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Was reaading in the Sierra magazine about a small Ford diesel car that seat 5 being made that will get 68 MPG. The only catch to this is that is only being made to be sold in Europe. How fair is that ?? I guess the oil and gas companies in the US won't allow us to get a bargin in our gas mileage. Anyone know anymore about this and why not us too !!:confused:
 

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It ain't the oil co.'s, it's the emissions and safety standards that the car wont meet here in the U.S. European standards aren't as strict as ours.


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Happy Scrounger
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Ninny is right. Diesel is not favored here in the US. There are horribly difficult standards enacted on diesel engines...the latest went into effect in...2007? i think it was. The congress also enacted a law that makes diesel fuel be filtered by the oil companies further....raising the price of fuel.

The other problem is that the US companies think the US public won't BUY diesel cars. yah...stupid.....BUT when questioned about "diesel" as opposed to "gasoline" most people responded with diesel being dirty and polluting. Think back on the days of the trucks and their dark smoke rising from the exhaust...or the big diesel trains and the smell from trucks and buses....all that is gone now....has been since the 1980s...but it lingers in the minds of consumers.

Hopefully, with the fall of the "big 3" we'll start to see more diesels made.
 

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Others are right, but I think the Detroit mfgs are still scared about what they tried to sell us back in the late 70's early 80s (personal opinion only).

If you recall they took their standard cars/motors and tried to convert them to desiel.

It was not pretty.
 

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Hey! I had one of those. It was a Malibu Station Wagon, BIG thing....with a chrysler? diesel engine put in it. VERY strong car. Could pull a trailer without any problems. Loved that car. ...

Right up until it started nicken and diming me to death at 95,000 miles. holy mother...EVERYthing started to go. First the computer controller thing, then...2 batteries. BIG batteries. and without warning. just...DEAD and wouldn't hold a charge.

Then the water pump. then the glowplugs. then the alternator. Then the airconditioner. all before 100,000 miles. And BOY did that car screw with the minds of the GM mechanics at the dealer I bought it from. The engine shook rather badly and the bracket that holds the alternator actually broke. When I took it in to the dealer, the guy told me to go order the part from the parts desk. now...I'd been changing my own belts and oil, etc...so I knew what it looked like. The guy at the parts desk looked it up and said "okay..this one". I looked and said "no, it's larger and is an L shape". The man argued AT LENGTH with me and ended up just saying, "look, You may think you know what it looks like, but THIS is what the part actually IS". so....he ordered it. wouldn't talk to the mechanic. A few days later I went to pick up the car...the mechanic said "you ordered the wrong part". I went ballistic! WeBOTH went to the parts guy and he had the gall to say "diesel? GM don't make no diesel in a station wagon" ARGHGHGHGGHHH

anyway. I drove that car until someone ran a light and tore off the front end. I got a whole $900 for it from the insurance company since it had so many miles on it :(

but er...yah. they were horrors.
 

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It ain't the oil co.'s, it's the emissions and safety standards that the car wont meet here in the U.S. European standards aren't as strict as ours.


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Exactly right. If the government would GET OUT OF THE WAY we could have decent cars that got good mpg and didn't cost an arm and two legs.:grit:
 

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Just howling at the moon
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It's a version of the Ford Focus that will not pass emissions here. Say thank you Feds, EPA and Enviros.

The Loreno (sp?) is slated to come out in Germany next year. Original projects were for over 150mpg. Last I heard it end up getting rated at about 120mpg. But you will never see it here.
 

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My 81 chevy Chevette got 50 mpg most of the time sometimes it did better.
I suppose it will be the only vette I ever own.
 

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They made the Jeep Cherokee with a deisel for a while then you couldnt get them here but they built them here and shipped them out of the country.
Wonder if you can still get them In Canada?
 

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i think the environmental issues are just a front to make sure road taxes keep coming in. since the taxes are paid per gallon sold, 50% less fuel sold means 50% less tax revenue.

just my two cents.
 

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decent cars that got good mpg and didn't cost an arm and two legs
Out of curiosity I went to the ford and Chevrolet websites and did the "build it" option where you input the options and requirements for a vehcile and it spit out a price for you.

I was looking for a base model 1/2 ton 4x4 extended cab work truck. Very simple requirements. Extended cab, not a full four door with an 8 foot bed. It needed to be 4x4 and have an automatic transmission, locking rear differential, underbody skid plates, A/C and cruise control. Didn't need that silly OnStar. Didn't need leather seats or a DVD player. Didn't need chrome grill or fancy ghetto rims. Simple black exterior with a rubber mat interior with no carpet. Steel wheels with the largest size tires available. Just a simple, reliable, rugged work truck for the farm.

The ford was $33,000 and the Chevrolet was $32,000. You don't even want to ask about 3/4 ton diesels which is what I really need.

$35,000 for a bare bones basic 4x4 work truck. And Detroit wonders why they're hemorrhaging cash.
 

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i think the environmental issues are just a front to make sure road taxes keep coming in. since the taxes are paid per gallon sold, 50% less fuel sold means 50% less tax revenue.

just my two cents.

Good point. Is it OR that is looking to tax miles driven rather than gallons bought? I thought (not claiming fact) that either N or SC is looking at the same thing.

Gov tells you to conserve, force Mfgs mileage standards.

Then after we do all this, they tax us for taking the actions they pushed.

Next thing will be gov telling us all to eat less, lose weight. Then they will double tax on food because we are eating less.
 

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It ain't the oil co.'s, it's the emissions and safety standards that the car wont meet here in the U.S. European standards aren't as strict as ours.


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This is correct. Your beef should be with the federal government, not with Ford.
 

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Out of curiosity I went to the ford and Chevrolet websites and did the "build it" option where you input the options and requirements for a vehcile and it spit out a price for you.

I was looking for a base model 1/2 ton 4x4 extended cab work truck. Very simple requirements. Extended cab, not a full four door with an 8 foot bed. It needed to be 4x4 and have an automatic transmission, locking rear differential, underbody skid plates, A/C and cruise control. Didn't need that silly OnStar. Didn't need leather seats or a DVD player. Didn't need chrome grill or fancy ghetto rims. Simple black exterior with a rubber mat interior with no carpet. Steel wheels with the largest size tires available. Just a simple, reliable, rugged work truck for the farm.

The ford was $33,000 and the Chevrolet was $32,000. You don't even want to ask about 3/4 ton diesels which is what I really need.

$35,000 for a bare bones basic 4x4 work truck. And Detroit wonders why they're hemorrhaging cash.
And take into account that about three fourths of the components in those truck are made in third world countries for pennies on the dollar and you realize what a rip off it is.

What cracks me up is the new Dodge and Ford commercials that are so proud that they have pickups that get an amazing 20 mpg. Like that is something to be proud of??? But the clincher is that they did it while actually "increasing horsepower to 390"

Who in the sam hell needs a daily driver truck that has 390hp? Who actually needs a truck for work that has 390hp? No one. With the right drive train you can take a 4cylinder 100hp and pretty much do most anything 85 percent of the population needs in a full size truck.

Id rather have a 30mpg truck with a 6 cylinder rated at 200hp and the proper gearing than a luxury oriented 390 hp "work truck"
 

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The Jeep MB was born in the 1940's. Tough as nails, simple to work on, it could go darn near anywhere using only a 60hp engine.

Why can't they build 'em like that anymore?

Some interesting reading:

http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5578.pdf

Why can't they build them like that anymore?

It is your government, your fellow consumers, the manufacturers and the potential for liability.

The government has added so many safety restrictions to vehicles since the 1940's that it is nearly mind boggling. Crash safety, seat belts, braking distances, 5 MPH bumpers, etc.

Your fellow consumers have been in demand for the new, greatest, fastest, most powerful, sportiest, elegangant, cool, 'keeping up and passing the Jones' vehicles they can buy. Who wants a 10 year old car that runs perfect and has a spotless paint and interior when credit will buy you the coolest thing Japan has to offer this year? Look at Henry Ford and the Model T, and how Chevy cleaned his clock with new powerful engines, colors other than black, cars offered on credit, and an advertising campaign that stated "Step up to a Chevy."

(The only manufacturer that ever defied the above was VW with the Beetle, which merely sold on price. It eventually ran the same course.)

The manufacturers are to blame as well. One way to keep new cars selling is to offer new body styles, colors, features, etc. It is hard to make money on cheap, simple cars with no options. Look around at dealers, it is often very hard to find strip down cars on their lots. The buying public is to blame for this as well.

Liability is to blame as well. Just look at the lawsuits that have plagued the auto industry, with much of it justified. Rollovers, tires, child safety restraints, etc.

I could go on an on, but in a nut shell, those are some of the reasons.

Clove
 

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What cracks me up is the new Dodge and Ford commercials that are so proud that they have pickups that get an amazing 20 mpg. Like that is something to be proud of??? But the clincher is that they did it while actually "increasing horsepower to 390"

Who in the sam hell needs a daily driver truck that has 390hp? Who actually needs a truck for work that has 390hp? No one. With the right drive train you can take a 4cylinder 100hp and pretty much do most anything 85 percent of the population needs in a full size truck.

Id rather have a 30mpg truck with a 6 cylinder rated at 200hp and the proper gearing than a luxury oriented 390 hp "work truck"
One nice thing about diesels is that properly engineered you can adjust the HP and torque as needed. When you need economy and mileage you can set the computer to provide that. When you need 800HP and 1200 lb ft of torque you can dial that up too. Turbocharged diesels are about the perfect power plant for pickups and I wish manufacturers would put their engineering and research efforts there.

In a 3/4 ton truck gas engine I'd say that around 350-450 hp is about right. In a 1/2 ton I don't want to go any lower than 300-325 with 350 being about optimal. They're just too heavy and sluggish with anything less. My current pickup puts about 225 at the flywheel and it is painfully slow especially when loaded. My old 77 Ford farm truck had about 375 and it felt adequate but nothing more. My full sized bronco of the same vintage had a V-8 that put out 450 and it made that large, heavy Bronco quite nimble and it made for a pretty decent tow rig.
 
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