Bo-Se or Selenium E?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Laura Workman, Jan 27, 2005.

  1. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

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    I kept reading about Bo-Se shots and how they are necessary in my selenium deficient area. Well, my goat vet is VERY expensive and a pain to get to, plus, I don't like giving shots when it's not necessary. I found a horse selenium/Vitamin E supplement that is a top-dress for feed. I figured out the amount of selenium in the Bo-Se shots, did the conversion for this supplement, and my girls are now on their second round of selenium supplement (first one four months ago). Some will eat it right out of the bucket, others I have to mix it into their grain, but they all eat it. Has anyone else used this stuff? It just seems like a nice alternative to me.
     
  2. Gailann Schrader

    Gailann Schrader Green Woman

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    However you can do it, do it. I just lost an Oberhasli buckling to selenium deficiency. He was born on Monday and died last night. Looked "ok" on Mon/Tues, was completely limp when I got to him last night. Died even though I did all the intervention that was possible. Good Luck! You get used to giving shots. They aren't that hard. Pick up the back leg to squish the muscle together and give the shot in the meaty area. Good Luck.
     

  3. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    When trying to makeup a new mangement like this, not in a bad sense since we all do this, some of the routine things we do like Bo-se is from something someone made up, we did blood testings found it was right on, and now it's common managment...but really put some thought into it. Take into account your selenium in your minerals and your grain, and then topdress. The only but....there is very little selenium going to the babies via the colostrum so you may still need to bolster the kids. I give my kids probios by mouth several times a day for the first few days, perhaps you could find a selenium E paste to use?

    If our kids where getting all the selenium they needed via the colostrum from bolstered dams, than we would not have to give shots to our kids at birth, and we do. So although the amount of Bo-se we are giving is helping the dam from having problems associated herself with selenium defficiency, weak back legs, no more single births, retained placenta etc., it is not enough for her to give to her kids inutero to stop white muscle disease at birth, weak and not able to walk, under at the pastern or even the front foot, weak sucking reflexes, weak tongue muscles with their tongue hanging out at nursing, and the worst, a kid that is apparently fine at birth who suddenly dies with a heart muscle give out. Selenium affects all muscles, we only can see the leg and tongue ones!

    You can circumvent the vet by going to http://cometothefarm.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi folks are "illegally" posting drugs for sale for livestock on there, also you can send in your own bloodtests to your state vet or teaching univeristy without a vet doing it, just find someone to draw blood or learn to yourself, this way you know what the bloodlevel of your goats are during your bolstering and when you are not. Or join a club, adga.org and find folks with good realtionships with their vets who get their drugs at or near cost and split bottles with them. You of course are the one in the end repsonsible for off label use of drugs on your goats, as long as you understand that, most breeders are willing to help. And yes I know that last paragraph is a very unpopular view by some, mostly vets :)

    I am soo lucky, my vet charges me a 10$ office visit, I go to her once a year and purchase most of the stuff I need at one time, during the year when I need something the girls will simply have it there waiting for me. Having a good relationship with your vet is a godsend in the end. Vicki
     
  4. Jen H

    Jen H Well-Known Member

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    Caprine Supply sells a selenium/vitamin E paste formulated for goats and sheep. It smells kind of like bananas, and my herd thinks the stuff is just great. The tube is calibrated for goat and sheep doses, so you don't have to play the "the cow dose is x, so if I divide that by y it should be about right for a goat" game.
     
  5. SilverVista

    SilverVista Well-Known Member

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    Shots really all that difficult to learn to do, and when you have livestock that can cost more to treat at the vet than they are worth at the sale, it can be a skill that makes a real difference.

    Selenium dressed over the feed is not as efficiently absorbed in the gut as selenium that is injected, and a good deal of it winds up on the ground in the manure. If you were to blood test, you may find that a top dress or paste is fine for average levels, but that pregnancy and early kid growth simply demand more.

    The shot in the muscle of the leg is easy, but it's really better all the way around to learn to identify the safe triangle in the muscle at the back of the lower neck. If there is any chance at all that an animal will eventually be used for meat, shots in the leg damage the only decent chunk of meat on a goat. Even if that's not your intention, the neck muscle is a safe, consistent place for shots and easy to observe for post-injection reactions.

    Susan
     
  6. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

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    Thanks for all the information and advice!

    I really do know how to give shots, honest, both IM and SQ. Given lots. I just kind of rebel at the idea of giving them for routine supplementation of nutrients that are normally acquired through ingestion. But hey, that's just me. The gel sounds good too, especially for kids, as Vicki suggested.

    Alas, Vicki, the only vet in our area that does goats and will make a farm call to our place charges about $40, not including an exam or treatment of any kind. The "office visit" charge is comparable. With their exams and tests following the same basic philosophy, it's very easy to run up a huge bill with them. Additionally, their turnover rate is quite high, so just when you're getting to know a particular vet, they're gone and you have to start over with a new one. There are really good goat vets just to the north and south of us, but right here, not so great. :no: I will check out the link you provided, thanks!

    And, since I'm full of excuses today, here's another one regarding breed clubs. I raise minis and Nigerians. ADGA has only this year deigned to recognize Nigerians as the ugly stepchild of the dairy goat breeds, not to be intermixed under any circumstance with any of the "real" dairy goats, which can be intermixed freely under ADGA rules. (One wonders why ADGA admitted the Nigerians at all, other than the registration income.) Of course ADGA completely rejects the minis, so ADGA clubs aren't that attractive to me just now. (Some bitterness creeping out, I guess. :eek: )
     
  7. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about the vet thing. Mine isn't a goat vet, but I was lucky there where two major herds in my area when I started, so she had already been introduced, and then there was me :) She is a well known horse vet in our area and also does alot of cattle herds.

    My biggest beef at the vet is the gals in the front, which come and go with the change of seasons, they want cards on every animal, the girl right now did not think it was funny that the last goats names where goat 1, goat 2, she wanted to charge me $35 for each entry into the compute for each goat name...I looked at her and asked her if the cattle guys have all the names of their 100 cow herds in the computer like that. These are livestock honey!

    Although we do put on a main show every year, and are taking over a second one, I would bet you that half the folks in our club have other breeds that aren't in ADGA. You don't have to join to go to a meeting to see if you even like these people, but it's worth joining, just for the perks, AI classes, parisitology refreshers, 5$ ultrasounds, speakers. It's great. vicki
     
  8. Hank - Narita

    Hank - Narita Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tip about the paste from Caprine magazine. We got ours a week ago but haven't read it yet. We are probably deficient in selenium as we live in the southeast desert.
     
  9. Laura Workman

    Laura Workman (formerly Laura Jensen) Supporter

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    OK, you talked me into it. I'll check out the clubs. :)

    And, yeah, doncha love the "goats aren't really livestock" thing? Fortunately I'm in a position to spring $400 for a vet bill on a $200 goat that I'm really fond of, but if this were a bottom-line conscious farming operation, well, I'm afraid I'd have been digging a big hole. Honestly, throwing everything in the entire book at a problem isn't my idea of skilled diagnosis, but that's what passes for it around here, evidently. (Oh, oh! Getting testy again!) :D <-- Cheesy grin . . . I'll go away now.