The regulation of lead shot is for Ducks and Geese . Im not positive but i think its all 50 states . I know in the states i hunt FL , AL , LA you only use steel which is not as efficient and leads to more wounded birds. Tungsten shoot is close to lead but far too expensive for the avg hunter. I have not researched it but i would imagine there are far more wounded birds that the poisoned ones. I think lead should be brought back

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

“In the last few years, the crippling rates for ducks are the lowest since we started keeping track in the mid-1950s,” he added.

Read more: http://www.wildfowlmag.com/gear-acc...ccessories/shotguns/lead-shot-still-controversial-20-years-later/#ixzz57DpBjABE

 

I follow REGI or Raptor education group from WI. Their facebook page shows many Eagles poisoned from lead from eating deer I assume, the rehabilitation, and release. I think they try to get the word out on lead.

 

I follow REGI or Raptor education group from WI. Their facebook page shows many Eagles poisoned from lead from eating deer I assume, the rehabilitation, and release. I think they try to get the word out on lead.

I'd consider their postings suspect unless they can show actual scientific data.
I highly doubt they ingest enough lead from dead deer to be harmful.

I bet they also ask for donations after showing those "poor poisoned Eagles"

 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe an eagle will get enough lead from eating deer. A deer might have a bullet, or even a shotgun slug , but not lead shot such as a duck might. Birds that are in danger of lead poison are typically bottom feeders that sift through the silt in areas of intense hunting that would have an abundance of lead shot.

 

For the past 40 years lead exposure and lead poisoning have been major health issues for bald eagles received by or admitted to our clinic.
The statistics are alarming:

• 90% of the bald eagles received each year (120-130) for all types of problems have elevated lead residues in their blood
• 20–25% percent of these eagles have sufficiently high levels to cause clinical lead poisoning. Most of these birds die or are euthanized.
• In the last 24 years, over 500 eagles received or admitted to our clinic have either died or had to be euthanized due to lead poisoning.
• Data on location of origin and seasonal timing of lead poisoning events in eagles clearly indicate that spent lead ammunition from both shotguns and rifles is the source of lead exposure.

https://www.raptor.umn.edu/our-research/lead-poisoning

 

I haven't done my own research. But, I am highly skeptical. The ban on lead shot for waterfowl hunting was based on the way they fed. They would ingest lead incidentally from the way they ate. It was easily observed and logical. I would have to see some rationale that make sense how bald eagles en masse could possibly ingest lead from deer hunting.

 

From the sound of it over my lake in the fall season, the kill ratio per shot taken is pretty low--I'm glad they're using steel. And they're state cops in that spot every year.......

geo

 

I would imagine the lower crippled numbers are from tungsten use. I have shot them and they are as close to lead as you can get. It still is not the same. I like lead , it's cheap and efficient. If they made a substitute that meets the exact same parameters as lead I would get on board with it.

 

If they made a substitute that meets the exact same parameters as lead I would get on board with it.

You could use Gold.
It's softer and heavier

Most come to the same conclusion, do you deny their experience, or that the birds are suffering from lead ingestion?

Those types of organizations often play loose with the facts when it means they can get money.

I see tear jerker ads from the Human Society of the US, while some of their members have been caught killing dogs and throwing them in dumpsters.

Lead was outlawed for waterfowl several decades ago.

If I Google "common sense gun control" most sites will also come to the "same conclusion" which will still be misinformation.
It will come from the same crowd that wants to ban hunting and the use of lead (or any other ) bullets.

Yes, they do ask for donations, why wouldn't they??

They won't get as much if they tell you the birds are healthy.
They say Eagles have "elevated lead levels" but that could be coming from water, since many people also show those symptoms but aren't eating carrion.

They say it's "been a problem for 40 years" but Eagle populations have grown quite a bit during that time.

https://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/population/index.html

Since the bald eagle was fully listed under the Endangered Species Act, the number of nesting bald eagle pairs and productivity (number of young fledged per nest) have been monitored throughout the lower 48 states. This effort has produced an excellent data set which was used to develop the population table, map and chart in the links below. Follow these links to see how bald eagle numbers have responded since DDT was banned and the Endangered Species Act was passed.

https://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/population/chtofprs.html

Between the early 1980's and 2000, most States conducted annual bald eagle surveys. Since then, many states recognized that annual surveys were no longer necessary. That is why you will not see annual data after 2000.

1963 to 2006

 

I've wondered if a steel shot that was coated with a biodegradable plastic would be viable. Say, a soy based urethane. It would have a natural lubricity and a heat resistance. And I think that it could be done economically.

 

don't believe the stats posted on eagle lead poisoning. Also doubt many deer are killed with lead shot

 

Around here they eagles eat more dead small animals than deer and there are more wounded small game and birds than deer. one dove could be wounded and have 15 to 20 pellets in it and still fly off . Most dead dear that are feasted on by buzzards and eagles are hit by cars. Its only because they are beautiful and majestic and feel goodisim . If the lead was a problem we would not have so many of the black headed vultures

 

The stats are only as good as the amount eagles/others that are admitted and tested for lead levels. I would think many more birds of any species die unnoticed. The studies I see note a connection that is coinciding with hunting seasons.

 

Federal law requires waterfowl hunting with non toxic shot, so pretty much anything but lead.

 

However, the writers for that tv show are too stupid to know that, so they just refer to the shot as being lead.

"Reality" tv shows are scripted, very poorly, but the characters are told what to say and do, from what I have read, all of them.



In reality, eagles are probably getting all that lead from eating old paint, but none of the "scientists" wants to admit it.

 

Birds don't have teeth to chew their food. They eat rocks on purpose and those rocks wind up in the muscular gizzard where the food is ground up. Waterfowl pick up lead pellets from the bottom of sloughs because they think the pellets are rocks. The lead gets ground up and absorbed, poisoning the bird. Eagles eat ducks and the lead pellets in the gizzard. Then they get poisoned too.

When lead shot was outlawed there were a bunch of hunters that tried to use steel shot at the longer ranges they were used to with lead. There were more misses and crippling until they figured it out. Hunters today know what the lethal range of steel shot is. "A man has to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood

The only question is what am I going to do with the three pound coffee cans full of #2 and #4 lead shot? I don't use much of it every year by adding weight to Pinewood Derby cars.

 

The only question is what am I going to do with the three pound coffee cans full of #2 and #4 lead shot?

You can still use it in most states to hunt "upland" game, or it could be melted and recast into slugs and bullets or fishing lures and weights.

 

You can't shoot lead shot over water anymore, that was banned decades ago for reasons stated above .... bottom feeding ducks ingested it and got lead poisoning. swans mentioned are bottom feeders.

Eagles aren't going to be getting any of this shot, they don't feed on bottoms of lakes. They primarily eat fish,, small game, road killed big game and big game that succumbs to other types of death. They're not going to eat a lead slug out of a hunter wounded & lost deer either. They have to be getting it through airborne or water based pollutants?

 

You can't shoot lead shot over water anymore, that was banned decades ago for reasons stated above .... bottom feeding ducks ingested it and got lead poisoning. swans mentioned are bottom feeders.

Eagles aren't going to be getting any of this shot, they don't feed on bottoms of lakes. They primarily eat fish,, small game, road killed big game and big game that succumbs to other types of death. They're not going to eat a lead slug out of a hunter wounded & lost deer either. They have to be getting it through airborne or water based pollutants?

I had heard they banned it for waterfowl to keep the lead out of the drinking water. Fish ingest as it breaks down then eagles. Also we drink it sooner or later.

 

Why not just simply google lead poisoning eagles? Plenty of sources of information. Most come to the same conclusion, do you deny their experience, or that the birds are suffering from lead ingestion?
Yes, they do ask for donations, why wouldn't they??

 

Eagles died due to DDT. Thus so known, they have recovered.

 

To be clear, the show did not say "lead shot". I just assumed that not being a hunter myself. DH said to me that they don't use lead for duck hunting.

I do use lead sinkers and will look for alternatives this coming summer.

 

not buying into that BS

 

Ok, then google Condors and lead poisoning if you want even more info.

The organization I mentioned doesn't just rescue eagles with lead poisoning, it's just one that has the ability to deal with poisoned eagles too.

Do you think they are all intentionally lying and have something against hunters, or have some vested interest in pushing copper ammo? (I'm not familiar with ammo, just see it as the suggested alternative)

Yes, lead could be coming from other sources, but so many wildlife organizations, DNR, etc. are testing waters from rivers, lakes and streams as a routine. I'll look into that as well.

 

Ok, then google Condors and lead poisoning if you want even more info.

The organization I mentioned doesn't just rescue eagles with lead poisoning, it's just one that has the ability to deal with poisoned eagles too.
Do you think they are all intentionally lying and have something against hunters, or have some vested interest in pushing copper ammo? (I'm not familiar with ammo, just see it as the suggested alternative)

Yes, lead could be coming from other sources, but so many wildlife organizations are testing waters from rivers, lakes and streams as a routine. I'll look into that as well.

A bit of friendly advice- some here aren’t worth arguing with. They will have established their position and no matter what evidence is brought forth to counter it will not budge. They will pick apart and attack all sources without providing any of their own. Good luck in your actual research. The truth is out there.

 

same with condors, it is all hype

 

Bald eagle populations have recovered. But that doesn’t mean that things like lead shot can’t and don’t poison and kill eagles. One has little to do with the other.

I know the Fish and Wildlife Service is suspect but here’s some interesting reading for those who enjoy fact over opinion.

“16. Use an approved non-toxic shot when hunting migratory waterfowl, consistent with current hunting regulations. Eagles can be poisoned by elevated levels of lead after feeding on fish and waterfowl that have ingested lead shot or carrion killed with lead shot.”

https://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/recovery/qandas.html

 

Although lead from spent ammunition and lost fishing tackle is not readily released into aquatic and terrestrial systems, under some environmental conditions it can slowly dissolve and enter groundwater, making it potentially hazardous for plants, animals and perhaps even people if it enters water bodies or is taken up in plant roots.

“16. Use an approved non-toxic shot when hunting migratory waterfowl, consistent with current hunting regulations. Eagles can be poisoned by elevated levels of lead after feeding on fish and waterfowl that have ingested lead shot or carrion killed with lead shot.”

Note that was the last of 16 things listed to help the eagles, and merely suggests following the laws that have been in place for decades.

Two important factors made the recovery of the bald eagle possible, the most critical being the federal government’s ban on the use of DDT in the United States in 1972. Second, the eagle was added to the list of threatened and endangered species under the Endangered Species Act, which reduced threats to bald eagle habitat, including nesting sites and summer and winter roost sites.

Although some threats, such as contaminants or habitat loss may occur on a localized basis, the Service has determined that none of the existing or potential threats, either alone or in combination with others, are likely to cause the bald eagle to become in danger of extinction within the foreseeable future throughout all or any significant portion of its range.

 

Seems like the tree huggers are only finding ways to make hunting and fishing more expensive for those who do it.

 

Yes, it's largely an offshoot of the anti-hunting sentiments.

 

A suggestion and a requirement are two different things ya know! Nowhere do I see any anti hunting sentiment included. Since you don't see a "crisis" should the rehab groups just euthanize lead poisoned birds instead of treating them? Should they just give up researching the cause of lead poisoning? Should they stop offering alternatives to lead just because it may cost more?

 

Nowhere do I see any anti hunting sentiment included.

Of course not because they can't be that honest.
They seldom come right out and state they want to ban hunting altogether, so they do it incrementally by banning the most effective projectile material.

A suggestion and a requirement are two different things ya know!

Yes, they are different words, concepts, ideas, etc.
For them to say "follow the laws" was really pointless.
The overwhelming majority of hunters do that already.

 

If you want to help any wildlife, buy a hunting license. Buy a federal and state duck stamp.
Join the National Turkey Foundation, These groups are the ones improving habitat, spending
their own money to make sure all species have abundant habitat. That is the secret to the eagle problem. From looking at history, the fastest way to have abundant numbers of a species, is to put a season on it.

 

wildlifecenter.org (out of VA) help and advise/wildlife issues/lead and toxicity in raptors. Explains lead toxicity in more detail and does not hold a position on hunters other than educating all, and appear to be in touch with hunters concerns in the frequently asked questions.