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12-year-old boy shot by Cleveland police has died

By Cory Shaffer | Northeast Ohio Media Group

on November 23, 2014


-VIDEO-



CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The 12-year-old boy wielding what turned out to be a BB gun when he was shot by police outside a Cleveland recreation center died early Sunday morning, a police union official confirmed.
The boy, whose name has not been officially released, was shot in the stomach at Cudell Recreation Center, at Detroit Avenue and West Boulevard, about 3:30 p.m. Saturday, police said.
He was taken to MetroHealth Medical Center in serious condition, EMS officials said. Throughout the night his condition deteriorated and he died early Sunday, Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association president Jeff Follmer said.
The shooting came after a man at the park adjacent to the rec center called police when he saw "a guy with a gun pointing it at people."
The caller twice said the gun was "probably fake" and told dispatchers the person pulling the gun from his waistband was "probably a juvenile," according to audio released by police officials late Saturday
more...
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/12-year-old_boy_shot_by_clevel.html

Cleveland police shot and wounded a 12-year-old boy who was allegedly carrying an "airsoft" toy gun at a recreation center, police said. The 12-year-old was shot in the torso and was in surgery Saturday, police said in a statement, and two officers were placed on administrative leave.

Police said the officers were called to a report of a person waving a gun around at a playground at the Cudell Recreation Center at around 3:30 p.m. Saturday, and one or both of the officers shot the boy after he refused to put his hands up and reached in his waistband for appeared to be a handgun.

The handgun turned out to be an "airsoft" replica toy gun, which shoots pellets similar to a BB gun. Cleveland police said in a statement that an orange marking designed to make the toys distinguishable from real firearms had been removed. Police said the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor’s Office and police are investigating the shooting.

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cops-shoot-boy-12-carrying-airsoft-toy-cleveland-n254251
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I feel so sorry for everyone involved here! I think my grandson has one of these.
 

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Another "unfortunate accident" where someone died from a bad decision by a cop. I'll bet money that the cop is given a "paid suspension" while the shooting is investigated by his department and he will be found innocent of any negligence and returned to duty. Our military, fighting in a war zone, has stricter rules of engagement than the police seem to have. With the cops it's shoot first and sort out the details later whether it be human or animal.

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Another "unfortunate accident" where someone died from a bad decision by a cop.

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Normally I would agree but not this time. Don't get me wrong. This is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out not only to the boys family but also the police officer. An airsft gun is EXTREMELY realistic looking and normally has orange markings on it to distinguish it from a real firearm. If these were removed you would actually have to handle it to tell it was not real. I don't think the officer woke up and said "Im going to go kill a boy today". He was responding to a situation that the boy set in motion. He wanted people to think he had a real gun. It worked.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Family of boy shot by Cleveland police will conduct own investigation

by Cory Shaffer
updated November 23, 2014


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The attorney representing the family of the 12-year-old boy fatally shot by Cleveland police will launch his own investigation into what happened in the seconds before a rookie officer fired two shots at the BB gun-wielding child.
The family of the boy, whose name has not been released, hired Timothy Kucharski, of the law firm Richardson and Kucharski, as police investigate their son's Saturday death underneath a gazebo outside Cudell Recreation Center.
The man who called police about 3:30 p.m. Saturday told dispatchers that the gun was "probably fake," but a person was pointing it at people and scaring them. Police said two officers -- one in his first year on the force, another with at least 10 years of experience -- were not told the gun may be fake. Instead, they were responding to a report of "a male with a gun threatening people" in Cudell Commons.
When officers ordered the boy to raise his hands, he raised his shirt and reached for what the officers thought was a gun in his waistband, police said. The boy removed the gun from his waistband, and the officer opened fire, according to police.
more..
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/inde...oy_shot_by_clevelan.html#incart_story_package


I can see it happening and how is a cop going to know if it is real or not?
 

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In Iraq, our military, under the rules of engagement, CANNOT fire on a suspect even though that person may be holding a weapon and more than likely an enemy combatant, until that person fires at them. Seems to me that our LEO would show a little more restraint before firing at someone being as we're not in a war zone.

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In Iraq, our military, under the rules of engagement, CANNOT fire on a suspect even though that person may be holding a weapon and more than likely an enemy combatant, until that person fires at them. Seems to me that our LEO would show a little more restraint before firing at someone being as we're not in a war zone.

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Unfortunately this is not Iraq. The rules of engagement there are to the detriment of our service personal and have resulted in the massive increase in casualties.

If the boy did have a real gun and had started randomly shooting at other people at the rec center would you blame the police for not taking action sooner?
We can armchair quarterback this to death. We have the time to do so. The officer did not.
 

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Another "unfortunate accident" where someone died from a bad decision by a cop. I'll bet money that the cop is given a "paid suspension" while the shooting is investigated by his department and he will be found innocent of any negligence and returned to duty. Our military, fighting in a war zone, has stricter rules of engagement than the police seem to have. With the cops it's shoot first and sort out the details later whether it be human or animal.

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What would you like them to do with him? A cop shooting a suspect is not at crime, at least at this point.

Just curious.
 

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In Iraq, our military, under the rules of engagement,
CANNOT fire on a suspect even though that person may be holding a weapon
and more than likely an enemy combatant, until that person fires at them.
Seems to me that our LEO would show a little more restraint before firing
at someone being as we're not in a war zone. .
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Many areas of the larger inner urban cities look worse than Beirut ever did.....
I'd say more . . . but the 'rules of engagement' here are worse than Iraq.:facepalm:
 

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Sorry, but by 12 years old I was taught not to point a gun even a toy one at someone. He was playing gangsta no doubt. Around here a pizza delivery person got held up, beaten and as he was lying on the ground the kid pulled out a gun, and joked about shooting the pizza guy, the pizza guy at this drew his concealed carry and shot the kid. Kid had a bb gun, The man was cleared, and the school kids bemoaned the death of this punk. In my book he got what he had coming, and this 12 year old in a few years probably would think nothing of shooting someone with a real gun. He was just practicing after all play is the fore-runner to actions in adulthood. Sad that these people are not taught better, but what was the scripture.. "my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."
 

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Here's a picture of the actual gun the kid had... It doesn't get much more realistic than this, down to the magazine and the accessory rail.

The kid pulled it out of his waist band. It only takes a split second to go from a waist band to being pointed at you..

I would have shot him too.. A gun that real looking, you don't have much time to decide if you're about to be shot or not.. .Kill or be killed..

 

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Another "unfortunate accident" where someone died from a bad decision by a cop. I'll bet money that the cop is given a "paid suspension" while the shooting is investigated by his department and he will be found innocent of any negligence and returned to duty. Our military, fighting in a war zone, has stricter rules of engagement than the police seem to have. With the cops it's shoot first and sort out the details later whether it be human or animal.

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You are kidding, right? Somebody pulls a gun out of a waist band and gets shot, and you blame a cop? Yeah, maybe you're right, cops just sit around all day waiting for their chance to shoot 12 yo kids. Sound thinking went into that one.
 

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We are not the military. People should know that you don't waive a gun around. I don't care if the caller believes that it is fake. I have to respond as if is real. My responsibility is to the public, not the caller or the suspect. If the gun is waived in my direction,or that of another, I will take the shot. If you are present and would want me to let them fire first, I pray that you are not the victim.

A officer must make the decision that they are willing to take a shot if need be, when the begin their career. I made that decision, and was blessed that I never had to pull the trigger. A few of them I trained did, and they went home to their family.

We did a presentation at a church with a number of fake guns. One of the guns was mine and was real. We had the congregation look the guns over ( no touch ). Wet old them there was at least one that was real. Out of about 50 people,everyone missed throne real guy in the display. They were just placed on a table to view. There was not stress to experience. No perceived lives at risk. Add this stress to a call and the. You are the right decision.

This was not a negligent discharge. This was the shooting of someone with a gun, likely trying to make the "big man"impression.
There are consequences.
 

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In Iraq, our military, under the rules of engagement, CANNOT fire on a suspect even though that person may be holding a weapon and more than likely an enemy combatant, until that person fires at them. Seems to me that our LEO would show a little more restraint before firing at someone being as we're not in a war zone.

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yeah, wait until the kid shoots, just to be on the PC side of things. I don't know what I find more silly, that sentiment or the fact that two others actually 'liked' the comment.
 

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Nobody was clearly in the right or wrong, just a tragic set of circumstances if you ask me. IF the parents would have taken the toy gun away when the marker was removed, IF the other patron would not have called 911, IF the policeman would have waited a second longer to decide to fire, there are just 100 ways the outcome could have been different.

Kinda ironic, we were looking at a Christmas gift catalog just the other day, my dad pointed out a life size pistol made out of solid chocolate and commented, "Some kid will get themselves killed with that". At the time I kind of rolled my eyes, as dear old dad has some liberal moments, but turns out he wasn't wrong.
 

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This kind of thing is why I don't like toy guns. I fully support gun rights, just don't like toy ones. My kids were never allowed to have them. They were taught that guns are NOT toys and how to handle real ones.

This incident is a terrible tragedy for all involved. It sounds like the kid may have wanted to get killed. Sad all around. Wouldn't be surprised to hear about that cop developing a bad drinking problem after this, or even killing himself. It happens.
 

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Nobody was clearly in the right or wrong, just a tragic set of circumstances if you ask me. IF the parents would have taken the toy gun away when the marker was removed, IF the other patron would not have called 911, IF the policeman would have waited a second longer to decide to fire, there are just 100 ways the outcome could have been different.

Kinda ironic, we were looking at a Christmas gift catalog just the other day, my dad pointed out a life size pistol made out of solid chocolate and commented, "Some kid will get themselves killed with that". At the time I kind of rolled my eyes, as dear old dad has some liberal moments, but turns out he wasn't wrong.
Nobody clearly in the right or wrong? Pardon me while I scratch my head and try to follow that logic. Kid waiving a gun around, kid told to put hands up in air, kid pulls gun out of waist instead and gets shot.

Cop tells kid to put hands up in air, kid pulls gun, cop kills kid.

Sad? Absolutely. Inability to distinguish between the right behavior an the wrong behavior----Sad and disappointing.

I'll go on record to say if you pull a gun on me, and I can get to mine first, I will shoot you, and being a decent shot I will probably kill you. I will not be waiting to see if it is lead, bb, rubber dart or a stream of water heading in my direction. I will be double tapping two to the center of your chest and praying that I live to go home that day.

As the saying goes "It's hard, but it's fair" Until then I will continue to pray that I never find myself in that position as I would have to carry that burden till the day I meet my maker, and then I'd have to face his justice.
 

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In Iraq, our military, under the rules of engagement, CANNOT fire on a suspect even though that person may be holding a weapon and more than likely an enemy combatant, until that person fires at them. Seems to me that our LEO would show a little more restraint before firing at someone being as we're not in a war zone.

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And as a vet of Afghanistan and Iraq, I've seen a few good men killed by that BS policy. Fornicate that and ANYONE who thinks its a good policy.
 

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Don't be so quick to put the blame on the officer. Yes it is a VERY tragic incident and one we seem to hear about on a weekly basis but you have to put yourself in the officers position. These officers were responding to multiple reports of a subject with a gun and then show up on scene where they see a subject with a gun. They order the boy who is old enough to know better and listen to put their hands up and the kids first reaction is to draw the gun. You can't expect the officer to wait to be shot to see if it was a real or fake gun. These days sadly a small child is just as much of a threat as an adult. Today's toys guns look just like the real ones and kids commonly take off the required "orange" tip that is suppose to identify it as a toy. This is something the officer will have to live with forever but when faced with a "potential" life threatening situation you are trained to act with deadly force. Could have been easily prevented if the child old enough to know better would have just listened.
 

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the dispatchers were told it might be a fake gun but as I understand it the police weren't told. they thought they were facing a real gun. there have been a couple instances here in the past week. happen nobody was killed. very easily could have been though. jmo. ~Georgia.
 
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