2000 Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Shop Talk' started by trish4prez, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    The car has 127K miles and the Check Engine light is on again for the third time since Dec 05. The first time I was told the thermostat needed to be replaced because the engine wasn't getting hot enough. Cost -$500. The second time was in May 06, and the O2 sensor was bad. I took it to a tech school's auto shop and had diagnostics run and was told there were two O2 sensors on the car adn that I should have both replaced because the 2nd one would show up once the first one was replaced. The auto shop teacher recommended the same place I had gone the first time. The shop told me there was only one O2 sensor in my car and that the water pump should be replaced. Cost -$500. At the end of July the light came on again. Not having another $500, I have been driving the car back and forth to the bus stop and close errands, but I have to have emission testing done before the middle of Nov in order to renew my license plate. I'm hoping to get the school to run diagnostics again before I take it to the shop. If I really do have 2 O2 sensors and the diagnostics show it is now the 2nd one, I'm really going to be upset at paying another $500! I've asked several people and about half tell me I have two and the other half say there is only one. Anywhere I can find out for sure? I wouldn't know what to look for under the hood. I can check the oil and radiator, but not much beyond that. :) Any help is appreciated!
     
  2. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    Go to autozone and borrow their code reader.If you cant plug it in ask for help.
    They can then look up the code for you,may or may not have it.VW codes are mostly unreadable at autozone,hopefully your code will be a common one.

    BooBoo
     

  3. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    I had no idea AutoZone had a code reader. I'll check it out tomorrow! Thanks so much!!!
     
  4. PlainFolk

    PlainFolk Member

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    What size engine do you have and what is the 8th digit in the VIN #
     
  5. clovis

    clovis Well-Known Member

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    I am not a mechanic, but $500 for an O2 sensor? $500 for a thermostat? Did they throw in a new set of tires each time?
    Seems awful steep if you ask me.
    clove
     
  6. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    I live just south of Atlanta. The labor on each was close to $350 and the parts were the rest. I was told I got off light, but I didn't feel that way!
     
  7. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    I think the engine is 1.8?? I'll find out and post today. Too dark outside right now to see. The 8th digit is J.
     
  8. PlainFolk

    PlainFolk Member

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    Trish, you have a 3.1 litre engine. If you are getting an O2S code it would generally mean that the difference between the front oxygen sensor and the rear oxygen sensor don't match appropriately. You have a sensor on each side of the catalytic converter in the exhaust. Alot of times these codes could mean anything as simple as changing spark plugs to your catalytic converter being stopped up. If you could get me the exact code, I could look it up and try to get you pointed in the right direction.

    BTW, I don't believe either the water pump or the thermostat could have set an oxygen sensor code.

    My advice is to go to Autozone, and they will pull the codes out for free and let you know what they are.
     
  9. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I'm going to try to get there today to see what the codes are. I wanted the shop to replace both O2 sensors when they did the first one in May, but they told me I only had one. If that is what the code is for, I'm going to be upset! :)
     
  10. cfabe

    cfabe Well-Known Member

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    You do have two oxygen sensors. It's not generally necessary to replace both at the same time, but at 120k they are at the end of their life. I don't understand how one shop could tell you you need an o2 sensor and the other a water pump, they're not at all related. And yes $500 for a thermostat or an o2 sensor seems very steep to me.
     
  11. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    It was the same shop. They just recommended I do the water pump since the labor wouldn't be much more than just replacing the O2. I'm just upset that they didn't go ahead and do both sensors like I wanted. I'm pretty sure that will be what the code will show.
     
  12. Red Devil TN

    Red Devil TN Well-Known Member

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    Shame you weren't near me, I'd pull and clear the code for you as well as datalog the motor while running. Free. O2 should not have been anywhere near $500. The waterpump though I could see. Thermo... probably not. I wouldn't go to that shop again.

    Additionally, the second O2 generally has only one job, verify the cat is doing it's job. That is it. The first helps the ecm/pcm control the fuel mixture.
     
  13. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, RD, that would have been nice! :) I"m hoping to get the codes read at AutoZone today.
     
  14. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    Had the codes run at AutoZone. The first one is the same as the one I got in May. I was told that this is the O2 sensor that was replaced. The second code is the same one as last Dec. Not sure what they replaced then.

    The papers I got when checking the codes tell me the following:

    Number crossed P0131
    Troubleshoot OBDII (Alpha) P Code
    Troubleshooting P0131

    The PCM has determined that the input voltage from O2 sensor 1 in bank 1 is too low for current operating conditions. O2Sensor 1 is closest to the cylinder head before the catalytic converter, while O2 sensors 2 & 3 are located further downstream nad are typically mounted in or after the catalytic converter)

    Number crossed P1404
    Troubleshoot OBDII (Alpha) P Code
    Troubleshooting P1404

    IAT - B circuit malfunction / EGR temperature sensor circuit
     
  15. PlainFolk

    PlainFolk Member

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    After checking the codes against the manual troubleshooting steps, the only conclusion I can come up with (without actually running the pinpoint tests and ruling out the wiring) is a bad EGR valve. This would be a guess. One way to check it would be to get a small vacuum pump and see if the valve moves when applying vacuum and whether it holds vacuum.

    Sorry I couldn't be any more help.
     
  16. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    Thanks so much. The car is going to the shop either later this week or next. I have to get it fixed so I can pass emissions testing in November. Hopefully, the light won't come on again for a while. :( Maybe I'll just live with the light until next year this time if it does! :)
     
  17. carly

    carly on winged flight...

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    For at least five years my old Ford Bronco's (I had it 12 years and loved it) check engine light came on. I had it checked in the beginning by my mechanic who was also a very good friend, and he said the thing was just coming on, no problem with the car. Believe me, he checked the engine :hobbyhors

    I drove it five years or maybe more till I sold it :Bawling: for a new vechile.
    Nothing ever happened. Iput a strip of black electrical tape over the message on the dash....
    All fixed!! :)
     
  18. mightybooboo

    mightybooboo Well-Known Member

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    Mechanics,in light of this,should she have GM look at her car?
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I just found this from a good bud on N-body.net

    Intermittent Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) and PCM DTC P1404 (Recalibrate PCM) #01-06-04-018A - (09/23/2002)

    2001 Buick Century

    2001 Chevrolet Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Venture

    2001 Oldsmobile Alero, Silhouette

    2001 Pontiac Aztek, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Montana

    with 3.1 L or 3.4 L Engine (VINs J, E -- RPOs LG8, LA1)

    This bulletin is being revised to update the calibration information to the latest available. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-06-04-018 (Section 06-Engine).

    Condition
    Some customers may comment on the MIL illuminating intermittently with no other driveability concerns noted. Upon investigation, the technician may find a stored PCM Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P1404.

    Cause
    The EGR valve pintle position voltage may not correlate to anticipated PCM calibration values.

    Correction

    Important
    Verify that the TECH2® has been updated with software version 21.000 (Released January 23, 2001), or greater before attempting the procedures in this bulletin.


    Prior to recalibrating the PCM, verify the following diagnostic values with a Tech2® using the following steps:
    In the Powertrain engine data menu, select F2 EGR Data. Press enter.
    With key ON, engine OFF, view the EGR Position Sensor Percentage (%).
    If the actual position is greater than 3.8 percent, and no other EGR codes or symptoms are present, then proceed to Step 4. Otherwise, proceed to Step 3.
    If the actual EGR pintle percentage observed in Step 1.2 is less than 3.8 percent, or if other EGR codes or symptoms are present, then proceed with the published diagnostics found in SI. When the appropriate repairs are completed, proceed to Step 4.
    PCM calibrations to correct this issue have been released for service. Reprogram the PCM using TIS 2000 version 1 for 2002, or later.
    The calibrations listed are electronic calibrations and are NOT available from GMSPO. Calibrations will be available from Techline® starting January 2002, on the TIS 2000 version TIS 01/2002 data update or later.

    Warranty Information
    For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

    Labor Operation: J6355
    Description: Module, Controller -- Reprogram
    Labor Time: Use Published Labor Time


    GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
    WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
     
  19. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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    If I could, I would just keep driving it, but I have to pass emissions in order to renew my license plate in early November. If it happens again after I get it renewed, I will drive it until this time next year. :)
     
  20. trish4prez

    trish4prez Well-Known Member

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