Biodiesel and WVO

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by jgbndaudio, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. jgbndaudio

    jgbndaudio Well-Known Member

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    Anyone out there doing anything with either?

    I'm going to build a WVO water heater this summer. We have a propane system now but I'm going to plumb this in to supplement both the domestic hot water and my baseboard hot water loop. I have most all parts I think I need, now I just need spring so I can out outside and put them together and test it away from the house.

    Also been thinking of buying a diesel and having it converted to run on veggie oil. It's a pretty simple fuel system conversion and then anywhere I can get some used oil is a fuel station.

    Any comments?

    Scotty
     
  2. hubcap

    hubcap New Member

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    Biodiesel (mixed-fuel) cost lots more. So does used cooking oil. (When bought in bulk)

    Stay with just diesel, as that is cheaper in the long run and will give you plenty of hours of dependable, steady power.
     

  3. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    For those who are curious,Huell Howser did a show on this guy using used veggie oil,he also has a very nice Mercedes diesel for 7000 for sale.He gets the used oil,filters it,pumps it into a second tank in car.He starts with diesel,when 190 degrees his system has heated the oil and a flipped switch and he is running on veggie oil from restuarants
    www.vegpoweredsystems.com

    BooBoo
     
  4. WisJim

    WisJim Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know a couple of people using old vegetable oil/grease as a secondary fuel for a diesel vehicle, and I have seen quite a few more at the Energy Fair (http://www.the-mrea.org) last June in central Wisconsin, and a few more at the Living Green Expo in St. Paul, MN.
    I haven't heard of any serious problems, but of course as this becomes more popular, used cooking oil will become more valuable.

    Jim
     
  5. Kadiddylak

    Kadiddylak Member

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    I considered the Bio diesel .and did alot of research on it.If you run a old diesel that has a mechanical injection pump i guess it would be ok.
    Theres alot more to this wonder fuel than what has been explained.
    Like the problems with water,filtering,cooking of the fuel. I would say by the time you processed your fuel and actually used it. It would cost you double the pump price. It also has alot to do with how much your time is worth. Bio will not start your vehicle which isnt much of a problem you can have two fuel systems. second diesel fuel has additives which keep the orings and other plastic and rubber parts of the fuel system from breaking down. If this fuel damages the system $$$ there goes your savings. To replace the injector pump on my Dodge your looking at around $2500. Most any diesel injector pump is above $1000 to replace.
    Diesels do get better mileage than gas but there is alot of maintenece involved.Fuel filter,oil filter,air filters all cost two or three times that of a gas vehicle . Example oil change on my 02 Dodge filter $20, oil -14 quarts $70 fuel filter $20 Cost of diesel in Tx today $2.05
    The major advantages to a diesel you can tow twice the weight of a gas truck and the engine will last two to three times longer before rebuild.
     
  6. unioncreek

    unioncreek Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm going to start making biodiesel and it actually costs less than $1.00 gallon. Some of the newer pickups won't run on it, but the Jetta will. The process is actually very simple and only takes a short time to do. If you do a google search you can find a lot of sites that can answer any questions you have. You don't need to start your engine on regular diesel and then switch to biodiesel, that is for the people who use unprocessed waste vegetable oil.

    Kadiddylak, it doesn't cost anymore to operate my 96 Dodge CTD than it does my car. I change oil in my CTD every 7000 mile, filter (FleetGuard $6.60) are the same price and I buy my oil at Walmart (Delo 15-40 $1.25 quart), change it all myself. The only difference is the cost of the fuel filter which is about twice as much and I only change it once a year.
     
  7. opus

    opus Well-Known Member

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    Thats due to the fact its the Cummins. The Powerstroke takes 14 quarts of oil. Diesels DO cost a lot more to maintain than a gas engine. With todays gas engines, you can get the same longevity you can with a diesel.

    Funny thing is, most people say they want the diesel for the 'power and pulling' ability, yet they get an automatic tranny with it and lose 1/4 of the benefit to slippage....lol!
     
  8. WanderingOak

    WanderingOak Well-Known Member

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    I think the Cummins diesel is only available with an Allison transmission, which is an automatic. In fact, I think it is very hard to find any full size truck with a stick shift. Of course, since the manufacturers are trying to pass them off as luxury cars, I am not suprised.
     
  9. Lt. Wombat

    Lt. Wombat Well-Known Member

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    We just had a farm/home show this past week and there was a guy touting the benefits of WVO. I started talking it up with him since I have a Ford IDI diesel (prime candidate for WVO).

    He was from Lincoln NE and said in the "old days" restaurants loved him because they could give it to him without having to pay the tallow company to haul it off but now they charge him $35 for a 55 gallon drum. The drums weigh in at just under 400 pounds so he had to buy electric lift for his pick up and a dolly just to get the drums.

    Out of that 55 gallon there will be about 9 gallons of water, garbage (cig. butts, paper products, chicken breasts, burrito's etc.) not to mention all the breading and general crud.

    The heating process is natural gas, the heating and filter setup was $200. When all is said and done out of a 55 gallon drum he averages 35 gallons of useable fuel. Add in the natural gas and disposable filters and he is paying roughly $1.62 per gallon and spending 4 hours a day collecting, heating and filtering.

    With today’s diesel priced at $2.19 and WVO at $1.62 + 4 hours of my day I don’t see the savings of 57 cents per gallon as a “real” savings. And he’s on natural gas, I would be on propane that is currently at or near $1.50 gallon (so I hear, we heat with wood) plus I would have to drive 65 miles each way to get the WVO.
     
  10. Lt. Wombat

    Lt. Wombat Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Cummins had the 6 speed manual?

    If you have a Ford diesel or want to read some good forum information on bio fuel and the like try http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/
     
  11. opus

    opus Well-Known Member

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    Stick trannys are available. Finding one without ordering might be a little difficult.

    I ordered a new 2000 PSD, Crewcab, 4x4, 6spd with manual hubs. You should have seen the looks and questions I got from them! "Not auto hubs or auto trans?" Not a chance I told them. Auto hubs are worse than the auto trans. In this country you want to be SURE your 4wd works. Its not handy, it a neccesity.

    Anyways, cam positioning sensor quit, leaving us stranded at a mountain pass. Had it sold 2 months later and upgraded to a '63 F250. Much nicer now, baling wire and bubble gum will get you out of anywhere if the need arise!

    It was a great truck crusing down the road, but once you needed it to work, it was too light and too 'tinny' to be any good for me. It was a computer that ran on diesel fuel.
     
  12. Bob_W_in_NM

    Bob_W_in_NM Well-Known Member

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    I've got a thought about the WVO in terms of the rising price of fuel. There are just a few people around here trying to use it. (Diesel pick up trucks are the only use that I know of here.)

    I know there's enough "users" around here that it's already to the point that the available WVO almost meets the demand.

    So, what happens if a few more people decide to "recycle" this product? Looks to me like it might turn out not to be very practical, due to pending lack of supply. Could be a "victim of it's own success".
     
  13. jgbndaudio

    jgbndaudio Well-Known Member

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    Where I live filtered WVO is available on the open market consistently for $.50 - $1.00 a gallon delivered in bulk (250 or more gallons) so it's still cheaper than diesel. It might not be for everyone but it is feasible for a lot of people.

    Scotty
     
  14. unioncreek

    unioncreek Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The new Dodges come with either the 6 speed manual or the automatic. The older Dodge's pre 2000 came with a 5 speed or auto. Dodge doesn't have an Allison only the Chevy does and it is not exactly the same tranny that Allison puts in trucks. It is hard to find a manual tranny truck these days. I have an auto in my 96 Dodge with the Cummins and it has 200K miles on it. With an auto tranny that is in good operating conditions you lose 3 to 5% of the power.

    BobG
     
  15. Lt. Wombat

    Lt. Wombat Well-Known Member

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    Well Scotty if there was a systme like that here no one would run diesel as we're all a bunch of cheap arses. I can get red dyed diesel over in Wyoming for $1.02 gal but I'm too afraid of the fines to run it in the truck
     
  16. oz in SC

    oz in SC Well-Known Member

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    My truck is stick shift,was bought by original owner specifically for towing-5 speed manual,4x4,4.10 gears.

    I am thinking of starting to mix 25% waste oil with diesel to off set the cost.

    As to that red dyed diesel-who will ever check a personal vehicle?
     
  17. ex mek

    ex mek Member

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    the only problem I have seen with " VEGGY " fuil is its thicker than diesel , so a foot of of copper pipe fitted in the fuil line ( suction side)and wraped around the exhaust manifold cured that problem , it also cures Diesel freezing in winter !!
     
  18. Lt. Wombat

    Lt. Wombat Well-Known Member

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    The South Dakota Highway Patrol inspection station on the border or the DOT trooper who live in town. Both are willing to test randomly.
     
  19. opus

    opus Well-Known Member

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    The same guy that gave the ranch a $10,000 fine for running it in a ranch pickup. It had been on the car lot being sold. They thought they would stop and dip it. :eek:)
     
  20. tooltime

    tooltime Border Ruffian

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    I've been dip-checked for off-road (ag fuel) in my diesel pickup (On a county gravel road) and also while driving my brothers' grain trucks. Once by a state trooper and once by a DOT cop. They have this thing like a long turkey baster and they draw out a sample of fuel.

    They can hit you with a fine from $1000-$10000 I've heard, and they can even impound your vehicle if they want. They can probably take you down in the ditch and beat you with a rubber hose, too.

    So, as to who will check a pesonal vehicle, a law enforcement guy who wants to book some more fine revenue I imagine. To me, it's not worth risking getting hit with a big fine.