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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you loath yourself for being a citizen of the United States, why?

If you loathe other citizens of the United States, please tell us why.

If you loath our country, please tell us why?

What has occurred in your life experience to cause self-loathing?

How does it affect your everyday life and your relationships with other citizens of the United States who do not loathe themselves or their country?

This is not a joke, a prank or meant to be hateful.

I am very interested in trying to understand the self-loathing mentality. I believe if I am somehow able to understand what causes someone to despise themselves as Americans, who despises our country yet who choose to remain American citizens, and who have no plan to leave the country, I will gain valuable insight into the destructive nature of what is going on around us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, exactly.

My question is sincere. I am not trying to foster hate.

My sole purpose is to try to gain insight and understanding into this unique, albeit self-destructive, thought process.

What makes a person hate themselves simply because they are American?

What makes them hate our country?

Why is our country so much worse (in their minds) than other countries where life is harder but generally one does not see this bizarre self-hatred among the citizens?

Someone please tell me why some Americans hate themselves simply for being American? I am genuinely striving to understand this.
 

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I'm having a hard time forumulating this concept in my mind. Are there actually people that you perceive as loathing themselves because they're American? How does that self-loathing manifest? What kinds of things do you see people doing or saying that indicates they loathe themselves because of being Americans?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re-editing, sorry.
Yes, there are those who loathe themselves SIMPLY for being American. And I cannot understand it either, which is why I am asking.

Yes, of course there are, and one only has to watch national network news to see it. Some people feel guilty because they have worked hard and achieved and are attacked by those who would drag them down; people who would see the successful fail simply because they (the unsuccessful) have not achieved or because they are not able to move beyond their personal issues; ergo the successful are browbeaten by the unsuccessful (IMO) to come to loathe their own acheivement.

I won't point to any specific websites, news sites, or individuals who have made such quotes because I would therefore open myself up to accusations of being biased.

What I suggest instead is to google the words 'American self loathing' and read a few of the 500,000+ sites that come up, and form their own opinions.

Oh come now, surely on such a broad-minded forum such as this with such a cross-section of American culture, there must be *someone* willing to help me understand self-loathing?
 

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I'm having a hard time forumulating this concept in my mind. Are there actually people that you perceive as loathing themselves because they're American? How does that self-loathing manifest? What kinds of things do you see people doing or saying that indicates they loathe themselves because of being Americans?
I see it, in the "blame America first" crowd. There are plenty of them in America, and plenty right here at HT.
 

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It is a good question Rose:) I just don't get people who do so, I wonder if they had to live in places like Russia or Iran for about six months if they would feel differently. We aren't perfect but we as a country try to do the right thing and NO ONE even comes close to the fredoms we have. It seems like this kind of attitude has worsen ten fold in the last eight years, it seems like some can't seperate their dislike for Bush and out country. It seems being he is the president that everything we do has to be bad or having evil intentions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I agree with the last few posters.

And I want to reiterate, I am simply trying to educate myself, trying to 'wrap my mind around' the concept, because it is quite alien to me.

I see it, I hear it, I see it enacted, but it is completely incomprehensible to me. It is as if I am watching beings from another planet. I cannot understand at all, but I am striving to.
 

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If you loath yourself for being a citizen of the United States, why?

If you loathe other citizens of the United States, please tell us why.

If you loath our country, please tell us why?

What has occurred in your life experience to cause self-loathing?

How does it affect your everyday life and your relationships with other citizens of the United States who do not loathe themselves or their country?

This is not a joke, a prank or meant to be hateful.

I am very interested in trying to understand the self-loathing mentality. I believe if I am somehow able to understand what causes someone to despise themselves as Americans, who despises our country yet who choose to remain American citizens, and who have no plan to leave the country, I will gain valuable insight into the destructive nature of what is going on around us.
WOW! Where are you finding thses people? I don't know anyone who fits tht description. I haven't seen anything but positive atitudes since the presidential election, even out here in Kansas. Sure a few were a bit disapointed for a day or sso but then they decided to get OVER it and get on with life & try to get back to the old CAN-DO American Spirit that used to be so popular among Americans.
The rest just need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get with the REAT of America and work towards the future. No time to sit around feeling sorry for yourself, get the heck UP and get to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JON IN kANSAS
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No no no, I am not talking necessarily or specifically about the election. Do NOT misunderstand me on this.

I am talking about people in America in general. I am speaking about people regardless of age, ethnicity, political or religious affiliation, or anything else issue-specific. I hope I have made that plain.

And I do not want anyone to start pointing fingers at anyone here on this forum. That is not necessary and not what I intend.

I simply want to know what makes people loathe themselves for being American. I don't know how to frame the question any more plainly than that.

I am looking for the proverbial kernel of truth about this issue. I want to get to the heart of the matter, everything else stripped away. There is a reason people like this hate themselves for being Americans, and I want to know what the reason is. I know it's there somewhere.
 

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I take Rose's question as why are some people embarass to be Amercians or why do they feel that way? It is a interesting question and I llok foward to hearing from people that believe in such a manner.
 

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Sorry, I am utterly confused, I'm not too sure I've met someone that "loathed" themselves for being American. I've heard people upset about government, laws, elections, taxes, or what have you but I don't think that equals loathing being an American. Just because you want to change a part of something doesn't make you anti-American. Is that what you mean?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No, sorry, it's not.

What I mean is, quite literally, a self-loathing that some people feel simply because they are American, and a collateral loathing for other Americans simply because they also are Americans.

As I said, if you are so inclined, please go to Google and put in the words 'American self loathing" and perhaps that will explain better this odd concept than I can.

I simply want to know the source of this phenomena.
 

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After looking at Wiki's definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-loathing of self-hatred/self loathing, I would guess that it's a type of mental illness based in fear that's a personal thing to each individual. Self-hatred is an aberration that manifests in many different ways and for many reasons.

Would it be safe to say that if a person hates themself because of their nationality that it's because of defined things about their nation that they hate and that they feel incapable and helpless to effect changes to those things and/or to effect changes in their own attitudes about it?

If a person hates their nation then they fear their nation. When a person hates something they also fear it but if they don't feel helpless they may try to retaliate and overcome the thing they fear. When a person feels helplessness with the fear then they hate their own fear and hate themself for not being able to conquer their personal fear and the thing they fear and hate. Therefore self-hatred of one's self for being a particular nationality is helplessness, hatred and fear of their nation.

If some people indulge themselves in self-hatred because of their personal fear of their nation they might try to conquer their fear and hatred by conquering / destroying their nation and bring it tumbling down.

I think it would be better to identify and change/eliminate the things about the nation that cause the fear rather than trying to destroy the nation and consequently destroying oneself.

People who hate theirselves eventually destroy theirselves.... one way or another.... and they often take those around them down with them. Change the things that cause the fear and the fear, hatred and helplessness also changes into self-esteem and self-confidence.
 

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RoseGarden allow me to illuminate this for you. The reason you are recieving no answers to your post is because the people to whom you are speaking don't see themselves that way. They think that they love America (or America's potential to become socialist). You should simplify and say "if you think like Micheal Moore or George Soros and agree with Moveon.org why do you hate America?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Again, this is not a politically motivated question.

Or perhaps it is, and I am not seeing it as such.

Perhaps those who self-loathe do so for purely political reasons? I don't know.

Naturelover, thank you so much for your very thoughtful reply. It had crossed my mind that self loathing might be a mental illness. It would certainly explain it in a tidy and neat way. Your logic is very good, makes the mental illness case very well.

I suppose one reason I don't understand that kind of thinking is that I have overcome so much in my life, I never felt that I was helpless to change my circumstances. That's why I can't 'relate' to people who say they are not able to do things because they are poor or haven't been to college or are of whatever ethnicity or religion or gender. I believe we are all capable of anything, and we live in a country where you can do whatever you want; you just have to pull yourself up by the boot straps as someone above said, and get to work.

But I suppose if one were mentally ill, that might present a problem after all. Mental illness is something that often cannot be overcome without professional help.

And I do agree that those who hate themselves eventually destroy themselves. It's a pity that they sometimes destroy innocent people around them in the process.

Please tell HBB hello!
 

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RoseGarden allow me to illuminate this for you. The reason you are recieving no answers to your post is because the people to whom you are speaking don't see themselves that way. They think that they love America (or America's potential to become socialist). You should simplify and say "if you think like Micheal Moore or George Soros and agree with Moveon.org why do you hate America?"
I disagree. I think the reason why she's receiving no answers right now is because the vast majority of the people she's speaking to have all gone to bed and haven't seen this topic yet. I't's 3 a.m. on the east coast and midnight on the westcoast. Give it until tomorrow for more people to see it.
 

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Perhaps those who self-loathe do so for purely political reasons? I don't know.
RG, there are all kinds of self-loathing, not all just political. The obese person who hates themself because they're fat (for whatever reason). The smoker who can't quit smoking and hates themself because of it so smokes even more to console themself. The drug addict who knows he is committing suicide but can't stop killing himself. The perverted child abuser who can't overcome or understand the high they get from causing misery for the child. These are all sicknesses of the mind and not all mental sicknesses can be fixed. People who are sick like that often isolate themselves from the rest of society because of their fear and self-loathing.

Perhaps some Americans loathe themselves as Americans because they perceive the nation as becoming insular, closing in on itself and isolating itself from the rest of the global community? That's not just a political thing, it's a social thing too. Maybe people who hate their country and themselves need to expand outward to learn and participate more with the global community.

All just sheer speculation on my part. I still have a hard time identifying with the whole concept of hating one's self because of hating one's nation.

Thank you and blessings on you - I will say hi to HBB from you, I know he'll be pleased, he likes you so much! :sing::D
 

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...... We aren't perfect but we as a country try to do the right thing and NO ONE even comes close to the fredoms we have......
Billy, it's true you aren't perfect - nobody is. It's true that for the most past you all try to do the right thing (depending on what you as a nation think is the right thing) :shrug: .... but it's NOT true that no one comes even close to the freedoms you have.... that's a common American misconception. There are some other nations that have many more freedoms than America does. You might not know who they are or what their extra freedoms are partly because you've been politically discouraged from learning about them and partly because those other nations don't abuse their freedoms and so you just don't hear about it. Propoganda is designed to put blinkers and blind-folds on the ordinary, joe-blow common people. Perhaps the people who have tossed off their blnkers are the ones who experience self-loathing due to loathing the nation's people who are happy to keep the blinkers on as well as the ones who placed the blinkers there in the first place.
 

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I'd like to step in and agree with naturelover here.. it is a popular misconception that the United States is unique in the political and social freedoms it extends to its citizens. Certainly in the colonial era this was true.. however, post 9-11? No. We can't claim the mantle of the country with the most freedoms.

I'd also like to say that it doesn't "diminish" the United States if Sweden, Denmark, Norway, England, Germany and France have greater freedoms in some areas than the United States.. any more than it diminishes those countries if the United States offers greater flexibility in an area one of those countries controls through social norms or legislation. This isn't a card game with a big pot on the table, win or lose, winner takes all. It is simply the way different societies have chosen to organize themselves.

It doesn't make you any less American, or any less fond of your being an American, if you are able to observe that another society has placed rather less restrictions on their societies.
 
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