mower. There should be a hole through the mower pto shaft end that slips on to the tractor pto which also has a hole for a pin. Put a hard bolt through both shafts when hooking up. This bolt should not shear. If it does the mower is being raised too high causing the mower shaft to be forced into the tractor.
     
  6. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

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    Are your travel limiting chains in place? If broken or missing the mower can also move too far to either side causeing problems such as mentioned.

    Visit us at the shop talk forum if you have further questions.
     
  7. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    Moopups has a good point. Do you have stabilizer bars or a sway control of some type? You should have brackets on the bottom of where the fenders bolt to the rearend housing. There should be sway control bars or chains that attach there and connect to the hitch pins along with your lift arms. This will stop any side to side motion.
    Uncle Will is right on the money about an overrun clutch is your tractor is like an 8N and the PTO will drive the tractor even with the clutch depressed.
     
  8. Oggie

    Oggie Waste of bandwidth Supporter

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    Would it help to put a slip clutch between the PTO shaft and the brush hog gear box?

    I had a different problem - a powerful tractor breaking shear bolt as quickly as I could replace them. I put in the slip clutch and the problem was solved.

    A slip clutch might eliminate the force on your PTO at the tractor.
     
  9. Timber

    Timber Well-Known Member

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    Couple more of things to look for. On raising the mower does the yokes lock up? Added length of adaptor shorten the degree of workability area. Also see if the pto shaft comes in contact with the bottom edge of the deck. Also you mention that it bottoms out on lifting. In that case Either shorten the shaft or limit the travel on the lift lever.

    Timber
     
  10. shootingstar

    shootingstar Active Member

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    Beeman, the blades catch on the ground as the tractor moves up and down. The ground is uneven in areas or sometimes it just hits a stalk that is to big around and it shears the shaft adaptor. I am not sure if it is a grade 2 bolt I used as a shear pin....I just asked the man at the store if it was the softer bolt and he said yes....so anybodies guess. Where I put it is closer to the yoke on the gear box end....I don't even know for sure if that was the shear pin but according to Uncle Will I now believe that it is. I don't know if the shaft is to long, it is possible, it slides freely but never thought to check if it was to long. I will check that when I unhook it to change the adaptor. Also, the tractor does have sway chains...although I have noticed when mowing on a hillside it does mow over to one side rather than straight behind the tractor. It is a 4ft bush hog. I think some movement is okay isn't it?

    Charles, there is no play in the adapter at either end. The adapter breaks while mowing, after I hit a high spot or a branch or something.....I am not talking mounds of dirt or tree stumps, these are little bumps and some are wild raspberry/rose sticker bushes. I have been buying cheap adaptors from TSC. I asked the guy there if a slip clutch would help and he said no so I didn't spend the $50 to get one, I will the next time I am in the store. And your right, it probably isn't brass but I am a lady and they are shining so......

    Siryet, I recently had the shaft off and I didn't noticed any bends. It slid freely in and out...Did yours have a noticeable bend in the shaft?

    Uncle Will, if I can take the top link off and use a chain, what purpose is the top link? I thought it was solid to hold the mower in place. Making it longer will hold the mover further away from the tractor? You have to forgive my stupidity, like I said above, I am a lady. And for the pto shaft having a hole close to the tractor to slip a pin in....I am not sure...I can't see any because of the guard. I do have to press a button and push the yoke on until the button snaps back out when it is in place.

    Moopups, the tractor does have chains holding the sway bars from moving from one side to the other to far....are they the right length? I don't know, it is an old tractor and someone could have replaced them at one time. There is movement but they would never allow anything to swing far enough to get behind the tires or near the fenders or anything like that. There is just a small sag in the chains when sitting idle.

    Oggie, I am going to try the overrun clutch. I know I had one for an 8N I had years ago but like I mentioned, when I asked the sales guy at TSC if that would help he said no.....I should have gone with my instincts....

    Thanks for all the help. I appriciate your time.

    Lori
     
  11. shootingstar

    shootingstar Active Member

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    Timber, the yokes do not lock up when the mower is lifted, but is sure makes a heck of a racket. When I hear that I automatically push in the clutch and its to late....I've done it twice now, I forget to dis-engage the pto before lifting. This last time though, the shaft was off to one side.... there is still a chance that it could be to long. Hummm, but is still moves freely??? Also, the pto shafts does not come into contact with the deck when raised. I have been able to use the post hole digger without any problems...and of course the back blade does not use the pto but I have not had any problems such as swaying or anything when using that.

    Lori
     
  12. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    You do need an over running clutch and you can get one here http://www.agri-supply.com/catmain/3500005.htm it is item number 31949. After it is installed in the PTO shaft you will need someone with some mechanical expertise ( old farmer with some grey hair) to look at you setup. You may have to cut some of the PTO shaft off When the brush hog is in the mowing position the male portion of the PTO shaft should be at least 5 inches inside the female portion of the shaft and with the engine shut off you should be able to depress the pin at the PTO shaft on the tractor and still be able to move the coupling toward the off direction a couple of inches. When the brush hog is raised you should still have several inches of the male portion of the PTO shaft still inserted in the female portion.
     
  13. Beeman

    Beeman Well-Known Member

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    If you have live hydraulics, you can lift the bush hog without the PTO engaged you might not need an overrun clutch. I'm sorry as I don't know for sure but I know N series tractors don't have live hydraulics and need the overrun clutch.

    As far as the shear bolt goes I do know this. Whether woman or man question old tractor mechanics and parts men. All of the tractor geniuses by me insisted that the bolts they sold were the right ones for the shear bolt on my auger. Well you can really tear the heck out of an auger with a good diesel tractor and more than a grade 2 bolt in the drive shaft.

    I have destroyed bush hogs with an 8N. I beat one so badly the stump jumper and blades came flying out. I never had any problems with shear bolts or anything else.
     
  14. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    The jubilee is a 1953 if it is a true jubilee. Many people think that any of the Ford tractors with the round emblem on the front of the hood is a jubilee. I had one of these tractors in years past and if my memory is correct the tractor has an independant lift only and the pto is still through the clutch. I am fairly certain the tractor needs an over running clutch.
     
  15. shootingstar

    shootingstar Active Member

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    I am pretty sure it is a Jubilee. The gentleman that sold it to me advertised it as a Jubilee, the owners manual (although you can buy those) is a Jubilee and the round emblem on the front says Ford 1903-1953. What is Independent lift and how do I tell if I have it. "pto is still through the clutch" what do you mean by that? I have a lever on the left that I move, and then when I let out the clutch the pto engages. I can lift the bush hog without the pto engaged. The tractor has a hydraulic loader, without down pressure if that makes a difference.

    Lori
     
  16. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    You want a clean break, I have always used grade 5 bolts as shear bolts, lower grades bend before shearing and make a mess of the hole. The bolts New Holland sell for their baler shear bolts are definately grade 5 too. The over running clutch is a good idea and the only thing I haveto add is that you make sure the two halves of the PTO shaft are lined up with the yokes aligned the same. The metric shafts do this automatically so do NH rectangular shafts but I still, after 30 years, screw up now and then and mis-align the square shaft drives. If the yoke (tractor side half) leaves the tractor PTO with one of the bearning caps up, the other end going into the machine has to have the last half of the yoke going in, bearing cap up. Mis-aligned shafts will shake the machine, and tear apart the PTO shaft eventually.
     
  17. Ross

    Ross Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    If the 3pth lifts with the clutch down you have an independant lift. PTO through the clutch means if you step on the clutch with the PTO engaged the shaft stops. Now there are two stage clutches too and I don't know if a Jubilee has one but I suspect not. At a guess I'd say your loader is running off a front mounted hydraulic pump independant of the original tractor hydraulics, but it won't really have an effect on your PTO problem either way.
     
  18. Ken Scharabok

    Ken Scharabok In Remembrance

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    Also check to make sure you are not using too large of a bushhog on it. These small tractors were only designed to handle about a 4' bushhog - and even then, were really designed for sickle bar mowers.

    Ken Scharabok
     
  19. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

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    From the damage referenced, it appears to me that the implement actually has the wrong catagory pto shaft or this is a brush hog for a much smaller tractor. The jubilee is not that overpowered and instead of shearing the PTO each time the mishap should be choking the tractor down. Many people with red belly tractors and those in the jubilee size frequently take the opinion that if the tractor can push it over the tractor can power the implement to cut it up and rarely do they have PTO shaft problems. I doubt that this implement in question has the stump jumper design but the jubliee should not be tearing up a decent made brush hog. We are over looking something that would be apparent if we could see the tool!
     

  20. I'm late, I'm late, no time to elaborate.....

    What 'adaptor' are you talking about? Does your Jub have an 1 1/8" pto shaft, & you are using a little bitty sleeve to make it the standard 1 1/4" pto size your mower needs?

    Those little sleeves are _worthless_ and will never, never, ever hold up to the beating a hog gives them. Forget about it.

    You need the $50-60 adaptor. You might as well get the $60-75 over-running-coupler version - they make them in the double size you need - don't just buy the 1 1/4" version.

    People never know what tractor they have when it comes to an N through the 100 series models. The only way to know is to look on the lump of cast iron below the air cleaner, in front of the foot clutch pedal. There should be some numbers stamped into the cast. Might need to rub ogff grease & paint, as they can be light.... You could really have any of those models.

    A Jub will have live hydraulics (3pt works even with the clutch pushed in) and non-live pto (pto stops _every_ time you push in the clutch to shift gears). This also means the pto & rear drive shaft are locked together whenever you have the pto engaged, so even tho you push in the clutch to stop moving, the hog will continue to spin down with flywheel force & will continue to push your rear wheels forward. The ORC prevents this & makes your tractor much safer. It is a simple ratchet adaptor.

    For any of these better adaptors or ORC, you will need to shorten your pto shaft on the hog. You need to shorten both 1/2's of the shaft an equal amount.

    As to your pto rattling or pushing pins - STOP USING IT LIKE THAT! You could cause several $100's of damage to the shaft, hog, and tractor. It's dangerous too, but no one ever cares about that.... Need to shorten shaft (both sides), and limit how high you raise the 3pt.

    More latter, gotta go.....

    --->Paul