302 starting problems

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by moopups, Nov 18, 2006.

  1. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

    Messages:
    7,102
    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Location:
    In beautiful downtown Sticks, near Belleview, Fl.
    Ayep, the late 70's warhorse is not responding correctly, spins fine but refuses to start every time. Cleaned the carbon off the top of the rotor button, fired fine. Inside of the cap does not display carbonizing or corrusion. Viewing vapors when the air cleaner top is off, should this be flow rather than vapors when pumping the linkage? Accelator pump? Coil is cool to the touch. Electronic sweep appears normal. No vacuum leaks apparent. No missing when it does run, just stuck lifter clacking. This is her main broom :rolleyes: and I can't afford to replace it.
     
  2. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

    Messages:
    10,854
    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    Zone 7
    timing chain shot or rings worn to where there is too little vacuum to pull gas into the combustion chamber
     

  3. ovendoctor

    ovendoctor north of the lift bridge

    Messages:
    315
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    of it has a lot of miles on it id say its the timing chain
    they use a fiber gear on the cam from the factory
    sounds like it jumped a notch and that throws everything off
     
  4. CatsPaw

    CatsPaw Who...me?

    Messages:
    278
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Location:
    Owen Co., Indiana
    When this has happened to me in the past it was a cracked distributor cap. You wouldn't think that would stop an engine, but, when that insulation barrier is broken, the spark will bleed right off. Pull a plug. Do you get a good spark? Crank it with the plug out. Fuel should spray out. Get those two and it should go.
     
  5. Yeti

    Yeti Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    162
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Location:
    southern Michigan
    well if its a timming chain issue then it shouldn't start at all . I have had several small block fords and they are known for blowing all the teeth off the cam gear if its jumped. I would be more inclined to look at everything and see if its something you've over looked. start with plugs. pull out the #1 plug and see if its got spark by putting the plug back in the wire and cranking the engine while somebody watchs. if its got good spark pull the coil wire out of the distributor and stick into the intake so it doesn't make a mess of sparks. next look at the spark plug hole. use your finger to feel for the compression stroke(if it still has one). it should crank hard enough to blow your finger out of the hole. don't worry it won't suck your finger in the engine (but its not impossible). once you find the compression stroke of the #1 piston then look at the timming marks down the crank shaft pully & balencer. it may have a deep notch cut accrossed the face and it has to line up with the 0 mark on the timming indicator tab that sticks out over top of it.( you may need a flash light to see it) and mind the fan blade while doing all of this, I'd hate to see yo get hurt looking at this stuff. if you get the marks lined up then you can go back to the distributor. if you pop the clips and lift off the cap which plug wire is the rotor pointing at? if its not number one then you have a jumped chain. hope you can figure it out. by the way you never said if this has points or electronic ignition?
     
  6. skruzich

    skruzich Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    873
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Location:
    Georgia
    If your a getting fuel to the cylendars, the only thing left is timing and compression. IF your compression. compression is affected by timing.
     
  7. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,301
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Location:
    So Cal Mtns
    I DID have a 289 slip a notch on the timing chain,it can happen.FWIW.

    BooBoo
     
  8. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

    Messages:
    7,102
    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Location:
    In beautiful downtown Sticks, near Belleview, Fl.
    This is a hybrid engine, there are two dipsticks. Its a carb set up with electronic ignition.
     
  9. Yeti

    Yeti Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    162
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Location:
    southern Michigan
    sound like you used a new style oil pan on an old style engine? no big deal. I was wondering if you had points because they can have issue which will stop it running without loss of power. electronic ign. works or it don't. have you tried to figure out what is wrong yet?
     
  10. buck_1one

    buck_1one Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    West Virginia
    If you look down the carb and pump the linkage you should see two strong streams of gas being shot down the carb, not a dribble. If you don't have nice strong streams of gas you have a problem in the accelerator pump system. When the engine will not start, try pouring a little gas down the carb and see if it will start. This will bypass the accelerator pump and it should start, if this is the problem. It maybe time for a carb rebuild, or a nice new 4bbl :)

    Buck
     
  11. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    It sounds like you are saying it starts and runs fine sometimes and at others it just wont start.
    If this is so, is it damp or raining when it won't start and clear on the days it does run?
    If the carb is pumping the gas as already been said on here, in streams, and it runs on clear days, I would say it is a craked distributor cap. You may not even be able to find the crack but it will let moisture in and it won't crank.
    Spray some either into it and clean it with a clean rag to get rid of moisture the next time it won't crank. If that works, it is difenintly the cap.
    You can also have someone try to crank it at night and in the dark, you may be able to see little sparks on the cap. That is another sign of a cracked cap.
    Ignition systems put out up to 40 and 50,000 volts and will jump anywhere it can. Like I said, you may never even find the crack.
    And if it cranks sometimes and not others, it isn't the timing chain, but if it just stopped all at one it very well could be the timing chain.
    That is the weakest link in a small block ford.
    I changed several of them in the younger days when I couldn't keep my foot out of the carb., lol
    God Luck
    Dennis
     
  12. agmantoo

    agmantoo agmantoo Supporter

    Messages:
    10,854
    Joined:
    May 22, 2003
    Location:
    Zone 7
    With the timing chain worn the timing will fluctuate during the cranking cycle. This condition will, IMO and experience, cause inconsistent starting.
     
  13. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

    Messages:
    7,102
    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Location:
    In beautiful downtown Sticks, near Belleview, Fl.
    A little slack here guys, it only got 289K on it! My 300 - 6 has 358! The Isuzu is under 200k and will not climb trees...
     
  14. comfortablynumb

    comfortablynumb Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,808
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2003
    Location:
    Dysfunction Junction, SW PA
    if its similar to a 390FE, rebuilding the carb and a tune up might fix it cheap.

    a hairline crack in the cap will make it not start right.

    like was said if it fired up consistantly with a squirt of starter fluid [I would use a squirt of gasoline from an old bell style oil can instead of ether] then your carbs acc. pump is sucking air or the spring/diahram is worn.

    or it could be a glitch in the electic egnition if you replaced it withh a newer style...

    a shorting put plug wire can do it too....
     
  15. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    I grew up on 289 and 302 Ford engines and never had that happen to me. I had them jump a tooth and cut off if I didn't keep it reved way up to keep it running until I got it home and not to be started again until repairs were made, but never one that wouldn't crank because of slack in it.
    They all got to running rough before hand but they would start until they jumped the tooth.
    I would still put my money on the cap or as someone else said, it could be in the ignition switch.
    One more thing. In case you do replace the timing chain and gears, make sure you put the thick washer on the bolt holding the hamonic balancer on. I missed that one, one time as kid and it came off at about 4 or 5,000 rpm's and I didn't find it until the next summer, when I was cutting grass about 200 yards away from the road, LOL.
    Just my 2 coppers
     
  16. moopups

    moopups In Remembrance

    Messages:
    7,102
    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Location:
    In beautiful downtown Sticks, near Belleview, Fl.
    Its looking like the coil at this point, did the same failure today, I put a screwdriver changable insert in to the coil wires end and saw no spark. Yet 10 minutes later it did fire. Are coils come and go things? I know if one fails they are too hot to touch.
     
  17. dennisjp

    dennisjp dennisjp

    Messages:
    334
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    Virginia
    Yes the coil will do it if it is too hot, but they usually will cause the engine to stall also. I guess what you are saying now is it doesn't start after you have went somewhere and cut it off and come back out to leave shortly after.
    That very well may be the coil.
    Good luck and Gos Bless
    Sennis