[eam]

We adopted a doe (about 5 years old) and her two bucklings (not wethered), now 9 months old. We've had them for about a month. Mom and kids had been together on a regular basis but the previous owner claimed there was no sexual activity.

How can we tell for sure?

Hannah (the doe) gives about 1 1/2 quarts of milk every other day. We don't want to dry her off if she's not pregnant but we want her to be as strong and healthy as possible if she is likely to kid. I figured that the latest she might kid, if she was pregnant when we got her, would be early April. I have no idea what the earliest is she might kid.

She hasn't shown any signs of heat since we've gotten her, but I couldn't swear to that as I'm not really sure what to look for. Based on just reading and no experience she doesn't seem to have come into heat. Is that perhaps an indication that she might already be pregnant?

We're new at this (as you can probably tell!) and want to do what's best for Hannah. BTW, the boys will be butchered later in the month (the earliest date we could book it for) and are kept separate from Hannah.

Any suggestions for us? Thanks.
Elizabeth

 

[fishhead]

If she isn't pregnant you might want to consider wethering one of the bucks or getting another doe so that she isn't alone. They don't like that.

What is she eating? I would transition her to alfalfa just in case she's pregnant to build up her calcium. That and good goat minerals if you haven't done that already.

What kind of goats are they? Pictures?

 

[Kittikity]

The only way to tell for sure is to get a blood test done..

 

[DQ]

it is very likely that she is pregnant. her bucklings would have no qualms about breeding their own mother and you would likely at least see them trying to breed her when she was in heat. she should cycle this time of year unless she is pregnant. I would venture a guess that the bucklings didn't get her bred till they were at least 5-6 months old. but it is possible that it was earlier and it is possible that they haven't yet it just is unlikely, people use 6 month old bucks for breeding all the time. with that time frame in mind and knowing the bucklings are 9 months old you could only have 1-2 months before she kids. 2 months rest from milking before kidding is the norm. you have enough time to let her dry up and give her body a chance to grow the kids well if she is indeed preggo. if you wanted you could get an instant answer with an ultrasound and might give you a good idea as to how far along she is. I don't tink I could stand not knowing!

 

[eam]

Thanks for all the help. Hannah actually has two little Nigerian Dwarf doelings (6 months old - all the more reason to keep the boys separate) for company. We're hoping to breed them soon but that's another thread for another time.

We give Hannah about a pound of grain every time we milk - so a pound every other day. She gets local grass hay (we're told it's about 15-18% protein) free choice. We'll get her minerals as soon as we get to the feed store.

I've read the signs of being in heat but is it possible I've just missed it in her or is it obvious to the untrained eye? The boys have interest in her; when they see her come into the barn they'd like to join her. The boys also 'mate' with each other so they appear active. She just doesn't seem to respond (and hasn't in the month we've had her).

I hate not knowing, too....but we also have to balance the cost of a vet visit with all our other costs. If only she could pee on a stick!

Thanks everyone! More ideas welcome.
Elizabeth

 

[Chaty]

It sounds like I bet you will have kids around Jan or Feb. I just dried my LM doe as she is due to kid in Feb. My buck was only 6 mths and he bred her and 2 other grown does and should have kids in a few months. The boys are interested in her as she is their mother and also they smell the other goats you have. My La Mancha buck could jump the fence real easily with us not even knowing till we went out here. Long legs and determination. I bet your girl is bred andit wont be very long. Good luck and if you feed feed each day and not every other as it upset the rumin...just cut the feed to half and feed each day is what I do.

 

[eam]

Oh yeah, we were told she's a Toggenburg X Nubian. Here's a picture (if I can get it in!) that was taken Nov 29:

 

[fishhead]

In case you aren't aware goats need a LOT of copper in their minerals so be sure to get some with at least 1,000 ppm.

I think I would read up on diets for a pregnant goat and ease her into it. That might save you and her a lot of trouble later.

The doe I had would act like a cat when she was in heat by following me around and rubbing on me.

 

[Feathers-N-Fur]

Some does are easy to tell when they are in heat, others any very quiet about it. I only have one doe that I couldn't tell when she was in heat, so I finally decided that since she was the only one not bred, I just let the buck run with the does. He let me know when she was in heat.
I would bet your doe is probably bred. I would dry her up, but you will probably have kids soon. Then at 4 weeks you can separate them from her at night and milk her in the morning, then put them back with her for the day. We use 5 foot dog run panels to make a small pen for the kids in the does stall. Then everyone can still see each other, but no nursing.
Have fun. Oh, and I would wait till your ND's are older before breeding them. They are adorable though.

 

[AnnaS]

The blood test is your best bet- http://www.biotracking.com/biopryn.php

I'd also guess she is bred. Goats will absolutely breed with their nursing sons if they are in heat. A doe in heat knows no bounds. BUT if she is not bred, and you dry her off, she will probably get fat. Fat does can have problems breeding too. So I think it would be worth it to Bio-Pryn her and know for sure.

 

[Freeholder]

While good grass hay can be very high in protein, dairy does need a LOT of calcium to replace what they are losing in their milk, and grass hay just doesn't have enough of that. That's what the alfalfa is for -- it's high in calcium (as well as being high protein). If you can't get alfalfa hay there, you can feed alfalfa pellets. A couple of pounds of pellets, plus all the grass hay she wants, and as much grain as she needs for the milk she's putting out, should be a good diet. And do get a good goat mineral for her with plenty of copper. I think you'll see a difference in her coat in a few months.

Kathleen

 

[sungirl]

And do get a good goat mineral for her with plenty of copper. I think you'll see a difference in her coat in a few months.

Kathleen

I do agree with getting some good minerals, make sure they are loose & not blocks. If not goat mineral, that is JUST for goats, (don't buy anything sheep & goat.) Get a dairy cow mineral.
I would like to say that most Toggenburgs grow long hairy coats in the winters. To me she looks healthy, but still could use a bit of mineral to add some shine. (Black Oil SunFlower Seeds, also known as BOSS will help also. The same ones for birds.)

Patty.

 

[sungirl]

I also would like to note her kids look very small for nine month old bucklings. If they arn't miniture breed % I would worry they would have a hard time servicing the doe. My nine month old Alpine buckling would be taller and maybe just big as your doe.

Patty.

 

[Freeholder]

Patty, I'm pretty sure that she said the bucklings have been separated from their mother, and that the small goats in the picture are the Nigie doelings.

Cow mineral MIGHT work, but make certain that it does not contain urea, which can kill goats. Horse mineral is a better choice if goat mineral can't be found.

It's true that Toggenburgs do often get quite long coats in the winter; that wasn't what I was commenting about. Additional copper in the diet should make a difference in the coat color, making it darker and richer.

Kathleen

 

[togg75]

She does have Toggenburg genetics, and the coat is normal for Toggs especially pure bloods. You have a special little girl there enjoy her.

 

[Minelson]

She has a very sweet face! Congratulations!

 

[eam]

Thanks everyone. I'll take note of all the suggestions. I guess, then that I'll have to dry her off. Even though we only get 1 1/2 quarts every other day, I was getting used to having her milk! That's my dilemma. If she's not pregnant, there goes my bit of milk when I dry her off.

If she is pregnant, though, I know it's best for her.

Yes, those are the Nigie doelings in the picture with her. Although having said that, her bucklings seem to us to be quite small for 9 months old. They're definitely bigger than the ND but significantly smaller than Hannah. But again, a question for another post.

We do give her BOSS as a treat out of our hands; we have some that we grew (with grand plans for making sunflower oil that didn't pan out the way we expected!) and she loves them. We use them more to get her to do what we want than as an actual feed so maybe we should increase them.

We can get alfalfa pellets and alfalfa cubes (but not alfalfa hay) at the feed store. Does it matter which we get?

Again, thanks everyone for such helpful suggestions. You can be sure she's having changes in her diet!
Elizabeth

 

[Madfarmer]

Go with the alfalfa pellets. The cubes tend to be too large for the goat to take in one bite, & too hard for them to bit in pieces. Pellets are much easier.

Madfarmer

 

[fishhead]

Pellets and cubes are just compressed hay.

 

[eam]

Hannah is now eating minerals and alfalfa pellets along with her grain and hay. She seems quite content. Either we'll have kids sometime in the near future or one fat, happy goat!

I've started feeling her ligaments (definitely pencil-like) and started to feel her right side (just in case I can tell anything). So far, the right side feels the same as the left to me. But perhaps I'll become more attuned to small changes the more I do it.

Thanks everyone for your help!
Elizabeth