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Made my choice...A Bulgarian Karakachan

96K views 750 replies 61 participants last post by  motdaugrnds 
#1 ·
I drove over today and picked up a brindle-colored puppy with perfect pedigrees...shown below.

On the way home she was calm (about a 90 min drive) whle stretching out on my old housecoat in my lap.

When we got home Cujo (our lab) showed her how to drink water, though that was the only nice thing he had to do as he took an immediate dislike to her getting HIS attention! Cujo is very obedient so this did not turn into anything I could not deal with.

She started exploring about 1,000 square feet of the territory...not much but quite a bit for an 8 week old. She was quite brave even to the extent of "jumping" off a 2 ft retainer wall..not once (when she landed on her head) but twice (when she landed on her chest). The third time she walked around it (about 6 ft.)

She started to "puppy play" with a rooster when David clapped his hands together to distract her. She looked at David, looked back at the rooster and then left the rooster to continue her exploration.

We took her into the little pen I had created just for her...also seen below...and shut the door. She did not like it and let us know she didn't. After about 3 minutes we opened the door and showed her how to come out. She came out, turned around and went right back in. Laid down and went to sleep. I took her picture and left the door open.

Later (about an hour) I went to check on her and she was missing. I stepped into the barn and called her. The sound of my voice brought her to me with tail wagging. She followed me out of the barn and started looking for ways to play. She looked at the guineas (about 3 ft from her making a lot of noise). She looked at that rooster that had initially caught her eye. She looked at Cujo. Then she decided to lay down on the grass and play with that. I flipped her onto her back and started rolling her from side to side. She was playful. I stopped. She laid down on her side and rolled by herself over and over. ROFL

Now it is getting dark. She has not been with the goats as they have been keeping their distance from this new comer, being intimidated (not by her behavior) by her very presence. So I put her back into the little pen and closed the door. She started pulling a temper tantrum I've not seen for years, howling L O N G howls and getting angry that could not get out. She found a corner where a hole was and got her nose in it. I put a large rock there. She found the rock and started growling ferociously (as much as a puppy can) at that rock because it would not move. I began to wonder oh dear, maybe I've made a mistake putting a Karakachan in a little pen! I watched this fiasco for over half an hour knowing I could NOT let her win and thinking I've really blown it now! Then I decided she needed company; so I locked the goats up in that barn so they all had to cope together! This pup continued to howl and get angry! I went in and got that old housecoat she had slept on during transport & put it into her little pen. She made a few turns, then laid down and went to sleep. That was over an hour ago and all is still calm in the barn! (Wishing I had a picture of her sleeping in that little pen on my housecoat...)

This is my first experience with an LGD and so far; so good! [Oh, this little pen is the beginnings of a shelf (about 2-1/2 x 4 ft) about 2 ft off ground and without any wire around the bottom of it, which I'm creating just for "Valentina".]
 
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#4 ·
The scent thing works almost everytime to calm them down. I tell people to wear an old t-shirt work in it get it sweaty/stinky smelling like them.
Put that in with the pup on it's first night or two and it will go a long way in soothing their apprehensions.
Okay ya got your work cut out for you, good luck with the pup.

PS not sure if that orange thing is an electric cord, if so, be best to move it. All puppies chew on something till their adult teeth get set in their jaws again good luck
 
#5 ·
Thanks all.

Rock the orange thing is a line I drew onto the picture so one can see where the opening is.

Here are a couple of pictures. I'm not real good at it so the face isn't as clear as I'ld like it to be. But it will give you a good idea as to the brindle coloring....see the red in the fur?
 
#7 ·
I hate to tell you, but by the time she's 12 weeks old - that chicken wire will be toast.
She really needs a bigger, sturdier pen, complete with water, bed and some toys. As Rock said - pups chew. And this is going to be a big dog. Without good toys, her teething stage will be ... memorable.

Maurea's right - she's not angry - just a little scared and lonely. It was the right move to give her your coat. Didn't the breeder you got her from introduce her to goats? Or give you any instructions on how to introduce her? I'd call her up and ask - it will help her settle in better with less crying. As I'm sure the breeders on this forum will attest - if you ever have a question - call the breeder!! I'll bet they'll have some advice for helping her settle. It's a big experience for a little pup.

She is adorable! By the time she settles in, she'll be up for adventure, so be sure to get her used to a leash and collar now. LOL, it will help once she decides chickens are so much fun that maybe just this once she'll keep chasing. She sounds like a really good pup but they all try it once. ;)
 
#8 ·
Oh yes, I totally agree with all of you. She has already gotten out of that wire house half a dozen times, thru a hole she found and enlarged, under the wire (which was actually covered by cardboard) and over the wire which is over 2 ft tall.

Yes, the suggestions were to do exactly what I'm doing, i.e. keep her in something that she cannot get out of inside the barn with the goats at night and let her out to roam freely during the day. She and the goats have checked each other out and the goats do not want to have anything to do with her, though not once has she shown any signs of aggression toward them.

I saw her chewing on a stick today; so as soon as I get to town, I'll pick her up a few chew toys for the nights she spends in the wire house. (I know that chicken wire won't last long; but I only need it to last long enough for the goats to get use to her being in the barn with them at night; and I didn't want her hurt while the goats do this.)

If I had not witnessed Valentina's behavior I would have thought she was just a frightened puppy too. However, I do know the difference between a scared pup and an angry one. Valentina was definately angry! She is lonely! It is obvious she is missing her mother and litter mates. (I'm wishing I had let her get about a month older as I believe this transition would not have been as difficult for her had she been a little older.)

Yes, I will be teaching her what a collar and leash is this week. David has already started walking her around the fencing parameters (twice a day 2 circles each time). The first time she followed him she was just happy to be with him. The second time, she was more independent. Her character is already showing! It has become quite obvious she "thinks" for herself!

Cujo is just now tolerating her. He will let her lay near him, as long as she doesn't get too close. I even saw her eating some of his food today with his being nearby and knowing she was eating it. (This was a first and has not happened since as he growls and she moves.) Cujo now will also let her get attention from me without pushing in to get it for himself. I saw them both sleeping near each other this afternoon and I've been tempted to let her stay out of the wire house. I'm not sure her sleeping on the back porch with Cujo would be good for her because it is the goats I want her to bond with. Still she is so young that I'm just not sure! (I'm feeling rather mean to keep putting her back into the wire house during the night hours.)
 
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#9 ·
if she wasn't already introduced to goats by the breeder, I don't think it will make a difference her spending the first few nights with Cujo. She's still plenty young - there will be plenty of time for her and the goats to get used to each other.

Be sure to keep us in pictures as she grows!
 
#11 ·
Well, please remember you asked for pictures. HaHa

She isn't actually black but a very dark maroon with lighter shades next to her skin.

That bed you see is Cujo's and it is on our back porch. Cujo is eager to please and, if I actually had the time, could be trained as a service dog, though he is still too hyper. You can actually see that wish to please in his face.

Valentina's expression (with that cocked head) is letting me know she is not quite sure what I'm doing with the camera. ROFL
 
#12 ·
I am getting my male puppy from the same breeder & same litter. Mine will be home this coming sunday. My female is coming the same day but from a different breeder & totally unrelated.

This is my male puppy, Grigor.


Hope your new little girl settles in nicely. I would definitely get her some toys to chew on. Do you have a dog kennel or maybe cattle panels you can fence an area off in the goats barn for at night until her & the goats get used to each other?
She is beautiful.
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is my female, Izgrev. She is 4 months old now & already in her own little pasture with some of the breeders yearlings & doing really well.
We can hardly wait to get them home.

View attachment 8476
 
#14 ·
Backfourty, I'm not sure what you're saying. The pedigree pages shown in my original post do not show the name of the breeder from whom I purchased Valentina; and Peter Houchini's (of Running River Ranch) puppies are not ready to be sold as he doesn't like to let them go until they are 12 weeks old. So from whom did you purchase your little male? From whom did you purchase your female? (Love that coloring on her face.)

I've discovered Valentina will NOT defacate in the barn. She walks all the way to the back yard to a spot she has chosen in the grass. (She will pee in the barn, at least I saw her do so once. I grabbed her and took her out to the grass and she peed there; so as quickly as she learns, she may never pee in the barn again!)

David put a collar on her this afternoon with a very light-weight leash. He then proceeded to walk her around the parameters again. ROFL He said she was fine with the leash...as long as she could go where she wanted. ROFL So, he let her lead a little, then insisted she follow a little. He said she would sit down and/or jump around but only a little, then she would follow for a short distance. This give & take continued during the entire circling today. (I had gone to the store to get her some puppy chow and cheese treat; so she got a treat when she and David got back from their circling the last time.)

I couldn't find a toy I liked; so I cut the top of the toe off an old worn out leather shoe of mine and offerred that to Valentina. She took it and would not let go of it. She has carried that around a lot today and it is now inside her little pen with her for the night.

I do have a question. All the research I've done talks about hip/elbow problems and concerns about the rapid growth of these dogs. One breeder says to help deter such problems, feed LESS THAN 12% protein and absolutely no "puppy chow" as it is too high in protein. Another breeder gave me "adult" dog food she said this litter had been chewing on that has 24% crude protein and 20% crude fat, pointing to the 24% and leaving me with the conclusion a high protein was important. So there is the contradiction. The "adult" food I've been feeding Cujo is Pedigree, which is about 27% crude protein. The puppy chow I've found all have a high percentage of protein. Should I be concerned about this? What would you feed such a pup? (I will call the vet tomorrow to set up her appointment and will talk with her about feeding; however, I doubt she knows much more than I do about feeding this particular breed. Still I will find out.) I'm also considering getting some "Dasuquin" and "Hylasport" to help deter possible joint problems; and I read somewhere that feeding Vitamin C helps too. (Cannot remember where I read this.)
 
#17 ·
:) Great breeders! I do believe these two make a great attempt at keeping the breed pure as possible & oriented toward maintaining the LGD character they were born with. Congratulations on getting those pups Backfourty.
 
#18 ·
I tell everyone to stay at less than 30% protein to prevent knuckling over
Only ever had 1 problem with it, guess who? The dog food distributor, that had got a pup off me. Promptly the dog was starting to walk on it's toes, so we tell them how to fix it. (you think they would have caught on from the feed issue:hair) So they spend the couple hundred $$$ bucks at the vet, then do exactly what I had told em on both instances. Guess the free - $10 solution didn't cost enough to get the proper attention.
Those are beautiful pups, yours and the little redhead.

PS: I inboxed you about feed.
 
#19 ·
Beautiful pup! Pedigree is one of those less than stellar dog foods in terms of quality. Personally I feed High Energy Diamond but Diamond sells dog food marketed specifically for large breed pups. Go google and see what they have. High quality feed means less poop (they eat less because a little bit is all they need) and less skin issues, etc.
 
#21 ·
Update:

Started feeding both Cujo and Valentina near each other so as to help them learn to negotiate. As you can see by picture, so far; so good. However, this morning I gave them each the bones of two hocks I cooked for dinner last night. I, of course, ask Cujo to sit and wait while I gave Valentina hers; then gave Cujo his. A moment later, I reached to take Valentina's away from her and she let me know (beyond a doubt) she didn't want me to take it. I grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and took the bone anyway; then I sat her down and held the bone out of her reach (while I maintained a hold on her) until she knew she wasn't getting it until I decided she could have it. Then I let her have it and let go of her neck. She started enjoying it again when I started to take it away again; and again she let me know that was not ok. Again, I grabbed her by the neck and took the bone anyway. This occurred 4 times until I was sure she was better understanding I was in charge of whether or not she got it. Then I let her keep it. (Valentine chewed the meat off that bone as though she had been doing it all her little life.)
 
#22 ·
Update:
I have now taken the wire off from the little shelf I'm building Valentina. She has been staying out all night for about 2 days now. I still check on her throughout the night and have found her wondering in and out the barn and sleeping on Cujo's bed on the back porch. It is apparent the goats are more tolerant of her as they no longer back away from her when she approaches them.

Yesterday, when David took her on the parameter walk, Valentina was on a leash; and, though there were times when I saw authority issues, it was minor; and for the most part, Valentina trotted along beside (or in back) of David throughout the entire walk. Then yesterday evening, I saw Valentina circling the house all by herself. The way she was doing it looked so strange that I watched for a few minutes. She would walk about 30 ft away from the house while the entire time looking down at the parameter fencing and at the fowl and goats down in the pastures. I've never seen a dog do this before. It was obvious she was circling and not just walking out to explore. (I'm hardly believing what I'm writing now, thinking I've got it all wrong and she was just exploring; however, this pup is not acting like other pups I've had.)

Caught she and Cujo playing today. David would throw Cujo's ball quite a distance and, of course, he would run as fast as he could to catch it and, when it bounced into the air, he would jump up to get it. Valentine would not follow, but would watch; and as soon as Cujo returned with the ball, Valentine would bounce around on her little feet wanting to play with Cujo. I actually saw Cujo playing with her as she attempted to grab at his leg (and at times even the ball).

This morning as I was milking I saw Valentina walking inside the barn amongst the goats and, at times, would even nibble at what was in their feeding pans. The goats actually let her; but she didn't want any of it and would leave it to them. (It is a real good feeling to know this pup and the goats are beginning to accept each other's presence.)

Caught Valentina crawling thru the door in the garden fencing that I created for the geese/guineas/chickens. I chased her out 3 times. The 4th time I found her sitting "outside" the pen looking thru that door and just watching....wonder how long that would have lasted if I hadn't been thru with what I was doing in there......

David went to the mailbox a few days ago and Valentina followed him (over 300 ft one way), crawling under the gate. David took her back to inside the fencing. Next time she followed David to the gate, she sat just inside waiting for him to bring back the mail....not sure if she is learning or was just distracted by Cujo......
 
#23 ·
Sounds like your having fun, good deal with the bone and the growling. I also stick my hand in their food dish while they are eating, to seek out and nip any food aggregation issues in the butt early on. Lot easier to do when they are 30lbs vs 100lb+
She sounds smart, believe it or not dogs really like structure and routine.
 
#24 ·
Just had to share this....Valentina was only 8 weeks old last Monday. This picture was taken today. Notice how the goats are not frightened of her and how she is quite calm among them....really didn't expect bonding to occur so quickly.
 
#25 ·
So glad to see your pup & goats doing so well together so quickly. I hope it works that quick for mine too. My goats have never had a dog in with them though so not sure how fast they will all bond but we just got ours yesterday night.
 
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