Armed encounter with trespasser!

Discussion in 'Homesteading Questions' started by Coloradosteader, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Coloradosteader

    Coloradosteader Active Member

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    I'll set the stage on what happened to us the other day...
    My girlfriend and I were on our 5 acre pinion treed lot we are building on in southern Colorado the past few days doing some work. We have had filled propane tanks and tools we left under a brushpile stolen along with 2 cords of green firewood. That happened about 2 months ago.
    We have put signs up all around the acreage that read no tresspassing and keep out etc. The driveway is in and the foundation area is cleared and leveled but we currently don't reside on the property.
    We let everyone in town (pop 300) know what happened and we have several friends in the area say that we need to make a powerful presence around our property and people will leave it alone. The former Sheriff (who is now the road and bridge guy for the county) advocated blasting rounds off to let folks know we have guns up there. Which we do.
    Well the pinions are producing a bumper crop this year and this area is just loaded with them, but 99% are located on private property in this immediate area. We have asked people nicely to leave my lot and my parents lot which are all marked with signs that say keep out etc. when we catch them picking.
    Now I'm on our "crapper" out in the woods and I hear something rustling over to my left! I see this guy on all fours picking pinions off the ground. I have my .45 on me but it's hunting season and everyone is paking heavy artillery. So I finish my business and quietly walk over to the truck 200' away and get my Remington 870 Marine Magnum out and load up. I walk over to where the guy is with the shotgun in my right hand muzzle down. I say, "Hey! Do you know you are on private property?" The guy jumps a foot off the ground and asks for my name??!!! I told him and he says he has never heard of me to which I laugh and ask him his name. I told him I had never heard of him. He then tells me he works for road and bridge and is an ex cop. He then tells me he has a gun. While still on all fours mind you! I tell him "then you should know you are on private property and as long as you don't do anything stupid like pull that gun out I won't have to shoot you". He trys explaining he is only picking pinions and was helping my driveway guys last week measure the culverts we just put in. I then told him to finish up and move on and to tell his friends that this area is off limits for trespassing.
    I watch him leave and he waves and I wave back. No hard feelings... but wait! Twenty minutes later the ex sheriff pulls up and tells me that this guy just ran and told him I kicked him off for picking pinions at gun point! He starts laughing and told me how I scared the crap out of this guy who doesn't work for road and bridge anymore. He then tells me how this guy is a mean SOB when it comes to people trespassing on his property. The ex-sheriff guy tells me all is well and it was the best thing I could have done. Now everyone knows not to mess with my place.
    The no trespassing signs etc. don't seem to mean anything to these people. Proper display of force seems to be the only cure. I didn't come off hostile with a gun in his face, but walked up with the shotgun loaded muzzle down in one hand. The guy was armed and fortunately let me know. I think him knowing I had major tactical advantage made that decision for him. I was firm but polite, but never took my eyes off of him.
    Luckily things turned out as they did. I really think the sight of the shotgun is a major thing. If I had a pistol concealed things may have been different, who knows.
    I just thought I'd pass along my experience since this topic has been discussed recenlty here. FWIW



    Coloradosteader
     
  2. fordy

    fordy Well-Known Member

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    ................I would invest in a bulletproof vest and thoroughly check the privy for "trip wires" before accessing the inside . fordy... :)
     

  3. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

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    life in the wild west...

    whats a pinion.... and why would he be on all fours?

    eastern cove forest dweller here, dunno what a pinion is... lol

    we cant see 50 feet thru this kinda forest.
     
  4. Coloradosteader

    Coloradosteader Active Member

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    A pinion is a pine nut which are really tasty and they come out every 4 to 7 years depending on the rainfall. They come out of the pine cone and fall to the ground and are way easier to harvest this way before the first snow (hence down on all fours). The rodent issue the next year or two should be interesting though! :)
    I'll be doing my usual tripwire checking as usual.




    Coloradosteader
     
  5. HilltopDaisy

    HilltopDaisy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We pay around $15 a pound for them in this part of the country!
     
  6. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    I would say you had a good encounter with the guy. I have had a few run in with people on properties I have owned. I had one were I left a dozer on the place during a summer and came back to find 2 guys working on it. They told me how they bought the land 5 or so years back and how they were there to build a home and the dozer had broke down. Then I had to inform them after I got my AR-15 and my nextel out that I owned both the land and the dozer and this wasn't a movie they would get shot amd not make it to the hospitol should either or advance on me before the sheriff made it there. I carry NyCuffs in my truck now too.
     
  7. Orkney

    Orkney Member

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    A slight deviation in the thread – but just wondering….
    What would be the consequences of shooting a trespasser and killing them?
    Seems a lot of you guys have trespasser problems and are more than justified in wanting to carry firearms.
    Asking for several reasons, as most of you will probably know the UK has very tight gunlaws, that and new freedom to roam laws coming in all over the place means you have problems getting rid of trespassers let alone being able to shoot them – youd probably get 10 years in prison for just pointing a loaded firearm at someone.
    Would assume that there are incidents of trespassers being shot, land owners trying to assert their rights to remove them probably get shot as well, so interested to hear of any stories or experiences you may all have.
    Kevin
     
  8. Oilpatch197

    Oilpatch197 Well-Known Member

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    Thou shalt NOT kill? :nono:
     
  9. WolfWalksSoftly

    WolfWalksSoftly Level II -Inappropriate

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    More then likely charged with murder....unless of course said victim was dragged..err.. entered into the house.
     
  10. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    Kevin,

    In my home state of KY, you wouldn't get any charge so long as there is any one of the following going on 2 or more persons being agressive, a person being threatening with either something of a weapon or a size, age, or ablity advantage, and of course the threat to others within your view or in your responsiablity. Also as a CCDW(conceiled carry deadly weapons permit) holder you are released of alot of he said she said in the eyes of the court. Of course if you shoot someone in the back who is trying to leave you have broke the law and are guilty. But in the same he he or she turns away to grad a would be weapon(defined as anything you beleive could be used to do harm) you may shoot. And as always shoot to kill. There is nothing but truth when a round is fired in a judgement call on the part of a person who felt in fear for life either their own or someone elses.

    Later,
    Keith
     
  11. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    Doesn't matter inside your house or outside on a street same laws. Just outside on the street you better hope you used better judgement then say a shooting in your home. If you shoot in your home there is little to no chance of liablity legal or financial out on property you can shoot but you need to be certain you have a risk of lose of life either your own or some other person. Like you see a woman being attacked you are able to intervene. This risk includes the threat of. Say two guys are stealing something, you confront them one walks away comes back with a large wrench then raises his voice...because two men could easily take your life with a simple blunt object you have the right to shoot the guy with the wrench should the other advance on you with or without the object you are within your rights to put one down range in him too.
    Later,
    Keith

    BTW My Dad is a NRA and kentucky lic. trainer for CCDW
     
  12. Orkney

    Orkney Member

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    OneWheelBiting –
    This is fascinating !
    Firearms aside, the law in the UK says that currently if you encounter a burglar in your home you are only permitted to use ‘reasonable force’ to detain that burglar.
    Now of course this then boils down to much conjecture, the mood of the judge on the day it goes to trial and I guess how good and to a point expensive the lawyer for either party is.
    There is pressure that should see this changed to ‘any amount of force’ but it may not happen very quickly.
    Unfortunately just like the USA the UK is turned in to a litigation mad society. There are actually cases of burglars who have for example fallen in a house they are burgling – say maybe on a loose carpet and who have successfully sued and won damages from the homeowner. Same with burglars who have been given a good beating and who have argued and won that it was beyond reasonable force used to detain them have won substantial damages.
    You state ‘Always shoot to kill’ – just wondered what the reasoning behind that is? Is it because the law says that’s what you are entitled to do or an act of finality that has no repercussions either for your own safety or legal recourse from an injured burglar?
    I can 100% see the ethic of self preservation, and the moral that you should only carry a firearm if you are prepared to use it. Personally I’m a good enough shot to take out a shoulder or leg without taking aim, but given a situation where my life was endangered would I take that chance? Guess adrenalin and anger or fear might stop rational thinking momentarily.
    I mean from my perspective, I keep guns legally, but even if someone were shooting on my land or doing whatever and they had guns I honestly don’t think I would confront them with a gun – why? Because if things got out of hand I could be the one spending 15 years locked up, but then if I lived in your neck of the woods and was within my rights I don’t suppose there would be any hesitation.
    It’s great food for thought !

    Kevin
     
  13. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    Why I said the following is be cause of both...In the truth of it dead men tell no tales. Also Kentucky law like 30 something other states says if they are inside you house they are a deadly threat to you and your family. Another reason to shoot to kill is the fact that if you have done any training military or other defense shooting training you mind will hopefully take over and you will shoot center of mass. I have done 4 3 week classes at ThunderRanch and I would hope that training along with my Navy Training would have me drooping double taps should the need arise.


    ‘Always shoot to kill’ – just wondered what the reasoning behind that is? Is it because the law says that’s what you are entitled to do or an act of finality that has no repercussions either for your own safety or legal recourse from an injured burglar?
     
  14. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    the thief can't say he said I give up please no! don't shoot, if he is dead.
     
  15. TxCloverAngel

    TxCloverAngel Happiness is Homemade

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    dont know if this really applies... but my trooper father always told me.. If I ever have to shoot at anyone always ALWAYS unload the gun.(shoot all rounds) shows you were scared/terrified. he told me it didnt even matter if they all didnt hit whomever was being shot at.. but always ALWAYS unload all shots.
     
  16. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    I have heard that but I have never seen or read proof of that. Most people is a life or death shooting seem to lay 1 down range and then put the gun down and think for a few minute and call the law. Trained people tend to knock a couple quick rounds into a would be thief.
     
  17. Orkney

    Orkney Member

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    Can’t help thinking about the OP and the situation ColaradoSteader was in.
    Ok so it was handled brilliantly IMHO but…….. it could have gone very differently in 101 ways – if the pinion pilferer had ended up full of lead regardless of if he had indicated intent to go for a weapon then there would only be one witness.
    If ColaradoSteader had not been armed and the trespasser had been high and with a bad attitude the potential situation doesn’t bear thinking about.
    Just goes to show the differences of living in society with firearms available to the masses I guess.
    Kevin
     
  18. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    Kevin,

    We gun owners as a whole understand that prevention, judgement, and above all responsiblity are nned before owning a gun. I am sure you being from the UK wouldn't understand much about that. But the Austrialians will be the first to tell you gun control only prevents lawful owners from having a right to own a gun. Thiefs, criminals and the like don't go to a gun shop or get screening they goto a "hookup" and pay cash. I think you coming from the Queens Nation should stand back and watch the news dealing with firearm related crimes you won't hear but a handful out of 10's or thousands each year here in the usa. The UK is the same way except that any pistol in semi auto is illegal but that 90% of gun crime there is commited with semi auto pistols. That said you are more likely to be killed in a auto wreck then by shooting about 100 times more likely. Also guns are used to save 3 lives for everyone they take in the USA....That figure printed in USA Today not to long ago and it excluded law enforcement.
     
  19. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Well-Known Member

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    you have him dead to rights for tresspassing esp since he admitted it to the sherrif, depending on local laws, since he was armed, that may make it felony tresspass. I'd ask the sherriff about pressing charges
     
  20. OneWheelBiting

    OneWheelBiting Redneck Hippy

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    George,

    Give the poor guy a break...lol. His needs new pants I am sure. Your right though but the time for that would have been the day it happened. He as a land owner should have had his ass locked up for the heaviest charges he could have passed and followed all the way thru until this guy learned a life lesson via justice.

    Later,
    Keith