2 Sick Kids... Please advise asap!

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Smoky Rain, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. Smoky Rain

    Smoky Rain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Have two sick kids that were hollering about 20 minutes ago. Both are approx. 4 months old. - Fr. Alpine/Nubian mix.
    Ran down to the barn. Vomit all over the walls. Both kids are cudding. Foaming mouths. No scours. Temp normal = 103.

    I cleaned them both up. Cleaned the walls of the barn. Both seem fair right now. Only one was hollering whenever her stomach heaved. The hollering has stopped. But I'm still worried.

    The mother is fine. Just clucking and worrying over them.

    I think they ate Rhododendron leaves.

    My question:
    Ok to give them strong cold tea for the tannic acid to neutralize any alkaloids they may have in their systems?
    And what can I use to soothe their stomachs?

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

    Smoky Rain (Western NC)
     
  2. Mr. Dot

    Mr. Dot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    415
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2002
    Location:
    Rocky Topo
    Howdy Smokey Rain
    This from goatworld.com:

    These recipes work for plant toxins and are good first aid for other toxins while you wait for the vet. - Irene.
    Irene's Recipe for Rhododendron Poisoning.

    Ingredients:
    15 mls Renco (rennet)
    15 mls Mylanta (milk of magnesia)
    5 mls brandy
    Mix all together
    This is the adult dose!
    For kids under 4 months give 5 mls each of Renco and Mylanta and 2 mls brandy, for kids over 4 months give 10 mls of both Renco and Mylanta and 5 mls brandy. Treat goatlings as adults.
    Renco is the tradename for junket rennet and you can buy it in any supermarket. It is good for a variety of gastric ailments in goats, and it works even when it is well past its UseBy date, so don't chuck it out just because you can't use it for junket or cheese any more. The action of the rennet is to neutralise the toxins from the rhododendron. Mylanta is the trade name for milk of magnesia. Sometimes you'll find it in a supermarket but more often you have to go to a chemist. Again, it is useful for a number of stomach upsets in goats (as well as humans).

    Its action is twofold: it puts a lining on the gut, and it regulates the pulsing of the gut (peristalsis), which often gets out of kilter with poisoning or colic.

    The brandy works, but I haven't yet found out why. It is a fortified spirit so has a high alcohol percentage and you don't need much. Alternatively you can use sherry, which is a fortified wine. They are both made from grapes, and work better for medicinal purposes than spirits or wines made from grain or other substances. I got 100 mls of bulk brandy from my local Liquorland. The staff were highly amused when I told them what it was for, although I admit I have nicked the odd tablespoonful for making fruit mince.

    It is usual for goats with rhododendron poisoning to vomit rather spectacularly, everything within a 5 metre radius is likely to be covered in green slime. For this reason it is difficult to drench them with an antidote because it is easy for things to go down the wrong hole and either drown the goat within minutes or cause inhalation pneumonia which isn't treatable in the farm situation. That is why I like this recipe because the amounts are small, and you can take 15 minutes over the drenching, a ml or two at a time between sickies, if you have to. One dose is usually sufficient. I've never heard of anyone having to give two although if the goat did not show improvement within an hour after dosing, one could consider a repeat.

    It is important to keep the goat warm, but not in the sun, and out of the wind. Have a bucket of fresh warm water available for the animal to drink, and each time it gets fouled by vomit (which has stuck to the face hair) empty and refill it, otherwise the goat will just be drinking up more poison. A goat which is vomiting all over the place is getting rid of the toxins much more efficiently than one which is not, so vomiting is good.

    Once the goat is feeling better, offer a mixture of yummies, a handful of various weeds like yarrow, cleavers, dock, prairie grass or twitch, some green pine needles, tree lucerne (tagasaste), willow, and some good plain hay or straw. Don't give much at a time as anything which is fouled will have to be thrown away, so why waste it by being over-generous?

    Some other evergreens such as camellias will give similar symptoms to rhododendron, though not usually so severe, and the goat may not vomit. The recipe will work pretty well on most forms of poisoning, including toadstool spores. It also does a good job as a first-aid measure in organo-phosphate poisoning until you can bring goat and vet together. I suggest sticking both Lorraine's and my recipes on the wall beside your telephone so you always know where they are, and you have immediate access if someone else phones you in a panic.

    Lorraine's Recipe for Rhododendron Poisoning

    Quantities do not need to be too exact.

    Ingredients:
    ¼ cup cooking oil
    ½ cup strong/strong cold tea (6 to 8 tea bags removed) ["English" tea]
    1 teaspoon ground ginger
    1 teaspoon baking soda
    MIX ALL TOGETHER and drench the goat with it all.

    How does this work?
    Oil puts a lining on the stomach preventing more poison going into the system, tea is the antidote, and ginger relieves pain, baking soda helps bring up the gas.


    We welcome your comments or own recipes for poisonous plant antidotes. Please write us at:
    gary@goatworld.com
    Your help and information could help to save a goats life! ​

    You can also try Goat911 which is linked at the top of this forum. I've had good experiences with them. I hope kids are ok.
     

  3. Jen H

    Jen H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,832
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Location:
    Washington
    Looks like both of those recipes would work - tea obviously has the tannin in it, so does brandy and sherry (tannins are in the grape skins).

    Right now, I would concentrate on just getting the tea down them and giving it time to work. I'd also cut their diet back to just plain old grass hay for a couple days to let their gut heal up.

    My goats have gotten into rhododendrons before, and they came through it with no lasting effects.
     
  4. Smoky Rain

    Smoky Rain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Thank you both for your replies.
    Made some strong tea and used a turkey baster to drench them. And, as Mr. Dot mentioned, it wasn't easy. Had to time it just right so they wouldn't aspirate...

    I'm happy to say that both kids survived the night. They are somewhat lethargic this morning, but I guess that is to be expected.

    I will keep those recipes on hand for future emergencies...

    I'm positive now it was Rhododendron poisoning... Yesterday I pruned and trimmed trees, shrubs, etc. and had my teenagers throw all the trimmings in the pasture. A bad mistake on my part - I should have known better. The Rhododendron was still laying there this morning with some bites out of the leaves....

    Thank goodness the others had the sense to leave it alone...

    Again, thank you both for your replies and suggestions.
     
  5. debitaber

    debitaber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,061
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    keep us up dated please. I would get water into these two. probably some gator aid, or something, and some baking soda, or probious, or yogurt. and make sure that they get enough water. don't want them to dry out. and some vitamin b complex, and nutri drench, that can be got at any farm store.