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Working and Companion Animals From Kittens to Homestead hounds, bring your dog and cat questions here!


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  #81  
Old 02/05/17, 01:03 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Ted, I see aussies herding all the time. Some of the other people here have also spoken about working Aussies. I have two friends with Aussies (who have health problems preventing them from being anything but house dogs) who try to herd cats, children or even strangers in their house. Heck, if Corgis can herd cows and ducks, an aussie can. :P In any case it's no huge deal because....

Celestial, we could easily end up with a high energy dog with no real herding instinct. That's OK and we've put that on our applications. The plan was to get a third dog first (we were originally considering a weimeriner or a pitt!) and the idea of a herding dog came second. We have two high energy dogs as it is. We'd just LIKE it if the dog could herd our animals. I also would have LIKED it if my husky didn't try to murder my chickens and rabbits. Yet, despite several murders (including my animals, wild animals, and a stray cat my neighbor was feeding) my husky still lives with me here. Through long years of training, we've not only found a way to make peace between her and the farm animals, but even redirect her bad behavior to driving off predators and nuisance animals. We're dedicated to owning dogs, and we have a history that shows it. We'd be happy to explain this to any potential adoptee, but we're not even getting past the application process.

Also, I am totally fine with paying a reasonable, even a high, rehoming fee... But given that I've had a few groups asking for $500-$650 for a dog I'd have to drive over a few hours for I feel like that's unreasonable because I could literally buy a purebred puppy from a local farm with their shots, MDR1 testing AND get them fixed for less than that.
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  #82  
Old 02/05/17, 03:56 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bel Aire, KS
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I wouldn't necessarily call that type of herding actual herding. There's a reason why other breeds are more popular than Aussies because they get stuff done. Aussie's way of herding is more of a hazing....basically they weave back and forth while pushing cattle from behind. They're also more laid back too with less strong eye compared to border collies. I've tried contacting numerous Aussie breeders who claim their dogs herd or are from herding parents and none of them will back up their claims. I know of maybe 2 that I would consider buying from. One guy in Alabama and one person a few states over. Anything with Hart (not in any way related to me, btw) bloodline is good and Slash bloodline is good also. Look on Aussie herding on Youtube if you haven't already. I don't call it herding from what I've seen. Pincie Creek bloodline is good also.

It's a dirty secret that there is a working bloodline vs show bloodline out there. I had a friend who spent over $1k getting a pup from what he was told was working bloodlines to find out the dog preferred herding (pushing actually) a ball and catching frisbees vs herding. He ended up having that dog neutered at 2 or 3 years old. He has decided not to try to get into herding and focused more on Aussie rescue instead. http://theaustralianshepherd.net/wor...orking-v-show/

I also dislike extremely long hair because it's hell to deal with when you're pulling out briars and stickers, etc....I did run across one Aussie who did have what I would call short hair and it was kinda wiry...waterproof. His breeder said he shaved that dog once and his hair came back in short and like that for the rest of the dog's life. I liked that hair.

I'm more accustomed to the catahoula style of herding, I guess. They're primarily head dogs whose sole job is to go and put the critters in a herd together and you ride or walk from behind and they'll keep the herd together without having to be told to go lie down or stay there, etc..I personally hate having to tell a dog repeatedly where to go and what to do like border collies, etc....catahoulas can be used to push critters through a chute but they have to be introduced to the concept first before they'll start wanting to know what you want them to do it.....
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  #83  
Old 02/05/17, 11:40 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Ted, all the aussie breeders around here with working aussies have videos on their websites of their dogs competing in herding competitions or herding on their individual farms. So I figure that's pretty good at backing up their claims. :P I'm well aware that in every working dog breed, there's "working" lines and "show" lines. It shows very clearly on the websites when you look at the dogs and how they are presented.

For example, one local website for working aussies is actually a cattle ranch website with a page on their working aussies that work their cows. The pictures always show the dogs being active, even if sometimes those shots are of dogs jumping agility hurdles rather than pushing cows. (Though many of the shots are of them actually working.) Most of these breeders will at the bare minimum have a special page dedicated to showing their dogs at work, if they don't show them as their main photos, and they will probably have videos.

One show aussie website locally shows every single dog in perfect profile with a show stance. Lots of dramatic profile shots of sparkling clean dogs and adorable head tilts as the intro pictures. Which might be OK, if it weren't for every picture thereafter just being pictures of those dogs at shows.

It's really not hard to tell when it comes to breeders if you know what you're looking for in the slightest. The two lines of dogs also look different. The working aussies seem leaner (or maybe just less fluffy) and something about the faces and the set of the ears is longer and less cute and puppy like.

Which is why, if I'm gonna take a rescue... They had best not be charging me the same prices as a purebred working dog! I mean, if I end up with just a great, active, pet dog. I'm OK with that. But I'm not going to pay working line purebred dog prices for it, or jump through a million hoops....

Ultimately, the point is it doesn't really matter if their working instinct isn't ideal. I don't have 300 head of sheep to move. :P I just would like a dog that CAN herd to back me up. I can handle my animals on my own if I need to, should the dog be unable to herd. It would still have a home.
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  #84  
Old 02/06/17, 07:16 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New york
Posts: 8,173
I kind of take issue with people referring to certain herding breeds as "Extremely high energy". The parents of our one dog were working farm dogs on a Dairy farm. The father was a Border Collie/ Australian Shepard mix and the mother was a Kelpie/ Blue Heeler mix. "Ellie" looks very much like her mother. You can see the Kelpie and Heeler in her. She is extremely intelligent. More so than any dog I have ever owned. And she is high energy and almost tireless, but she has her mellow moments too. When ever I hear of people giving the "high energy" line they sell it like the dog is an overgrown Shrew on speed. Not so. I recently had to put down my Llewellyn setter. ( wow, just typing that brought tears to my eyes). She was also a "high energy" dog who also had a favorite cushion on the couch. Don't be afraid of active dogs. They simply get more done in less time. I like their attitude. It's not energy, it's joy.
They let us know what a pleasure it is to live.
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  #85  
Old 02/07/17, 11:32 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North eastern California
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JJ Grandits

To say I am sorry for your loss is a rather empty platitude since each of us knows the void left when we lose a dog.

The use of hyper active is a term I use to disuade a back yard confinement of a working dog. I try to discourage people from taking a working dog and locking them up 20 hours a day. The results of that behavior are ruined dogs and ruined landscaping.

Couple of years back I got bucked off a horse he backed into a choyo cactus that broke off and stuck in his tail. My Heeler was completely out of patience with me by the time I could get up and go back to work around the place. I can't imagine my dog locked in a back yard. When I go to the small town 20 miles down the road I wish you could see the working dogs in the bed of the truck or on the flat bed just one big mud ball except the smile on their face. This is the life a working dog was meant to have.

Just one old guys opinion. I think cruelty to an animal comes in many forms working them is not one of those. I have a well made dog compound with shelter and all that goes mostly unused my dogs prefer settling in by digging a wallow in a snow bank. Go figure.

Funny how some of the best dogs come out of a jumped fence parentage.
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  #86  
Old 02/07/17, 11:55 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Manolito, given how active our dogs are I would agree with you but... On messy days we often play fetch up and down stairs just to burn off some of the exuberance. Right now we have 8" of standing water in the back yard and the chicken fence is down from the foot of snow earlier this week. No way that I can send my dogs out there right now. (I really oughta set up an area to wash my dogs in the garage to save my floors...) But lots of people have house dogs with that energy level and manage them through walking, playing, and other exercise.

When I was in an apartment still some years back, my neighbors had a border collie mix that was just EVERYWHERE. But they found ways to manage their dog with walking, puppy playdates, dog parks, etc. It really depends on the management of the owners I think.
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  #87  
Old 02/07/17, 04:37 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North eastern California
Posts: 82
I will never argue what works for people and what they do with their animals I can only say how I feel and how I treat my dogs.

Sounds like we have similar weather. Keeping the house clean this time of year is tough we burn wood so the mess of that alone is difficult to keep up with.

On a day like today working out side the dogs will stay outside all day and we have a water trough with a heater in it. At night I throw them in the trough wipe them down and lay them on a dog pallet by the wood stove. Then a hot dinner of dog food and hot water mixed. Then kennels in the garage.

My dogs are a lot like my jeep get it muddy clean it and repeat often. Won't work for all the people just what works for me. At times my wife would prefer I got in the trough before coming into the mud room.
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  #88  
Old 02/07/17, 05:52 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New york
Posts: 8,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
JJ Grandits

To say I am sorry for your loss is a rather empty platitude since each of us knows the void left when we lose a dog.

The use of hyper active is a term I use to disuade a back yard confinement of a working dog. I try to discourage people from taking a working dog and locking them up 20 hours a day. The results of that behavior are ruined dogs and ruined landscaping.

Couple of years back I got bucked off a horse he backed into a choyo cactus that broke off and stuck in his tail. My Heeler was completely out of patience with me by the time I could get up and go back to work around the place. I can't imagine my dog locked in a back yard. When I go to the small town 20 miles down the road I wish you could see the working dogs in the bed of the truck or on the flat bed just one big mud ball except the smile on their face. This is the life a working dog was meant to have.

Just one old guys opinion. I think cruelty to an animal comes in many forms working them is not one of those. I have a well made dog compound with shelter and all that goes mostly unused my dogs prefer settling in by digging a wallow in a snow bank. Go figure.

Funny how some of the best dogs come out of a jumped fence parentage.

I do agree. no herding dog is an apartment pet. Maybe we are just active people. As long as Ellie is with me or one of our family she is happy. She worships my son. Actually, she worships everyone. My great nephew comes over for the weekend and will play fetch with her till that dog is crawling on the ground. Kids got a good arm.
If you are an outdoor kind of person and want a great companion I can not think of a better type of dog. Smart, easy to train, loyal, great watch dogs. Been trying to teach her to weed the garden. Not quite there yet.
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  #89  
Old 02/08/17, 01:43 AM
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CelestielPrairieAcres
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: NE Kansas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
Ted, I see aussies herding all the time. Some of the other people here have also spoken about working Aussies. I have two friends with Aussies (who have health problems preventing them from being anything but house dogs) who try to herd cats, children or even strangers in their house. Heck, if Corgis can herd cows and ducks, an aussie can. :P In any case it's no huge deal because....

Celestial, we could easily end up with a high energy dog with no real herding instinct. That's OK and we've put that on our applications. The plan was to get a third dog first (we were originally considering a weimeriner or a pitt!) and the idea of a herding dog came second. We have two high energy dogs as it is. We'd just LIKE it if the dog could herd our animals. I also would have LIKED it if my husky didn't try to murder my chickens and rabbits. Yet, despite several murders (including my animals, wild animals, and a stray cat my neighbor was feeding) my husky still lives with me here. Through long years of training, we've not only found a way to make peace between her and the farm animals, but even redirect her bad behavior to driving off predators and nuisance animals. We're dedicated to owning dogs, and we have a history that shows it. We'd be happy to explain this to any potential adoptee, but we're not even getting past the application process.

Also, I am totally fine with paying a reasonable, even a high, rehoming fee... But given that I've had a few groups asking for $500-$650 for a dog I'd have to drive over a few hours for I feel like that's unreasonable because I could literally buy a purebred puppy from a local farm with their shots, MDR1 testing AND get them fixed for less than that.
My first thought based on this would be to ask if you have applied to "foster" for any groups, if there is something more specific that is the issue you may get a more direct follow up. I can't say why your apps are being denied, having a farm seems to be a stupid response because you say you have a fenced backyard, assume other pets are utd on shots and spayed. (sorry if I missed that, I didn't reread back through) you would be a good candidate for most general groups requirements (Power breeds have diff requirements).

Fostering could be a great way to find that "right" fit if you are open to it. Fosters are ALWAYS needed. Foster and request breeds that you are interested. If you have one that doesn't fit, you are just the temp home until they find their forever home. If you find the right one, we call that a "foster failure!" I will add that many foster based groups adopt out to "fosters" at a different rate as well. I have two inside foster failures and the adoption rates were based on "actual" vet fees paid for the dogs.
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  #90  
Old 02/08/17, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MO
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TedH71...you are aware that certain breeds have different herding styles, right? Seems like just maybe you like a particular style, consider it more useful.

I love the herding breeds, some more than others. I absolutely love Border Collies, had one from working lines (hog farm) and she came with an "Off" button installed. I tend though, to have Belgians, and they have a different herding style...not bad, just different.

I had two dogs, different litters, from the same breeder. She bred her dogs for show AND working. Both dogs were herding tested...one dog looked at the sheep and said "YEEhaw!"...we had trainers drooling to train him. The other dog walked into the ring with the sheep, said, "Hi guys! Oh look, tootsie rolls! Come on, I'll share, they're good!"

Just because a dog is from herding lines, does not mean it is meant to herd.

Mon
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  #91  
Old 02/08/17, 03:58 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bel Aire, KS
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Mon, correct. I've also found out that the New Zealand Huntaway is a breed I would consider buying because their herding style is similar to the catahoula but they're not as rough on the sheep. They bark while working because where they typically live is in the mountains and the owners need to know where the dog is working. There are quite a few NZ Huntaway breeders in America if you Google to find them apparently.
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  #92  
Old 02/09/17, 12:04 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Celestial, I have not considered fostering. My dogs are utd on shots and fixed. However you bring up an excellent point I'd love to hear some thoughts on.

A lot of applications ask not about pets or dogs, but they ask things like "Are all animals on the property spayed, neutered and current on all vaccines?", or "How many animals do you own" or "Do you own any small animals", "Do you keep any of your animals outside" etc. How do I go about answering these?

The "correct" answer on paper is all my animals are fixed and utd on shots and I only own two indoor dogs but that's not really true at all. I have 12 unfixed adult rabbits, and I raise my chickens vaccine free (though I am NPIP), I actively breed both, and of course I keep them outdoors. If they ask about pets I can be mostly truthful and say my rabbits/chickens are not pets if asked. But many times they ask about animals in total, not pets. A lot of applications don't leave room for explanation until much later in the notes section. Should I just outright lie about it?

I also don't know how to explain that they're livestock and therefore the loss of a few laying hens over the years to an under trained dog is not a deal breaker for me without coming off as very callous.

How do I handle that situation of trying to explain to a bunch of crazy animal lovers that I'm not a hoarder even though I have 30 animals on a suburban property, and that my animals are gonna end up in a stewpot in the next two years anyhow so loosing a couple to a dog is not critical?

I think that's the #1 area I am running into problems on applications. :/
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  #93  
Old 02/09/17, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
A lot of applications ask not about pets or dogs, but they ask things like "Are all animals on the property spayed, neutered and current on all vaccines?", or "How many animals do you own" or "Do you own any small animals", "Do you keep any of your animals outside" etc. How do I go about answering these?:/
The groups I have worked with have always told me not to list the livestock. They are inquiring about household pets, mainly cats and dogs (small animals being chinchillas, ferrets, guinea pigs etc.)

Now if you had a house chicken, then I am sure they would want to know about that. I would just list that you do own some outside livestock (whom I assume are in cages/chicken coops with fences separating them from the dogs) and leave it at that.

If they have additional questions it will much easier to explain/discuss on the phone or in person. This is when you could talk to them about the fact that you have a dog who killed a few chickens but you worked through it and wouldn't get rid of the dog.

"Do you keep any of your animals outside?" Dogs chained outside or kept in outside kennels all the time is more so what this question is asking.

You raising livestock for your personal consumption (or selling for that purpose) has no bearing on who you are as a pet owner. When I have anyone scoff at the fact that we raise and butcher our own animals, I simply ask them if they eat meat. If they respond yes, I tell them that I appreciate knowing where the food on my table came from and how it was treated until it got there.


Most foster and adoption apps are pretty much the same so you could always list that you are looking to foster/adopt and just put the breeds you are interested in. "All-breed" rescues can be a bit easier to work with and you could still find the breed you are looking for, so keep those in mind too along with the breed specific rescues. Good Luck!
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  #94  
Old 02/09/17, 04:29 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Thanks. Doesn't explain why I never hear back from groups who don't ask questions with those broad definitions but gives me something to go off of in the future.
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  #95  
Old 02/09/17, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
Thanks. Doesn't explain why I never hear back from groups who don't ask questions with those broad definitions but gives me something to go off of in the future.
Yeah I am not sure what to say there other than they are "flakey!" Even if they didn't want to adopt a dog to a "farm" the professional thing to do is email or call them to let them know why their application isn't moving forward.

Many groups have phone numbers for board members/directors listed on their websites, send out a follow up email or call. If they have a facebook page make a public comment on the page stating how unprofessional it was that you never heard back.

Where are you in Ohio? Can PM if you prefer. Just wondering how far of a road trip it would be..... worst case meeting somewhere if we could find the type of dog you were looking for. I just adopted out an Australian Shepherd red merle with blue eyes late last month through Saving Death Row Dogs in KS. I only had him as a foster for 2 weeks.
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  #96  
Old 02/10/17, 12:33 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 641
I don't mind. I live near a big city, so it's fine. But unfortunately, I'm about as far from you as possible, being in Northeast Ohio near Cleveland. However, I'm willing to drive fairly far (I drove 5 hours one way for my husky), but I need to consider gas (and possibly a hotel if it's more than a 5 hour drive one way) into what I think is reasonable to spend on a dog... Bearing in mind I could have had any number of puppies by now for $300 from breeders less than an hour from my home.
The rescue that wanted $650 for a puppy I would have to drive 6 hours for and then lying and saying it was cheaper than buying a dog? Definately in the not reasonable category. :P
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  #97  
Old 02/16/17, 07:55 PM
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There's an Australian Cattle Dog at our local shelter, here in MD. It's about 7 hours from Cleveland, according to Google.
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  #98  
Old 02/17/17, 02:23 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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MD, not quite what I'm looking for (and pretty far away at that) but I can look. Can you post a link? Is it an adult dog? Do they know anything about it other than it's an aussie cattle dog?
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  #99  
Old 02/18/17, 11:23 AM
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Location: Maryland
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MD, not quite what I'm looking for (and pretty far away at that) but I can look. Can you post a link? Is it an adult dog? Do they know anything about it other than it's an aussie cattle dog?
Here's their FB page. He's 2 years old. Scroll down to the Feb 16th post.

He's called Mate.
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  #100  
Old 02/18/17, 04:44 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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He's a QT pi, and it looks like he has a lot of attention on their FB page already. I'm a little hesitant on the ACD's cause they tend to be more mouth-y, right? Everything says Aussies are versatile, Heelers bite. I worry about him being able to help me corner a rabbit or move the chickens or move future ducks without injuring them. I'm not sure he'd be a great fit.
I wanna rescue and I will keep a dog if it doesn't turn out the way I'd like in any case. But I'd also like to set myself up for success, especially if it requires a larger investment of resources.
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