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I have seen this before and just read an article about it so i thought I would share it. It is common for theives or scam artists to steal timber from absentee property owners or elderly property owners. Saw logs can be worth quite a bit and it's unfortunately common for people to cut trees down and steal them off of property. Also common for scam artists to convince someone they're needing some firewood and they'll cut you some if you let them cut some of the downed trees. They then go deep in the woods and cut saw logs and remove them out the adjoining property.
 

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Yes this is a problem. But the Arkansas Forestry Commision has done something about this. The logs are mesuared and the saw mill companies keep a record of them. All they do is to find the right size logs and they have a case. They are verry sucesval about the case against timber theef.
 

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Elderly people are one thing. Absentee owners are another. In many rural areas it is absentee wealthy people from the suberbs who buy large tracts that they will use possibly once or twice a year for hunting if that. This brings demand way up and makes property for the local population inaccessable. They put the land to no beneficial use. They just hoard it to themselves and don't let others use it. It is good I guess for the person trying to sell they end up with a lot more for the land. On the other hand their vacant unused land brings property prices out of reach for many who would want land for beneficial ends. A lot of locals who grew up in areas with low incomes can't even dream of buying land by where they live because of how once a year owners that can spend any amount for land out of their vast resources just to hunt have brought prices out of reach. Poorer city dwellers who would want to try to live off the land and would benefit areas with good farm fresh eggs and fresh vegtables and meat can't buy the land either. These are people who would truly contribute to a local economy. They don't have the oppurtunity because of what people who just let land sit to hunt once a year have done to prices. Taking timber is wrong. However I have absolutely no sympathy at all for the vast majority of absentee owners.
 

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"Poorer city dwellers who would want to try to live off the land and would benefit areas with good farm fresh eggs and fresh vegtables and meat can't buy the land either. These are people who would truly contribute to a local economy."

Dream on. Old 40 acres and a mule concept.
 

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The last thread I read was all for no regulations on land use...now this one wants to regulate the price and the use...this could get confusing.

Marlene
 

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brreitsma,

You really take the cake. You remind me of people who would complain about $1 bills falling from the sky because they weren't $10 bills.

As you mentioned in passing...ask the local landowners who get premium prices for their land whether they would prefer to get less for their land (than the market price).

Ask the local farmers who rent land from absentee owners at cash rents with a return (to the landowner) that have lagged land prices. That means many farmers can expand on rented land that they otherwise would have had to put capital up for (which they likely would not have been able to afford).

Ask the local contractors who get business because of the money those absentee landowners bring in.

When I was young I lived in a rural area where we had a party line (that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't) and I went to a one room school house so I'm calling cowpuckie on your statements. People make their own opportunities. It doesn't matter if they are in a rural area or a suburb or a city.

Where our farm is, is the northern tip of Appalachia. Unemployment is high and it looks like it will go higher (They are talking about shutting the rail line due to the cost of reparing the track....that means 2 large local employers would have to move). People that have 2 brain cells to rub together appreciate that outside money coming in because without it things would be a lot worse.

I haven't met very many rural farm families where the kids couldn't get into farming if they chose to.

I guess you must be referring to people who weren't farming in the first place and just want to have land. How are they different from anyone else in the world who just wants to have land?

What you are really saying is "I'm unhappy because I can't get what I want (land) and wish to blame others because I haven't figured out how to get it".

And when you say beneficial use, I have to ask beneficial to whom? Beneficial to you because you want it?

Beeman posted about thieves and you are taking this as an opportunity to slyly justify thievery because "those big bad absentee land owners are taking away other opportunities from the thieves". Quite a few of those absentee landowners are regular folks who scrimped and saved and took on a lot of risk (Debt) to buy that piece of land. They aren't on that land because the only way they can pay it down is to keep their job somewhere else.

A thief is a thief and anyone who would try to justify that thievery in any way shape or form isn't much better. You obviously DO CONDONE thievery or you wouldn't have posted what you did.

I have no sympathy for you but would have the business end of a 12 gauge if you ever showed up on our property trying to steal timber.
 

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Many people who hire loggers to cut there timber on large plots have found later that the loggers have gone accross the property line, over on there neighbors property and taked some large vernier trees, and now they are gone and the trees are sold.

Case closed.

bumpus
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brreitsma said:
Elderly people are one thing. Absentee owners are another. In many rural areas it is absentee wealthy people from the suberbs who buy large tracts that they will use possibly once or twice a year for hunting if that. This brings demand way up and makes property for the local population inaccessable. They put the land to no beneficial use. They just hoard it to themselves and don't let others use it. It is good I guess for the person trying to sell they end up with a lot more for the land. On the other hand their vacant unused land brings property prices out of reach for many who would want land for beneficial ends. A lot of locals who grew up in areas with low incomes can't even dream of buying land by where they live because of how once a year owners that can spend any amount for land out of their vast resources just to hunt have brought prices out of reach. Poorer city dwellers who would want to try to live off the land and would benefit areas with good farm fresh eggs and fresh vegtables and meat can't buy the land either. These are people who would truly contribute to a local economy. They don't have the oppurtunity because of what people who just let land sit to hunt once a year have done to prices. Taking timber is wrong. However I have absolutely no sympathy at all for the vast majority of absentee owners.
Whine Whine Whine.

Investment land is good for the economy. It pays a reasonable but not fantastic return. It does allow the owner to have a place to go and enjoy the land if the locals have not looted the timber and converted the land to a dump, as is often the case.

Investing in land causes a shortage of cut-up small tracts and makes the land owned by the locals more valuable, year after year.

Long term land investors cause timber to be produced for the marketplace. Usually this is long term old growth timber (if the landowner can keep the "entitled" locals from harvesting it for him). This high quality timber in the marketplace is good for the local economy and for local timber cutters. Usually when the time comes to cut the timber a local timber cutter will get that work. This is good for the local economy.

People become wealthy by working hard, and investing wisely. Some even chose to live in the country eventually when they retire. If the country is full of jealous whining wannabee's this is bad for the local economy. Just look around and see for yourself. I live in one of the poorest counties in Ohio, it is poor at least partly because the people here are not willing to go to work and improve their life style. Whining is a lot easier. Encroachment, that means "a gettin over on the other guy" is a big pastime. So if I mowed your field a couple of times then it belongs to me, right? If I want more land just move the surveyor pins a few hundred feet, right? If I have a load of junk and I am too cheap to haul it to the dump, then I could just dump it in the lane of "thar rich guys land", right?

If you wonder why you are poor just take a look at your own sorry "entitlement" attitude.

If you want to improve your life style, then get up and make it happen. :)
 

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I may be an crazy contrarion son of a gun, but I LIKE large absentee owners... they keep the land in large blocks, undeveloped. I've got one absentee owner on one section of my place, and a large timber company on another. I can hunt on the absentee's, if I want. Both have logged their trees, so I won't see either tract desecrated for at least 15 years... as long as they keep it in timber. Lord help me, if the absentee subdivided and let dirt farmers, or worse, trailer trash move in... cause then... I'd have *cue the theme music from JAWS*...Neighbors!!! *cue scene from Psycho, with the stabbing action...shreek shreek shreek* Neighbors, arggghhh the bane of my existence. I'm still angry with my sister for selling some land a mile away to some young folks... she made a fortune, but she also cut my nearest fulltime neighbor distance by half, from two miles to a mile. Thank goodness that's about as close as they can get, as I control that much land, and the electrical access.

In this day and age, are there any more *rubes* to be taken? Most folks pinch their wallets around here, when someone shows up wanting to "help them".... and pity the fool who gets caught trying to scam some old folks... some of em get to go "hog huntin" or if they're real lucky, they gets to go "fishin"... :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I know someone this happened to which is why I started this post. He is a local that happened to have a house in town and land in the country. How this has turned into the discussion it has is beyond me. I know plenty of locals that live in town and have farms out a distance from home. We have problems arounf here with theft and it doesn't matter if they're locals or "rich city folk landowners" they are equal opportunity theives. I have friends that have lost gates(price a farm gate lately?), cattle, saw logs, even brand new cattle trailers from their farm.
 

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Has he gone to the Tennisee Forestry Comision? They have a plan like the one in Arkansas. Most think that once the logs are gone then their is onthing to do. That is wrong.
 

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There are weekend places that do not rent out. They come to an area one time a year and keep land tied up that could benefit people. Also people can choose from which property they vote from. There are city folk that rarely visit property but vote and try to push through legislation and regulations in the area of their vacation properties that negatively impact people that actually live in the area affecting their way of life. They will try to pass stuff forbidding more then one residence on a properety for example. Literally causing homelessness. They will also try to pass square foot codes and building codes making it prohibitive for low income locals to up grade from old fire trap mobile homes. Another example is anything new has to be so far from a property line. This makes it impossible to better someones self. People owning vacant land is not so bad as long as they stay out of local politics unless or until they move to an area.
 

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brreitsma said:
There are weekend places that do not rent out. They come to an area one time a year and keep land tied up that could benefit people. Also people can choose from which property they vote from. There are city folk that rarely visit property but vote and try to push through legislation and regulations in the area of their vacation properties that negatively impact people that actually live in the area affecting their way of life. They will try to pass stuff forbidding more then one residence on a properety for example. Literally causing homelessness. They will also try to pass square foot codes and building codes making it prohibitive for low income locals to up grade from old fire trap mobile homes. Another example is anything new has to be so far from a property line. This makes it impossible to better someones self. People owning vacant land is not so bad as long as they stay out of local politics unless or until they move to an area.
Sounds to me like someone who's a little bitter about not being- A:Born wealthy, or B: Not financially successful in their life. It's sad when this results in being angry at those who fall under A or B and wanting to punish them by removing their Constitutional right to vote.
As was stated previously, people here spend a lot of time griping about the government dictating how we can use our land. Are we to let brreitsma choose for us instead? Not me thanks. I'd love nothing better than to be able to afford to buy and occaionally hunt a nice sized chunk of land in Montana or Wyoming. According to brreitsma, that would be wasteful and unfair to her because I'm not there to plant tomatoes or collect some eggs or shoot a piglet in the back of the head for supper. (Well, maybe she's right. I do love ham, eggs and sliced tomato for supper :rolleyes: )

Doug
 

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Texican pretty well expressed my feeling on all subjects. When I was choosing where to buy land and settle in, the population per square mile was a major consideration. Thieves are thieves and won't be tolerated by me or my good neighbors who always notice strange, unusual activity on vaccant land tracts. Not so much nosy, just interested. It's sad to witness what appears to be frustrated envy on the part of one poster. I wish she would take advantage of the experience and helpful folks on HT. I betcha' together we could find a way for her to get land on her own..PM me if you want to...Glen
 

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(Well, maybe she's right.
#1 I am a man.

Sounds to me like someone who's a little bitter about not being- A:Born wealthy, or B: Not financially successful in their life. It's sad when this results in being angry at those who fall under A or B and wanting to punish them by removing their Constitutional right to vote.
As I stated it has nothing to do with there right to vote. I listed the effects of their being involved in local politics and it negatively impacting the poorer who live in that area in which they do NOT live. If you had hunting land and saw people struggling to get by in that area would you be such a pompous *@# as to get more restrictive zoning and codes passed that would guarantee them not being able to pull themselves up. This is also about peoples property rights to do what they want with their place. It should not be infringed upon by a person not even living in an area. If I have a very old small home burn down and insurance doesn't pay out enough to replace it with anything large enough or new enough or whatever to pass muster under restrictions that an outsider helped pass I should not have to give up MY right to live on MY property because you want to look down your nose at anyone not as well off as yourself. Old places being damaged or destroyed and insurance not paying out enough to replace it with something else that passes current code does happen. Don't kid yourself. So I ask would you as an ABSENTEE owner feel justified causing this to happen to a LOCAL family because of what you voted on. If so I would hope someone in that family or close to them would attack and damage or destroy your suburban home. By the way I am no longer struggling economically. I am not real comfortable but am far from struggling. There are people living in tents on property they own because a storm took their mobile home and they couldn't replace it with anything acceptable. In those cases retaliation needs to take place.
 

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Boy this has sure lost me fast.How in the heck is it wrong to buy Land and not use it no matter where you live :shrug:

I have two places and I'm not using any of it other than to do a little Hunting and Fishing and this is wrong and I should not be surpised if someone comes in and steals off my Land.Either Wildlife or Timber.

BULL!!!!!

big rockpile
 

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20 years ago I lived in New Jersey, and people were poaching an unusual tree with purple flowers, whose name I've forgotten! by helicopter with spotlights at night. It's a tree used for veneer and very valuable. At first we thought they were going after deer, but they weren't. They made a mess of lots of woods before it stopped. ldc
 
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