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Bulk feed question

5K views 48 replies 7 participants last post by  bobp 
#1 ·
Our local CO-OP offers this mix for pigs and a very similar ration for creeping calves.
Do you think this is a good mix for the price?

20% Corn Gluten

20% Wheat Midds

20% Distillers Grain (DDG)

40% Chopped Corn

Vitamin & Mineral pack

This ration is 15.2% protein, 4.36% fat, 4.94% fiber. $194 per ton approx.
 
#3 ·
I could cut the wheat mids with 47% soy meal, and cut the chops with fish meal...
They said this is a mix they've sold.alot of for pigs.

I'm down ton about 1000# of the 4 supersacks of ground corn I bought... I had 4 more but sold it because I couldn't store it.
So I'm chewing on my options so I'm prepared before I run out.
Currently I'm feeding a hand mix of this ground corn, 47.5% SBM, milk pellets, and calf manna...

I do have 5 supersacks of whole corn but they don't eat it as well..I need to run it through a hammer mill ect..
 
#4 ·
You need the protein and you need the vitamins and minerals. People go to college to learn feed formulation. A little of this, a scoop of that isn't good animal husbandry.
Michigan State University Extension Service might help you balance calf feed to work for pigs. As you have learned, grinding the corn and adding it to some soybean n meal with minerals is a good start.
 
#5 ·
My point to this post is that I'm trying to be proactive and think ahead about my feed options BEFORE I run out of my current feed. Hence this is why I'm looking into the locally available bulk mixes. And asking opinions on it.

I have a bunch of whole corn...But I don't want to feed it to my feeder pigs... Unless I find a way to grind it. However It's good boar feed and a good base for non gestational sows.
 
#7 · (Edited)
My statement on corn as boar and non gestational sow feed is based on it being used as a holding feed....theyre not in performance mode. On pasture mine look just fine on corn. And corns what they're going to get for some time since I have a bunch of it. And some eggs when we can get culls from a local hen operation. We've gotten 70-80 flats in the last couple of months. But I feed them to the feeder pigs mostly..A half a flat at a time...
Also there's a point where keeping a boar doesn't make financial sense. It has to be cost effective. The less you have to put in him to keep him healthy, and functioning, the better off you are.
AND
Corn is a base or a big portion of the ingredient percentage in a majority of feed mixes. It's not difficult to read a feed sack ingredient lable... Which by law must be listed in the order of %...And Corn is a major ingredient in all kinds of feed mixes...
Not sure why this is in question?
I agree there is a science to feed mixes... But it's not brain science...
 
#9 ·
There's been many many thousands of pigs fed out on corn....

The folks I got my boar from didn't feed they're boars at all except as a treat to move em ECT... Pastured only... He looked great when I got him.. I don't see where feeding him a bit of corn daily is hurting him at all.
 
#10 ·
There's been many many thousands of pigs fed out on corn....

The folks I got my boar from didn't feed they're boars at all except as a treat to move em ECT... Pastured only... He looked great when I got him.. I don't see where feeding him a bit of corn daily is hurting him at all.
If you have a good pasture and woods with a lot of nuts like acorns pigs do just find without anything else. No need for all that added stuff that the feed store sell for their profit. :)

I have a group of pigs that does not get any added stuff that the feed stores sell. Years ago when we had open range we just let the pigs wonder in the forest and in the fall go and pen them up and ship them.
 
#11 ·
I've never tried finishing on acorns. Before doing it with a large number of pigs I would suggest doing a test or few because the tannins in the acorns might come through in the flavor of the pork. I have read that pigs raised for some period on acorns are finished on something sweeter to remove the acorn flavor - the acorns are more a cheap source of protein and fat.

Interestingly, acorns can be a problem for ruminants and I have a friend from England who says that they send the pigs through the forest to clean out the acorns ahead of the cows to prevent the cows from getting hurt by the acorns.

-Walter
 
#12 ·
Having seen pigs become paralyzed and die on a straight corn diet, I think most people new to pork production forget trace minerals.
I'll agree that owning a boar isn't economical for just a few sows. But I don't think the solution is to scrimp on his feed. I'd rather see you get more sows or learn AI.
The feed ingredient label lists according to quantity, not by importance.
 
#13 ·
Our boar is doing extremely well for his poor treatment... The poor things having to eat grass, clovers, wild carrots, and acorns, and nasty ole grubs n such... oh and the filthy ole mineral block he's made to lick on...And to top it off...He's forced to eat a bunch of free corn... the poor mistreated thing...
Funny thing is... He's big. Healthy. Full of energy.
We move the pig tractor Avery couple of days... They clean up what they find...

Folks have been fattening hogs on acorns for ages... they used to free range them on the oak flats here....And mine will follow you anywhere for a handful of em... They eat em like candy... However I'm unclear on how it's taste as a sole source finisher feed..
 

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#15 ·
Our boar is doing extremely well for his poor treatment... The poor things having to eat grass, clovers, wild carrots, and acorns, and nasty ole grubs n such... oh and the filthy ole mineral block he's made to lick on...And to top it off...He's forced to eat a bunch of free corn... the poor mistreated thing...
Funny thing is... He's big. Healthy. Full of energy.
We move the pig tractor Avery couple of days... They clean up what they find...

Folks have been fattening hogs on acorns for ages... they used to free range them on the oak flats here....And mine will follow you anywhere for a handful of em... They eat em like candy... However I'm unclear on how it's taste as a sole source finisher feed..
The most expensive pork in the world is porkers finished on Acorns. I have a group of pigs i finish on Acorns and pasture. If you can get Acorns to feed your pigs you can get a very good price for the Hams. 100% Acorn fed pork is the very best. One company gets $150 a pound for their aged Hams that has been fattened on Acorns.
 
#14 ·
price sounds decent we pay $6 a 50lb bag regardless all the way up to a ton still $6 per bag regardless but all we get is ground corn and soy.
 
#16 ·
(((One company gets $150 a pound for their aged Hams that has been fattened on Acorns.))[/QUOTE]

I find this statement interesting. Are there any US seller that you know of?
 
#17 · (Edited)
(((One company gets $150 a pound for their aged Hams that has been fattened on Acorns.))
I find this statement interesting. Are there any US seller that you know of?[/QUOTE]

Itlay,France,Spain, and a couple other countries raise most of this pork. There are a couple here in the U.S. raising it also. You can google and find the companies.

Google: Cinco Jotas Acorn, 100% Iberico boneless ham.

Google: USA Acorn fed pork.

Google: Acorn finished pork On the page. The 3rd link down on the page is a good one.

Goole the above for listing of usa acorn fed pork.
 
#19 ·
A farmer was selling butcher hogs, based on hanging weight. He didn't get a deposit on them and at butcher time, three people backed out. Not wanting to put any more money into them, he switched them over to whey from a local cheese plant. By the time I heard about them being for sale, they had passed 300 pounds. The hanging weight reflected that increase. However, the boxes of pork were about the same as you'd expect from a standard 240 pounder. I protested. The butcher, expecting to be questioned, had saved the hide and the FOUR inches of fat trimmed off these hogs to show me. The whey just went to fat production. I'd never buy a butcher hog that had gotten much whey after they had gotten past market weight.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I have a lot of red oak and I've wondered about the tannins also. Red oak acorns will often sit on the ground until spring when they are consumed by winter starved wild animals. White oak including bear oak are cleaned up far more quickly. I have had pigs devour red oak leaves where there was plenty of feed for them.
 
#21 ·
Not good idea to feed pigs many red oak acorns. Red Red oak Acorns is very high in tannins and will cause the pork to be a bit bitter if they eat to many of them. Tannin is poisonous to Humans,Cattle, Horses, Sheep, and Goats.

White oak acorns is low in Tannin and the pigs love them. If you have a lot of white oak the pigs will do good on the acorns.

White Oak Acorns contain large amounts of protein,carbohydrates,carbohydrates,fats and vitamin niacin. minerals, calcium, phosphorus and potassium.

Most of the wild life eats red oak acorns and do well eating the acorns.

Red oak acorns can be put in water and washed and left for a day and rinsed to remove tannin. This process has to be done a few times until the rinse water is clear and has no dirty look to it. this is a lot of work and takes up a lot of time so i don't do that. The caps on the red oak acorn is were most of the tannin.
 
#22 ·
Haypoint, that sounds like they were on whole milk rather than whey. What I've found is whole milk puts about 4" of back fat on pigs. Whey puts about 3/4" of back fat on pigs. This is assuming pasture for the rest of their diet and the dairy component free fed which comes out to be about 3.5 gallons per hundred weight of pig per day as that seems to be the limit of what their digestive tracts and kidneys can handle.

Krackin, I vaguely remember reading a paper that said the aged (sat over the winter) acorns have less tannins. There is a difference between oak species too based on what I've read. My experience is just from reading books and articles as I have no oaks.

-Walter
 
#24 ·
Open to all question! How much do you sell your 250Lb hogs for? With considerations that the customer comes to the farm and picks it up same day.
 
#27 ·
Open to all question! How much do you sell your 250Lb hogs for? With considerations that the customer comes to the farm and picks it up same day.
Pricing varies tremendously with location and somewhat with what you're offering. There can be steep price gradients even between towns just ten minutes apart. This is why I farm in the mountains where land is cheap (and pigs sell for less) but sell down in the more urban areas within about 100 miles of our farm. I get $4/lb hanging weight + processing. If I was willing to go twice as far the prices would go up to $6/lb+processing. I know this because some wholesalers bought for years from us and resell down in Boston and NYC where they got that extra $2/lb. Likewise, their cost of business and living is higher than mine.

How you sell also determines what level of inspection you need (Custom, State, USDA) and other licenses and insurance.

Mostly I sell to stores and restaurants. They buy about 80% of what we produce which we deliver to them weekly year round. They also pay for delivery which pays for the gas and vehicle. Retail cuts are about 20% higher than the wholesale base price which is about the same as the whole pig price.

Do contact your insurance agent to make sure you have the right sort of coverage and your state department of ag to make sure you have the right licenses as this varies state to state.

-Walter
 
#31 ·
Who would I get insurance through and what kind? I did get into contact with the TN Department of Agriculture and they are mostly vague at best but I have found out from them I just processed through a USDA approved slaughterhouse have the meat package and labeled correctly then have it transported in a freezer to the market location by someone who is food safe certified. just in the last year here locally I have found out there are a lot of small and hobby farms who would love to know a easy way to sell directly to the grocery store and stuff.
 
#28 ·
Oh, and we get the same price castrated or not castrated. This is because we bred, fed and managed taint out. With random boars, especially if penned on grain, then you would want to test them or castrate. The research says that only about 10% of boars have boar taint at market size (250 lb live weight) and that by feeding a high fiber diet and keeping them in clean pens this can be reduced to about 1%. Genetics is the other component and that takes time.
 
#29 ·
Right now, at auction, about $100.00 each 240 pound hog. That is market price, the auction gets a few dollars out of that. Anything you get above that price is salesmanship.

http://www.napoleontack.com/marketrpt.htm

If they aren't castrated, price drops to $25 to $50.
http://www.davidclarkauction.com/images/103017 mkt report.pdf
That about what mine go for. I sell my piglets before 50lb for $20 to $35 and large boar for $100 plus the delivery charge to the local slaughterhouse. Although I did just let one go that weighed in a 510 lb live for $100 but he was old and as mean as they come he also killed one of my sows during breeding so I just wanted him gone.
 
#30 ·
What breed of hogs do you have? What did you feed them ? Will they buy them live? How much money have you got in the pigs?
I get different prices for butcher hogs that are raised under different condition and fed different foods.

More info. please.
yorkshire crossed with what I think is hampshire. They are about 80 to 90% freerange the rest of their food supply consists of slop and hog feed I buy from another local farmer who sells his hog feed at about $5 to$6 per bag. as of right now I am in a rut and I have about $75 into each pig but most are over or at 250lb.
 
#32 ·
As you move into the public food chain, regulations increase. But, like most regulations there are loopholes, sort of.
Obviously, selling your customer a hog, taking their pig to a slaughter facility and they pick up the boxes of meat, is easiest and common. But it is a lot of pork. So, you could sell a "share" in a hog and sell 2, 4 or 6 shares for each hog. Just be sure the butcher understands and creates evenly divided boxes of meat.
Regulations vary from state to state. For the above transaction, any, seldom inspected, slaughter facility is fine. Selling on the open market requires a facility that has a USDA inspector on site when the slaughter happens. Plus, as you noted, regulated transportation.
 
#33 ·
Ya we are really trying to get our hog numbers up all while pushing into the grocery store food chain market. As of right now we are in a rut due to my hog prices being about $75 into each hog. It is my own fault though due to I just bought out everything a local farmer had in his pig and hog stock. But on the upside I did pick up one really nice yorkshire breeding boar 7 market weight sows and a few piglets for $300 cash but the down side of the deal was I owe him some pork come spring and one sow had a busted leg which his wife made me promise to get her on the mined and keep her as a breeder. an I have had the worse luck with that breeder since I got here. I got her to stop limping on the leg but still even after worming cant get her to put some weight back on.
 
#35 ·
Krackin, I vaguely remember reading a paper that said the aged (sat over the winter) acorns have less tannins. There is a difference between oak species too based on what I've read. My experience is just from reading books and articles as I have no oaks.

-Walter
That makes sense along with Gerold's mention of the caps. By spring the caps have come off, I expect drying, freezing, soaking, etc. mechanics all have a play.

I do have some white oak in trees, I don't know the particular specie, much more as bear oak which is the scrub of the Ossipee Pine Barrens. I wont use that for hogs or agriculture now. Let it be. Whip'poorwills like it along side my corn fields. They need it more than I.
 
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