Borrow Pit Rules - Florida???

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by momanto, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. momanto

    momanto SW FLORIDA HAPPYLAND

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    please delete this thread, thank you. thanks to all who responded
     
  2. Snowdancer

    Snowdancer Well-Known Member

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    Get out the deed, see if there is a deeded easement on it. Did you do get title insurance when you bought your place or maybe had an easement search done?

    If you can't find it on your deed, go to the county courthouse and have the clerk help you find any copies of your deed and whoever owned it before you bought it. It will be there if at some point someone deeded away their rights.

    I'm sorry that may not help much but when we didn't find any easements on our deed we went to the courthouse and lo & behold there was 2 from approx 30 yrs before!
    Unfortunately in our case there was nothing we could do, but that doesn't mean you can't fight it. Maybe get one of the Environmental groups involved after you've exhausted all other ways to get them to back off.
     

  3. Cabin Fever

    Cabin Fever Life NRA Member since 1976 Supporter

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    Maybe you should build a 3-acre wildlife pond on your own property.
     
  4. Ken Scharabok

    Ken Scharabok In Remembrance

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    "It Turns Out The 3 Acre Lovely Wildlife Area Pond On One End Of Our 41 Acre Parcel Is An Abandoned Borrow Pit From The 60's"

    No, what you likely had was an abandoned mining pit all along. It had just grown into what you consider to be a lovely wildlife area pond.

    In case you are not aware of it, I am about 99.99% sure the State of Florida own your mineral rights. They have the right to complete erase what you have to dredge it out for phosphate or whatever.

    Contact your local federal government Natural Resources Conservation Agency and get them involved. (May still be called the Soil Conservation Service in some places.) They may be able to prevent the pond from being backfilled. Potential groundwater polution may be an issue here.

    On a couple of occasions I have allowed the county highway department to dump roadside scrapings/ditch cleanouts on low areas of my farm. Lots of interesting (and potential nasty) stuff in it.

    Contact the Florida Sierra Club group also for their opinion.

    Ken Scharabok
     
  5. Darren

    Darren Still an :censored:

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    Ken had some good ideas. I would suggest contacting the Florida agency charged with protecting the environment. The key word is wetland. Ask what regulations permit dumping in a wetland. The other phone call you need to make is to the Army Corps of Engineers. Each district office has a permit section. Play dumb and ask if the highway department has a permit to dump material in a wetland. I suspect you'll get a strong reaction.They have some jurisdiction over wetlands. The Corps is your buddy in this case. I've been in an area where they forced landowners to remove fill they'd placed in a wetland to build up their property. PM me with your geographic location in Florida, central, panhandle, etc. and I'll get the district phone number for you.

    I'm almost certain a permit is required. Find out what those are and ask for a copy of the permits if anyone returns. The fact that they have proof of an easement is probably irrelevant. They'll probably send a land man out to talk to you next. No matter what he says, he has no authority to force you to do anything. There's almost certainly a legal procedure they'll have to go through. Use the time you gain by forcing them to jump through their own administrative hoops to call in the heavy artillary. Highway departments are notorious for dumping material in places they shouldn't. I have a feeling the guys you spoke to are playing fast and loose. Even if they have an easement, subsequent state and federal regulations may have restricted what they can do. The WV DOH got fined heavily in the past for that. The fine was large enough that it resulted in an immediate educational program for all DOH employees.

    Good luck. I think you have an opportunity to unleash the hammer of Thor on the highway dept. The best part is all you have to do is make a few phone calls. You don't need a lawyer. Your state DEP and the Corps has herds of lawyers. You just need to give them something to do. Have fun!

    To assist you in monkeywrenching the highway department, use the following link to get the phone number for the Corps' wetland permit office.

    www.sad.usace.army.mil/contactus.htm

    I'd bet the guys you met were county DOH. Once the Corps gets involved, those guys are going to skedaddle.
     
  6. bgak47

    bgak47 Well-Known Member

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    You might also call the Environmental Protection Agency. Many laws have changed since the 60s. As someone said,the keyword here is ''wetlands''. Ducks Unlimited might also be a source of advice or help. Good luck.
     
  7. Ken Scharabok

    Ken Scharabok In Remembrance

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    "Wetlands". Bear in mind it may not be officially designated wetlands, but just a pit with some growth on the former banks and cattails.

    Ken Scharabok
     
  8. JoyKelley

    JoyKelley Well-Known Member

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    Look for Pond management ( yes I am not kidding) in your area.It is a government agency. I live in fort myers and pond management really helped us out when we had a die off in our pond. Perhaps you could get them to stock ( for free) your pond and then they would have an interest in it's well being............. OK I just called our pond control... She said they are a government agency and you should call and ask for John Cassony and the number is 239 694 5841. Give him a call, he can at least get you started

    Joy
     
  9. Jan Doling

    Jan Doling Well-Known Member

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    Here in Central Fla the St John's Water Management are like pit bulls about "their" wetlands. The agent walked most of our 20 acres and stuck a dirt plug collector down deep in the soil and said that he could tell from plant life, etc whether it was wetlands even during a drought. but don't call them if you have any environmental issues on your own property that you would not want attention drawn to, as these guys lie awake nights worring about whether certain plant life might be getting abused!
     
  10. farminghandyman

    farminghandyman Well-Known Member Supporter

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    it probably would not take much to get classified as a wet land,
    is there any thing that would help on the potential of being abandoned? (for 40 years) a statue of limitations?

    but you may want to look into the "wet land" clause, carefully, as it may be as adverse for you as the state in this case,
    but to dump things I would think there would be some clause that would potently prevent dumping, EPA, as it it is old tar road bed that could be considered hazard materials,

    Take pictures of it to show the wild life use, the beauty, and go to the county commonsense and or state wild life, epa, department of ag NRCS, (should be county office) "farmers".
    (Natural resources conversation services). I think they are the ones who could get the designation of wet lands put on it,
     
  11. JoyKelley

    JoyKelley Well-Known Member

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    Not only that but we have " protected sand" on our property and can't do anything with that small area of our field. ( no kidding )
     
  12. Darren

    Darren Still an :censored:

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    Ken,

    It doesn't have to be "official" wetlands. Even if wetlands are created where none existed previously the feds will consider it wetlands and subject to permitting requirements.
     
  13. Tango

    Tango Well-Known Member

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    In our FL county it does need to be offical. There is a difference between "state designated" wetlands and bottomland. Bottomland is everything from actual wetlands to land that gets swamped and remains wet without the flora. The EPA uses a soil test indicator to determine wetlands but the only protection given here on the Kissimmeee Prairie, is for the "state designated" wetlands per my Sheriff's Office. I had an idiot in a mudtruck dig tire tracks through some of my "bottomland" a few months ago. Before it was over three mudtrucks got stuck on that small piece of land in attempts to tow the first truck out. When it is state protected the response is swift and fierce and costly- $10K a day while one is in noncompliance to homeowners out here. Otherwise you're on your own. Seems to me that a parcel which has been used for dumping previously might not pass the wetlands soil test but it is worth a try. I'd do that first. Good luck momanto.
     
  14. Darren

    Darren Still an :censored:

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    You don't need any paperwork. You don't even need to own the poperty. CALL THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION or its equivalent in your state amd complain. All it takes is a phone call. You don't have to sign anything to unleash hellfire on the DOH.

    Remember the magic word is wetland. Call the Army Corps of Engineers also. I gave you a link to their phone number.
     
  15. Darren

    Darren Still an :censored:

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    You don't need any paperwork. You don't even need to own the poperty. CALL THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION or its equivalent in your state and complain. All it takes is a phone call. You don't have to sign anything to unleash hellfire on the DOH.

    Remember the magic word is wetland. Call the Army Corps of Engineers also. I gave you a link to their phone number.
     
  16. mtman

    mtman Well-Known Member

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    im not shure what your saying you say its at the end of your property is it on your prop. or just over the line if its just over the line you dont own it that would be the same as my neibor using my water if i didnt want him to