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If at first you don't succeed.........

6K views 66 replies 5 participants last post by  RonTgottagoat 
#1 ·
try, try again? Well I took a year off from getting bees last year. Two years before I bought my first hive but lost it and a couple more. Needless to say I was pretty dejected, disgusted even. Not with the bees but of my lack of success in keeping them. But I got the urge to try again. I have spent my spare time trying to learn as much as possible and feel that I am now a little better prepped to be a beekeeper I ordered two NUCS from a guy in north Florida who delivered them a week ago. I think I have learned where I went wrong the last time, after having had shb problems in my first hive I placed my next hives in a full sun spot, and think they might have absconded due to getting far too hot where they were Positioned
This time I have made a nice apiary area under a large pecan tree in my backyard. As I mentioned earlier I ordered and received two nucs last week and hives them in two 10 frame set ups adjacent one another with doors facing different directions. I also purchased a nurse bee nuc that he said should raise a queen from the frames that it has. So if that one is successful in raising a queen that would be three hives. I am intrigued by the possibility of raising new queens in this way, if it works. The guy said the best thing to do is leave them alone for about a month. I was thinking I would leave that nuc alone for 5 more weeks. Thinking that in total that nurse bee nuc would be here for six weeks and that would be enough time to raise/get queen mated and begin to lay. Would I see capped brood after this time? I have trouble seeing eggs in any frames, my eyesight is not the best and my reading glasses are difficult to work with in my vail s my regular vision is fine and my readers make that blurry, lol. Anyway I am excited to have some bees, I am learning I think also I forgot to mention these bees were raised foundationless and plan to continue on with this more natural method Wish me luck and hopefully I will have much to post in the future.
 
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#28 ·
All worker brood as in eggs having been laid by a queen, so they will hatch as workers.

Looks like you have a tiny bit of normal brood capped but the biggest share is capped with the shape of a bullet.

I would not even attempt to put a queen in there at this point. The workers have made a queen out of them selves and may kill a real queen.


So you don't loose the nuc remove it from where it is, about 50 yards away if you can.

Place a queen rite colony in the place of the nuc, the stronger the queen rite colony is the better.

Go shake every bee from the nuc use a bee brush to get them off the comb if you need to. Make sure you use rubber bands on you pant legs.

A bunch will fly back to the queen right colony, get excepted. Some will remain in the grass for a bit possiably but will go to the queen rite colony by dark.

Now the nuc is empty, no bees no laying worker. Now you can pull frames from your second colony enough to fill your nuc. Take mostly brood from capped to just eggs with a few empty cells and I always do one frame of honey.
Install your new queen and your good to go.


:D Al
 
#29 ·
Ok Al I think I'm getting this right. Basically I take the queenless nuc away from where they are and shake them but I need to move my bigger hive to the spot of the nuc? Wouldn't that mess up the beees from the better hive by moving it 3 feet To the spot of the nuc?

For the queen that I already ordered to fix the laying worker nuc
Then pull how many frames of brood etc? 2? And then honey? And new queen that's ordered? What to do with that comb etc in the queenless nuc? Replace the frames I take from the stronger hive? I just don't want to mess up my queenrite hives trying to fix this other situation that was a gamble from the start--------I would like to get this sask queen off to a good start I'd hate to waste her at this point. Even if I just made her a small hive that she could build. I know I have a million questions and not sure if I'm asking the right ones nut thanks for your help, if nothing else I'm learning from this and at least there are 2 new hives that do seem on track
 
#30 ·
The idea taught to me many years ago by a old country gent with over 40 years of keeping bees is for the laying worker bees to go to a strong queen rite hive and be put in their place. It does work believe me.

The bees from the queen rite hive out forageing will return to their former hive spot and join the new bees you have put in the nuc and placed where the strong hive had been bringing The numbers in it up from what you had put in there.

Trying to deal with laying worker hives has cost me money when I was buying queens and they kept being killed by laying workers.

So glad when Billy taught me how to deal with them.

Benton 3 hole cage.



JZBZ cage.



One of my queens. About 10 years of breeding to get to her.




:D Al
 
#31 ·
Thanks Al I will do that on Friday when I get back home. To recap make up a small nuc put to side, take away queenless nuc shake and add frames back into the strong hive replacing the ones taken. Then move good hive to weak ones spot. Put new nuc t the strong box spot requeen in cage and foragers will swell new nuc? I think I got it. Thanks again
 
#32 ·
I like Al's method. If I have laying worker I divided frames among several several boxes. The comb is valuable and it is being wasted in queen less hive. The way I understand it is adding brood and eggs as soon as you see a hive queen less helps build numbers and helps keeping a hive from getting laying worker. You have to get hives up to speed now. I might add 1 frame a week until they do not need it. When the flow ends or slows the queen will stop laying or the bees will pull brood or use as protein bank. Then it is to late to build numbers. Once you build up your apiary you will have plenty of frames to move things around, building up weak hives and making new ones. With out your help a weak hive takes forever to build numbers. There is not enough bees to take care of brood and forage so it stays small till winter and dies. One strong hive is better than 3 weak hives. Your time would be well spent learning how to catch spring swarms. Easy way to expand at the right time of year.
 
#33 ·
When fall comes you can pick the colony of the three that seems to have the best queen as a base. Kill the queens in the other two and use a sheet of news papper and combine them into opne strong colony.

Screw that learning to catch swarms from your colony. Instead learn how to do splits and make up nucs to increase your colonies, before they swarm.

Let agencys call you to go get swarms that are not from your colonies. Isn't very hard to shake therm from a tree limb of vacum them off into a hive. Even. my 12 year old grand daughter knows how.


:D Al
 
#34 · (Edited)
I have only raised bees in south Louisiana so not sure about other areas. With swarms boxes I catch around 20 a year. I stop trying when all my boxes are full or around now. June 1st. If I was younger I could double that. I know several bee keepers that do about the same. People that do not know what they are doing or put little effort in catch one or two. Hanging swarms from trees or raised houses I caught 1. For those you have to be Johny on the spot or have people call you. Of course swarm prevention is a must. Al You went to the trouble of changing the font on your previous post Were you yelling at me?
 
#36 ·
So I made it back and my new queen got here perfect timing I opened up the hives ndtook 2 frames of capped brood no two of honey and shook a few bees into one of those nucs I built. Set it up in the apiary opened up the other hives. When I was finished I installed the new queen in my first split! I took the queenless nuc away and shook the bees off of the remaining frames which seemed to only have dronebrood un hatched. I went inside and came out and was looking at the remaining comb. I noticed there was a few bees starting to hatch out. I watched one pop out and then I noticed it a queen cell in middle of the frame! I had missed it, I'm an idiot. I returned the frames to their nuc boxes. I hadn't moved the strong hive into place yet. All the bees were balled up on the face of the cinder block. I returned the box and the bees went back in. Hindsight is 20/20 unfortunately my vision was not. I put a feeder on that nuc and may give them a frame of brood from my other hive tomorrow.
 
#42 ·
Is this the hive with new queen? If yes I would give a frame if brood if donor hive is strong enough. The new hive needs enough nurse bees to get jump start. Do not take brood if the other hive is not strong. Bait your empty boxes and cross your fingers that a wild hive moves in.
 
#39 ·
You want to make queens when the bees want to. If you're flow is ending like mine I would probably combine weak hive with another hive.If you had several strong hives to get a frame now and then it would be different. You do not have enough bees to move things around that much. A queen with a few bees will not grow fast enough and die this winter. Build up what you have the best you can and cross fingers it is good enough.Thr time to build is when the flow starts. Your flow might be ending soon with the heat.
 
#40 ·
Ok ed how do I identify the flow and when it starts peaks and ends? I am in Bush and I believe your in lacombe which is pretty close. I was watching the hives today and the two bigger hives had a lot of traffic and pollen on legs. How much does planting a garden help extend the flow? I have been trying to plant for bees, watermelon and the squashes cucumbers all buzz early in the day. I also planted a bunch of sunflowers, mints and basil. I think most of those are bee plants. I realize that I may not be able to plant enough to keep flow going but wouldn't melons and pumpkins latter in the year benefit the bees?
 
#41 ·
I have hives near you in talisheek. They are doing well. To grow for the bees you need a large area. A garden is to small. You could try growing bee bee trees I think they flower late. Would take years to get big but you do not need a lot of land. My hives near you are at hobby farm with fields not being used so might plant for the bees. The owner has the farm equipment to do this but he is very old so we will see. There is little you can do to extend the flow except move hives to different area. You can spring plant to make flow better but with our summer heat the flow stops and fall flow is when it cools down and the weeds flower. I leave the fall honey for the bees You are in good area so you should get good honey yield. When flow ends the brood chamber shrinks and hives get smaller. This is when you want to treat for mites. Also monitor for hive beetles and remove empty comb not being used to protect from insect damage.
 
#43 ·
Ron you could plant Red tip photenia. Fast growing bush that flowers early and the bees love it. Makes great privacy fence. Ours were 25ft tall before a fungus killed them. Also I use lacy phacella, sweet white clover. Sometimes they go for muster flowers. Mustard grows and Bolt fast in the heat so you can get a lot of flowers and bulk seeds like about a pound or so is cheap. pak choi also grows and bolts fast and bees will use if you have big enough area of it. You can harvest the seed for later use. Plant when rain is in forecast and replant regularly .
Hard to find things that flower in July and August here.
 
#44 ·
Ed if you are working your hives and wouldn't mind a tag along I'd like to help you sometime I think it be great to learn. I saw that on the mustard flowers the wild bees were all over those and the turnips. I let them go to flower cause my bees were on order. By the time they got here it had mostly faded I was reading that cowpeas are good because of the protein so I was gonna plant a bunch of those in some spots that I had early spring stuff in also some okra nad cantaloupes Both I think are pollinated by honey bees. I have been planting trees, pears blueberry bushes I plan to plant some southern apples too.
 
#47 ·
One deep frame of old dark comb on one side the remaing frames with a 1 or 2 inch starter strip so box is mostly open and roomy. If box is to small or cramped it does not work as well. Old used boxes work better then new boxes. Use what you have. If new box you could melt some old comb or wax as scent. I put lemon grass oil on q tip an put in a straw cut to size. This keeps it from evaporating to fast. Sometimes I use swarm lure which is old queen bees crush in alcohol. I have a little better luck hanging in tree 8 feet or so but it cannot swing in wind or be way out of level. No honey or pollen this attracts ants and roaches. Do the best you can and use what you have. I have baited boxes in my truck and sometime bees are very interested so I try to put box in nearest tree. Put as many out as you can at friends houses or where ever. No screen bottom boards or cover it so dark inside. Scout bees find it and few bees will hang out before swarm shows up. It is a sight to see if you are lucky enough to see them moving in. Give them a few days before you retrieve your catch. Staple screen over entrance when they are all there. At dark or day break and bring home and remove screen at entrance. Give a few days and you can transfer to better box with screen bottom board opening up that box to reset. If you have a frame of brood and a frame of comb you can give it for jump start. If I find really good area I put 2 there. At peak season it takes 1 to 10 days to catch. If no bees in 2 weeks or so move box to new location
 
#50 ·
Ed that be really cool to check up your setup! I think I had a bit of good news today in that new split I made and added the Saz queen too, the bees let her out of the cage I didn't spend time looking for her but it did look like the brood frames I added when I made the split hatched out and there were a lot of bees in that new nuc. I will look again Tuesday when I'm off and look for her and eggs. Fingers crossed all is well.

Tuesday I gave a frame to the queenless hive from my other big hive. I also put a new frame with a starter strip in the center of the brood nest of the strong hive so hopefully they will draw it some and the queen will lay some eggs to give to that nuc we will see. I know if it was drawn 3 days in the good hive it should be laid but with an un drawn frame wouldn't Sunday or Monday be better to move it to the queenless hive? I thought I read that somewhere, what ya think?
 
#52 ·
Ron you will learn a lot doing that but it will take forever to get hatched brood that way. 16 days for new queen to hatch. Depending on weather about 2 weeks to mate and start laying eggs and 21 days for those eggs to emerge. That is almost 2 months. I will give you some queen cells or a queen or a nuc and you can get that box up to speed fast. I will be in talisheek Saturday or Sunday morning. If you come by I will set you up.
 
#55 ·
Thanks again ed thT combine went well with lemongrass sugar spray. I opened that otherhive that got the sad queen I saw here alive and well she was marked so that helped me find her. I carefully returned her to the box filled all my feeders. All the hives have good activity this afternoo
 
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