Homesteading Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,488 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First of all, let me say that face to face gun sales in Florida are completely legal, with no registration required.

I have just always preferred to buy guns from individuals simply because there's no paperwork. I just don't like the government knowing everything I do. I've passed on several guns at gun shops, because I wanted to try to find them from an individual, but it just seems harder and harder to find individuals with guns for sale.

I know that the record of the NICS check has to (supposedly) be destroyed within 48 hours, and the gun dealer keeps the form at his shop for 20 years. BUT, if he ever goes out of business, he has to box all those records up and send them to BATFE.

Am I just being paranoid? Should I just bite the bullet, and get them from the shops?

What do y'all think?
 

·
In memoriam
Joined
·
79,016 Posts
the gun dealer keeps the form at his shop for 20 years.
They keep them no matter how long they are in business, and youre NOT being too paranoid
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,202 Posts
Just because you bought it doesn't mean you still have it, and since there's no registration required for used sales in your state, who's to say you still own the gun if someone should come asking?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
To answer the original question. No, you are not being paranoid. To the second, no, if you are not comfortable with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,422 Posts
I would buy every gun I could under the counter with no paperwork. However that wouldn't keep me from browsing the gunshops and purchasing guns there if one caught my eye.

Do I think it's an odious restriction and an infringement on our rights? Yes. Definitely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,053 Posts
Where possible, a transaction between citizens is preferable.

Depending on the situation, I either lost them all in a fire or boating accident or Molon Labe (you can have them, bullets first).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
No, you're not paranoid. I do the same thing. The only paper I have had to deal with is the newspaper. Lately I have been thinking about buying a couple of items off the rack so to speak. I just can't bring myself to do it. I like to think of paranoia as an acute sense of reality. If you think there out to get ya', then they probably are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,905 Posts
I know that the record of the NICS check has to (supposedly) be destroyed within 48 hours, and the gun dealer keeps the form at his shop for 20 years. BUT, if he ever goes out of business, he has to box all those records up and send them to BATFE.
what scenario are you worried about? a general ban on all weapons? a gov't agency out to get you and looking for any reason to prosecute you?

if the gov't bans all weapons, are they going to go thru just the list of these records for the last umpteen years, spend gobs of money to digitize the information (assuming it's paper forms), while knowing that the information is incomplete, and knowing that private transactions aren't included, and only ask the people on it for just weapons that are officially registered?

Or do you think they might also look at membership in the NRA, credit card transactions with every gun shop, ammo sales, gun magazine subcriber lists, and other already digitized records of likely gun owners? And do you think that in the event they just might search the entire premises of anyone they suspect might have more arms, rather than simply asking if you have a specific weapon they have a record of?

If if it's almost as easy to buy from private citzens as from a gun shop, then worth having a little bit of extra privacy. However, unless you're somehow under the radar on all the other potential ways the gov't can find gun owners, I'd suggest going ahead and buying for a gun shop when it becomes very inconvenient to find what you want from private individuals.

--sgl
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,422 Posts
what scenario are you worried about? a general ban on all weapons? a gov't agency out to get you and looking for any reason to prosecute you?

if the gov't bans all weapons, are they going to go thru just the list of these records for the last umpteen years, spend gobs of money to digitize the information (assuming it's paper forms), while knowing that the information is incomplete, and knowing that private transactions aren't included, and only ask the people on it for just weapons that are officially registered?

Or do you think they might also look at membership in the NRA, credit card transactions with every gun shop, ammo sales, gun magazine subcriber lists, and other already digitized records of likely gun owners? And do you think that in the event they just might search the entire premises of anyone they suspect might have more arms, rather than simply asking if you have a specific weapon they have a record of?

If if it's almost as easy to buy from private citzens as from a gun shop, then worth having a little bit of extra privacy. However, unless you're somehow under the radar on all the other potential ways the gov't can find gun owners, I'd suggest going ahead and buying for a gun shop when it becomes very inconvenient to find what you want from private individuals.

--sgl
You realize that those house to house searches are exactly what happened in the UK and Australia in the past couple of years. It's the logical conclusion the path we're on. First comes the banning of guns, then when that doesn't stop the crime they get authorization to go house to house confiscating guns.

It's hard to just lie and say they were stolen or something when armed law enforcement is going through your bedroom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,333 Posts
You're not paranoid... the leftists are out to get your guns...

I'd rather have off the book purchases... but if I can't find what I need, I'll go with the paperwork... I'd rather have zombie guns in hand, than need them when the invasion starts...

Of course, I'm very careless and lose things... ALL the time...
 

·
Semper Fidelis
Joined
·
4,609 Posts
First of all, let me say that face to face gun sales in Florida are completely legal, with no registration required.

I have just always preferred to buy guns from individuals simply because there's no paperwork. I just don't like the government knowing everything I do. I've passed on several guns at gun shops, because I wanted to try to find them from an individual, but it just seems harder and harder to find individuals with guns for sale.

I know that the record of the NICS check has to (supposedly) be destroyed within 48 hours, and the gun dealer keeps the form at his shop for 20 years. BUT, if he ever goes out of business, he has to box all those records up and send them to BATFE.

Am I just being paranoid? Should I just bite the bullet, and get them from the shops?

What do y'all think?
First of all, are you inquiring about long guns or hand guns??

Well with a face to face - cash and carry sale, how do you know that the weapon wasn't used in a crime?
Stolen?
Hotter than Tucson, Arizona on an August day???

Do you know how to judge a (used) weapon's condition?
Is it a pice of junk, that has been used and abused?
Has it been fired 10,000 times without cleaning?
Does it jam repeatedly, making it unreliable?

Or was it only used by Grandpa, when he went out hunting once a year?

But if it is legal to do that type of firearms sales transaction in Florida (or whatever state you are in), then.....

I do buy new and used firearms off of the rack, and have had a CC&R (Curio, Collectiable, & Relic) FFL license in the past. When I gave it up, I copied and then sent my Form 4473s into the BATF, as required by law.

With a current and valid State of California CCW license, I guess that I am at the head of the line, if "they" ever come lookin' fer any guns.....

If you do start to get those paranoid feelings, then maybe some Heavy Duty Ultra Foil, may be required!!!!

 

·
In memoriam
Joined
·
79,016 Posts
A friend of mine owns a pawn shop, and he told me that he has to keep them on file for 20 years.
I worked in a gun shop for 6 years. The law states they keep them as long as they are in business.
If they go out of business they are sent to the BATF.

I know for a fact there were records in that shop over 40 years old when I worked there 10 years ago. And they are all still there. I've actually helped the ATF search through them looking for specific guns



Form 4473 is an ATF form that is required to be filled out by someone wishing to purchase a firearm from a federal firearm liscensed dealer (FFL).
It contains the customer's personal information as well as the make/model/serial number of the firearm. FFLs are required by the ATF to store these forms for as long as they remain in business. If the dealer goes out of business, he is required to turn over these forms to the ATF. Many people consider the use of these forms to be an inefficient form of defacto gun registration.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Form-4473
 

·
American Patriot
Joined
·
2,333 Posts
You realize that those house to house searches are exactly what happened in the UK and Australia in the past couple of years. It's the logical conclusion the path we're on. First comes the banning of guns, then when that doesn't stop the crime they get authorization to go house to house confiscating guns.

It's hard to just lie and say they were stolen or something when armed law enforcement is going through your bedroom.
i dont think anyone should consider themselves paranoid about preps in this day and age and crazy times we find ourselves....do what i do buy a couple trash guns at the wallyworld for hunting and keep them readily visible during the inevitable search hide the off the record ones till after the search....Good hunting and aim straight....:lonergr:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,488 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I worked in a gun shop for 6 years. The law states they keep them as long as they are in business.
If they go out of business they are sent to the BATF.
:shrug:

Not trying to start an argument. I'm just relaying what he told me two weeks ago. He said twenty years. That's all I know.

He also said that if he went out of business that the records went to BATFE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,488 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First of all, are you inquiring about long guns or hand guns??

Well with a face to face - cash and carry sale, how do you know that the weapon wasn't used in a crime?
Stolen?
Hotter than Tucson, Arizona on an August day???

Do you know how to judge a (used) weapon's condition?
Is it a pice of junk, that has been used and abused?
Has it been fired 10,000 times without cleaning?
Does it jam repeatedly, making it unreliable?

Or was it only used by Grandpa, when he went out hunting once a year?

But if it is legal to do that type of firearms sales transaction in Florida (or whatever state you are in), then.....

I do buy new and used firearms off of the rack, and have had a CC&R (Curio, Collectiable, & Relic) FFL license in the past. When I gave it up, I copied and then sent my Form 4473s into the BATF, as required by law.

With a current and valid State of California CCW license, I guess that I am at the head of the line, if "they" ever come lookin' fer any guns.....

If you do start to get those paranoid feelings, then maybe some Heavy Duty Ultra Foil, may be required!!!!
Long guns and hand guns can be sold face to face in the state of Florida, and no registration is required. I know that's hard to believe for some of you who live in a communist state, but we still have some freedoms here. For now at least.

Yes, I've owned and handled enough guns to recognize the condition of one. I can tell within a few seconds if it's a gun that I would want to own or shoot.

As far as knowing if something is stolen or not, there aren't any guarantees no matter where you buy it. I just read a thread on another forum where a guy found a Colt Python for sale at a pawn shop that had been stolen from him. The gun had been reported stolen, but it had been pawned three times since the theft. If someone that I don't know well offers me a deal that's "too good to be true", I'd probably pass.

As far as getting my tinfoil hat, ask Britain and Australia if I'm being too paranoid. Even though the SCOTUS has just ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, they also left the "reasonable restrictions" argument on the table. It's what's being accepted more and more as "reasonable" that concerns me.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top