Any one trim goats hooves?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by BiGtImEfArMeRs4, Mar 1, 2005.

  1. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, it there anyone out there who knows of anyone or they themselves would come and work on two of our goats hooves? We have a boer that just kidded today who really needs her hooves trimmed badly, because she walks on her knee's. Another goat that is due to kid next week who also needs her hooves trimmed badly because she walks on her knee's. Someone who is professional or who is an expert on trimming goat hooves. By the way, we are in Mechancisburg, Pennsylvania. We need someone to give them a professional trim and maybe some advice, as we are capable of trimming them, once they are trimmed down. Both of these goats are very tame, and easy to handle. Also, if anyone can offer advice as to how to "fix their hooves" it would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks!
    Lori
     
  2. tduerson

    tduerson Well-Known Member

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    How did they get that bad to start with? Did you recently get them? Well, to the question. My advice would be, if you can not get anyone to come and do it for you, start trimming as much as you can at first and trim several times to get them back to where they should be. It might take several days or weeks to get them right. You will need to trim on a regular basis to keep them from getting like this again. Just imagine having toenails an inch long and trying to walk on them. I dont think that would be very pleasant, especially being pregnant on top of it.
    Tina
     

  3. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    We got the boer last July. Her feet did'nt start to get like this until maybe late November, early December. The other doe, the bred one, is a Saanen. I believe she may have arthritis in her knees or at least one of them though. We were not able to trim the Boers' hooves until she kidded though. Same with the other one. They previously had the wrong type of feed, which had a lot of corn in it and made their feet grow. We do trim on a regular basis, just cannot as much when they are bred.
    Lori
     
  4. Jen H

    Jen H Well-Known Member

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    So they foundered and their feet overgrew?

    Do you have a vet in your area who does goats or sheep? The vet should be able to at least get the first good trim in and show you how to do it. Or any shepherds around if there aren't other goatherds? I'm on the other side of the country from you or I'd head over there and give you a hand.
     
  5. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    Yea, they foundered and their feet overgrew. Tomorrow we will look around for a vet who does goats. Not many people around here have goats. Thanks, wish you were closer!
    Thanks!
    Lori
     
  6. jill.costello

    jill.costello Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jen- could you tell me about goat founder? I know what horse founder is, and the many different situations that can cause it, but I didn't know my goats could, as well... can they founder just by being over-weight? My girls only get 1 cup of grain split between them 2x per day, plus a handful of rice bran fat supplement in their loose minerals. They browse my 13 acres all day, every day, and are in QUITE good flesh... soft+pudgy is what DH says...

    Thanks! -Jill
     
  7. Siryet

    Siryet In Remembrance

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    Maybe this will explain Jill.

    I have two Nubian goats. The hooves of one of my goats--but not the other--are growing very long. The goat doesn't seem to be in pain, but should I trim its hooves anyway? Tasha Clinton, New Plymouth

    It's possible that your goat has been foundered at some time in the past, says Dr. Marie Bulgin, a veterinarian with the University of Idaho's Caine Veterinary Teaching Center.

    Foundering occurs when too much carbohydrate is added to its diet--either in the form of grain or early, fast-growing grasses. The resulting acidosis tends to cause permanent damage to the horn-growing cells of the hoof, and affected hooves grow abnormally quickly and in an unusual growth pattern.

    "Depending on how severe or long-lasting the acidosis was, the animal may show some degree of lameness or gait abnormality, walking on the heel of its hooves or standing with the hind feet more underneath it than the normal animal," says Bulgin. "It's the most common cause of lameness in dairy cows."

    Trimming is helpful, she says, so pick up a pair of foot-trimmers for sheep and goats at a farm store and get started. Once goats have been foundered, their hooves will always grow faster, so you'll need to keep them trimmed from now on.
     
  8. Jen H

    Jen H Well-Known Member

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    Yep, goats can founder just like horses. I think horses are easier to founder, though.

    Basically, goats founder from being fed too much grain for the amount of work you need them to do. Whether that's milking or breeding or packing. Founder (laminitis) is an inflammation caused by the rumen being too acidic. It starts out as an acute attack, where you'll see them favoring their feet and obviously uncomfortable. At this point the top of their hoof where it meets the skin will be hot while the bottom of the foot is cold.

    If you don't catch it then it goes on to become chronic, where the feet thicken up and harden so you can't tell the difference between the hoof and sole. You almost have to take a grinder to the bottoms of their feet to get that hoof trimmed. At this point, you're just trying to keep the animal comfortable.

    The treatment for acute founder is the same as for horses. You cut their feed back to just plain hay and give them a nice deep bed to rummage around in. You might give them some aspirin if they're in obvious pain. And you get the feet trimmed back down to something close to normal as quickly as you can. Gradually their feet will get better. Once a critter has foundered, you really have to watch their diets because they'll be more susceptible to foundering again.

    Jill, to your question about the amount of grain your goats get. That doesn't seem like much grain at all to me. I'm really not an expert in that, though. My cashmeres don't get any grain except for treats because they don't need it. They're plenty pudgy on their grass and alfalfa!
     
  9. debitaber

    debitaber Well-Known Member

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    your vet can trim the hoofs, and show you how to do it.
    If they are walking on thier knees, I would also test for CAE, and other things. might have a problem there.
     
  10. Cara

    Cara Well-Known Member

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    Siryet, thanks for the info you posted. I have a doe that I paid WAY too much for (sight unseen, out of a "good herd"-never again) but that is her. Her Hooves grow probably three times as fast as the others. With her, though, I think it's probably partly founder and partly heredity, because her daughter has the same trouble just not to the same extent. Thanks again!
     
  11. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    What are signs of CAE, other than them walking on their knees? What else could it be?
    Thanks!
    Lori
     
  12. Thumper/inOkla.

    Thumper/inOkla. Well-Known Member

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    1st CAE makes their knees hurt and they will NOT walk on their knees, goats that are symptomatic have swollen knees and NO knee pads, there are often udder problems also. {I have 3 CAE + goats} Stiffness in the joints are common also, such goats are not likely to run, jump or climb, their joints hurt to much.
    babies that have CAE may die from brain inflamation soon after birth, {the E stand's for encephalitis}
    a good group to learn about it is cae-alternatives at yahoo groups. there are links on the homepage to learn more than I can remember.

    2nd why do you not trim hooves while she is preg.? I do. Everyone I know of does too. I have read of other people who don't but I have never understood why not.
     
  13. HilltopDaisy

    HilltopDaisy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was going to ask the same question--why wouldn't you trim the hooves of a pregnant goat? I can't imagine what my goats' feet would look like if I didn't trim them for 4 or 5 months!!
     
  14. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    We do trim the goats hooves when they are bred. It is just that they were within a month of kidding and we do not want to hurt them, while tryin to trim their feet because we roll them on their sides so they lay still and it is easier to trim that way.
     
  15. goatlady

    goatlady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For heaven's sake, why would you put an animal in a position they don't normally assume? Everybody I know trims with the animals standing, usually in the stanchion, munching on treats!
     
  16. Thumper/inOkla.

    Thumper/inOkla. Well-Known Member

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    Wow, none of my goats will go down like that without a major fight.

    I walk up and lift a foot and swipe with a sureform rasp, {it is a wood working tool that looks like a cheese grater} if they must have more done, I clip them to a wall, standing up and do each foot like a horse is done.

    Our pygmy buck is the only one we might have to "sit" on to work over. but he is a mean stinky #&%@!.
     
  17. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    We try standing, but none will stand. They all go down very easily and lay still for us to trim them. Is a sureform rasp a tool to help trim their hooves and make it easier? Sorry I am kinda dumb when it comes to this stuff.
    Lori
     
  18. Thumper/inOkla.

    Thumper/inOkla. Well-Known Member

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    It isn't dumb to ask what you don't know, I was shocked the 1st time I saw a wood working tool used on a animals feet, for sure. And if they fight less laying down I say go for it! You preg. does might let you do one or two feet {that stick out}, at a time as they lay down to rest, that way they stay comfortable
    and their feet stay sound. some of my goats will let me "sneek" a swipe or two before they get up from a nap.

    The tool is sold as a surform wood rasp, there are different sizes and some made for auto body work too, [mine happens to be a Stanley brand] but they all look like cheese graters, the tool is very sharp but because it is a rasp it can not cut up into the quick of the hoof, it can only take off shreds (like cheese shreds) of something like an 1/8 of an inch at a time, it does the frog at the same time too. {besure to keep your fingers out of the way} The hoof ends up level, little snags at the tip or edge are taken off by a downward swipe from the outside, tiny soft frills can be left on as they will wear off in a day or so.

    I have use it to shape crooked tips off of horns too. If you must have horns at least you can have blunt rounded tip horns with this tool.
     
  19. BiGtImEfArMeRs4

    BiGtImEfArMeRs4 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks you so much!! That is so cool. I think I am going to get one of those, they sound like a lot of help! :D
    Thanks so much!
    Lori
     
  20. MoBarger

    MoBarger Goat's Milk soap for sale

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    A goat in later stages of CAE WILL walk on her knees. The stiffness of the knees prevent the goat from straightening her legs.
    Signs of CAE are few and far between-- walking on knees is a big one :D Swollen knees are as well. From laying down all the time, the goats develop a weeping sore btwn their front legs. Although they eat, the stay thin.
    IMHO, trimming the hooves of small goats is best done when they are on their sides. Kids and pygmies especially. Sheep are done well this way too.
    Older goats can be done standing up, in fact I think it makes it easier as you can see how they stand as you go. Some use a stand, I am pricing one out now. Currently I hold the goat's head and DH trims. I keep the goat's head between my legs and hold her still. DH is fast at the trim.
    Some folks use a rasp or even a palm sander. I have pix here: http://www.roosterhillfarm.com/journal/archives/2004/08/esmgpa_picnic.html