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Abscess questions

6K views 23 replies 9 participants last post by  beeman97 
#1 ·
One of our 2-month-old piglets developed some lumps that seem to be abscesses. They first appeared about a week ago, as two lumps just above the pig's scrotum, and we thought it was just a hernia. Over time the lumps became larger and harder, so we decided to butcher him tonight, since that's where he was headed soon anyway... :) Well, it turns out there were a lot more lumps once we got him cut open; about 8 or 10 in the fatty tissue, and even one small one in the liver. When we cut them open they were full of thick green goo (pictures attached), and researching this has led us to conclude that they must have been abscesses. The question is, what would have caused these internal lumps? And most importantly, can we still eat this little critter???!!! Or does anyone have any other suggestions as to what they might have been, if not abscesses?

BTW, this is an intact male.

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(The dark green flecks are just pieces of grass from the piece falling onto the lawn.)
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#5 ·
Pete, this is very common with commercial hogs...not as much in the states anymore but its what you hear the hog guys call tumors, you have an advanced case caused by years of not addressing the problem in the breeding barn. Your hogs by my guess area york- landrace mix, I just hate landrace hogs. It took years to develpoe the problem and will take years to fix. Some hogs are very sensitive with their diets, they have been bred to grow very fast on certain foods - when you feed a mix of everything to these hogs they don't break it down right. I known it kills you to hear that. In the last 2 years I have had two high dollar purchases have to be destroyed - they looked great but where not genetically sound upon review. If your hogs are heritage, my answer is off base, but if they are confinement hogs... I pretty sure I'm right. They need the exact formula feed they where bred for or best they need culling completely and starting over.
 
#6 ·
I saw the post yesterday and did not respond. Looking closely at the top picture you will see 2 pocklike marks, one on each leg. My experience with hogs has me to conclude that the abscesses are a result of infection and the pock marks support my opinion. These animals have been exposed to conditions that generated lots of scratches/cuts/scrape/bites that broke the skin and thus the infection. I would not consume the flesh.
 
#7 ·
thats not what I'd call an abscess. Abscesses I have seen tend to be larger and less localized than these - usually full of mayonnaise-like purulent matter. They nearly explode under the pressure. (yuckeypitooey -I can almost taste it) Most of them were a result of "pressure sores" from a heavy "downer" hog (or cow) laying on a hip, lets say - or from an injection site -probably dirty needle or surface contamination.
I agree, I have lanced alot of abscesses....This is different.
 
#8 ·
The pigs are in an overgrown field, rooting and pushing and shoving with their littler mates and their mother. The pig did have a fair number of minor scratches and nicks, likely caused by pushing their way through a bit of brush, as they love to do. My CHILDREN if undressed and cleaned would show similar scratches from similar activities.

If these are abscesses, they were caused by bacteria, and bacteria are killed by cooking. Why could you not cook it well and eat the meat?

I'm thinking it is Pyaemia, explained below:

http://www.nadis.org.uk/BPEX Bulletins/Carcase Condemnation.pdf
 
#9 ·
I am of the opinion that I am correct and support my position. These are generalized abscesses and I feel that the processing plant would condemn the carcass. I have seen some things that they will permit to pass and I would not risk eating them either. You have no idea as to the exact source of the bacteria and the risk to health is too great. In a processing plant the line would be stopped after cutting into the abscess as you did until everything was cleaned and replacement knives were provided.
 
#10 ·
Wind in Her Hair said:
thats not what I'd call an abscess. Abscesses I have seen tend to be larger and less localized than these - usually full of mayonnaise-like purulent matter. They nearly explode under the pressure. (yuckeypitooey -I can almost taste it) Most of them were a result of "pressure sores" from a heavy "downer" hog (or cow) laying on a hip, lets say - or from an injection site -probably dirty needle or surface contamination.

agman, those pock marks could also be from getting killed. :)
I agree with agman. Not all abscesses are the same. I'm willing to bet that if you cut that pig you will find more in the joints.

I wouldn't eat it.
 
#11 ·
We're on the same page, agmantoo. If you follow the link to read up about Pyaemia, you will see that it is characterized by generalized abscesses, and that the meat is condemned.

If I cook the *snot* out of it, can I feed it to my two strapping GSDs? After all, they do eat raw rabbits and opposums and raccoons on occasion... :)
 
#17 ·
Hmmm...I just found this on the Net this morning. Kinda makes you wonder...

C705 Caseous lymphadenitis

A caseous abscessation of lymph nodes and internal organs caused by Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis. The disease occurs worldwide and is an important endemic infection in regions with large sheep and goat populations. Economic losses result from reduced weight gain, reproductive efficiency, and milk production, as well as from condemnation of carcasses and devaluation of hides. Although principally an infection of sheep and goats, sporadic disease also occurs in horses and cattle, and water buffalo, wild ruminants, primates, pigs, and fowl.
 
#18 ·
interesting. I think that is what it is. Did the contents have odor? CL does not have the odor like "puss infection" It can be almost a toothpaste consistancy.
Do some research on it. I know with the goats, my philosophy is, if you have them, it will happen eventually. I know of some breeders who will acutally (and I DON'T condone this practice) inject the abcess with formaldyhyde (sp). However that does nothing for the internal abcesses. It is VERY contagious and will live forever in the ground, on the fence posts etc...Burn whatever you can.
 
#20 ·
Pete, I'm going to have to agree with wind, I have unfortunately had alot of experience with the abcesses ag is talking about...and it's that not what you have. I will try to post some pics next time I treat a hog with before and after pics. You are on base with what you posted later. If Ag is right, and a simple scratch is to blame your pigs have serious immune issues... a hog should be able to fight and scratch all day and then lay in the filth unaffected.
 
#22 ·
As much as I appreciate agman's input, he is incorrect in his assumptions.

The scratches on the pigs legs are just that, scratches. As I said before, my pigs, goats, chickens and children all push and shove their way through the brush, and as such I'm sure they are all scratched up a bit. Maybe not the goats, they seem to dance through the thickest brush. :) I can definitily say that I would have noticed surface abscesses forming, bursting and healing. I noticed the ones in the scrotum (the only visible abbesses) but thought initially (when they were still small) that it was an intestinal hernia, which I have never seen before so I have no comparison point. When it got bigger over a week or so, I decided to butcher to head off any other problems. That was when I discovered the internal abscesses.

I have no idea what went wrong with this pig and why. I don't believe it had anything to do with bad hog barn genetics or neglected abscesses. The other five piglets and the mom show no sign of any problems.

I guess it's just one of those freaky things. Next time I would lance the two abscesses on the pigs scrotum and give huge doses of penicillin for a couple weeks. No sense in butchering a pig you can't eat.

Pete
 
#23 ·
RedneckPete: The abcess does not look quite right to me, but it may or less just be the way it is photographed and tissue around it. I have seen some bizarre looking abcesses when I worked for the vet. I feel this question has drawn alot of good feedback, but going way out in left field on some matters. I honestly cannot make a suggestion to you as to what may of caused this, without having seen it myself. I can make assumptions but you may have a case of a simple rogue infection.
In my experience with abcesses in a pig we had a litter of piglets born let's see....last April I guess it was, one piglet had a puncture wound caused when momma broke the cord. He was very down when I got to him (they were born at night) and I pepped him up, flushed the wound, and ran him up to the vets office, as I did not feel like suturing a newborn piglet without some local anesthetic to keep him from wiggling away since I was the only one home to do so. Well, the vet flushed it again with saline, sutured, and was done with it. Never thought any more about it as he was fine. (In hind sight he did bleed alot but with a newborn piglet and the area I wasn't too concerned. The vet also used dissolving PDS II stiches which I also found odd but ignored it) Well about 6 weeks later he formed a knot near where the sutures had been. So I checked it and it was firm. Well I stuck a needle into the knot to see if I could pull out any fluid, I got a whitish fluid, very much resembling momma's milk.... finding this odd I took it to the vets office and proceeded to say I felt he had a hernia and to check the fluid. Well the vet (this is a new vet who I cannot stand, same who did the sutures) she proceeded to just stare at me and tell me it was impossible for it to be a hernia as she did the suturing and closed the wall, she couldn't of made a mistake). Anyways she took the syringe looked at it and told me that it did not come from a pig. I told her my thoughts and and left. So going on that it was a hernia I decided I would keep and eye on it as he was a butcher pig anyways and let it be. Well about 2 months later he starts forming knots, literarly overnight behind his ears, near the perineal and scrotal areas. I knew these were abcesses and put him on a round of antibiotics, he has a low grade fever and never was amiss in any other way. The next morning he was down, and had an anal prolapse, needless to say I put him down on the post. I checked him over and found he had more subq cysts on him. I performed the necropsy and discovered a prolific systemic series of abcesses. The cause was the kicker. I found that the when the vet sutured she caught the intestine, a hernia had indeed formed since it was attached to the outside wall and as he was growing it put more and more stress on the loop of intestine causing the intestine to begin to become necrotic the pig was nothing but a septic infection on four legs. However he never showed any signs of distress until the prolapse. He ate full feed, drank, ran, played, rooted, never slowed down. This amazes me as he had a large blockage that had to of been there for a while, but he never showed any distress. Well needless to say I took his carcass up to the office and set it on the table in front of her for her to see herself as this pig suffered needlessly.

Anyways...sometimes these things occur for various reasons. I have seen a seed cause an abcess when it was lodged under the skin from a laceration. In my opinion I doubt this was the case. It could of been a simple staph infection that went rampant. Who knows. In anycase I would keep and eye on the rest of the pigs you have, but I think this will probably be limited to him. I would also not touch the meat with a ten foot poll. Cooking may kill things but I'm a germ nut anyways. If this is a staph infection the last thing you need is to consume the meat. I posted in the goats forum to a lady who had a goat with an abcess. I told her that I saw a girl nearly loose one of her fingers from an infection caused by draining an abcess without gloves on. She had her nails done three days previous to that and the infection set in. Abcesses are nasty nasty things that the utmost hygeine and sterilization should be used in treating it, to include lancing and draining wounds, or removing them entirely. To chance this in the meat....well it's your health not mine.
Wish the best for your other ones, let us know if the present any signs or symptoms. I'll be curious to know. I feel this is an isolated incident however. Sorry I can't be of more help.
 
#24 ·
Well i have watched this all week with interest but alas, i was unable to respond because i couldnt get signed in on my other pc ,,, but anyway,,,,, NO do not eat the meat from that hog, & 2nd & more important take one of those things(absesses?) to a vet & have it analized to find out exactly what caused this to happen. it could have been caused by 100 different things including something contagous to the rest of your hogs, if you have more. better to spend alittle on a vet exam of the tissue & be sure then to lose an entire herd to what ever is causing this to happen.
this of course is JMHO & you can do what ya like.
Rick
 
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