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Working and Companion Animals From Kittens to Homestead hounds, bring your dog and cat questions here!


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  #61  
Old 12/18/16, 07:44 PM
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Omg, they are asking $650 for this mixed breed puppy. Mind you, the dog is fixed and microchipped... But we have a local shelter that charges $66 for their fixed, utd on shots dogs. For $650 I could literally purchase an AKC registered working dog from a breeder and have it come with it's first round of shots, great lineage, and a health certificate.

Thus I think most peoples complaints about rescues.

It is about $225 here for shelter dogs. Cats I am not sure the price of, but they are not particularly good with even trying to place those. I have been told but don't know for sure that they make money selling the cat bodies to some company that resells them for biology classes and the like.
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  #62  
Old 12/18/16, 08:35 PM
 
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If you are near Bowling Green Humane Society in Ohio, check them out! They are a fantastic shelter. I've gotten many of my foster dogs from there over the years.
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  #63  
Old 12/18/16, 09:47 PM
 
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Bowling Green is not so far. I wonder if they'd have the right breeds. Not been seeing them in shelters but I can certainly reach out.
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  #64  
Old 12/19/16, 10:31 AM
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My daughter's family got the guard dog puppy they were looking for, by asking their vet if they knew anyone who raised that particular breed. So, vet's, or friend's vets might be a good place to find your dog!

Mon
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  #65  
Old 12/19/16, 05:28 PM
 
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Well, if I wanna buy a dog there's plenty of places around to buy one from. Lots of em will sell to me. I don't need to talk to anyone if I wanna find a good breeder. I have 3 on tap if I want to buy one in the $600-$800 range, and they're in the paper and various classifieds if I want one in the $300-$400 range (though less trustworthy).

Plenty of places to buy a dog if you want one. It's easy. It's proving MUCH harder to rescue than to buy!
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  #66  
Old 12/20/16, 01:32 PM
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I've run into ignorant judgments over the years with my hounds. One spring years ago I was taking a litter of weaned pups to a guy's house to allow him to take his pick for stud fee. He had been in a car accident and couldn't drive so I loaded the pups into my dog box and headed to see him. They were in the box 20 min, fat glossy, happy registered Walker pups. We stopped for breakfast , (had a hungry toddler) and while eating I looked out and a lady was unloading the pups into her car. I went out and asked what she was doing and she began to rant and rave about them being abused and forced into a cage. I politely tried to reason with the woman while her husband/man stood eyes down embarrassed. Then a cop pulls up to get Breakfast. He advised her to put them back before he had to get officially involved. Her husband helped me out them back while she laid prone in the parking lot and screamed and cried. She worked in the local humane society she said. It was insane.
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  #67  
Old 12/20/16, 01:39 PM
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I had a vet refuse me service for a castration on a young hound because I wouldn't consent to his vaccination service. He lectured me about using ivomec in dogs while standing in front of a havaheart poster.
I had someone pick up a good Walker female of mine one night. I looked for her for 2 weeks. I finally got a tip about the county humane society. I had called twice and left my number ect. I walked in with my wife and low and behold there was my female. WITH my collar name tag right on top. The refused to let me take her. They said I had to pay adoption fees, and have her spayed ect. I lost it. I went to the truck and got a leash, I went in and took my female and then called the Sherriff. He said he had warned them previously.

There are a lot of fanatics every where. I feel your pain, most should simply mind they're own business and leave you to your own devices. What kind of dog you own ect is none of they're business.
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  #68  
Old 12/20/16, 06:49 PM
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Well, yeah, if you own a hound of any sort, you automatically relinquish your right to not be harassed. Good buddy of mine had a hound go missing last year. Middle of nowhere on national forest, while engaged in a lawful hunt, with all necessary permits. He just blipped off the GPS screen, near a fire trail. Another person engaged in the hunt met an SUV coming out of the area, but didn't get a signal. After going to the last place they had a signal, and hunting with a fine tooth comb, they found the collar in a creek with the guts busted out. After extensive searching, he found his dog, a couple weeks later, in a shelter a couple counties away. His collar with his name and phone number was still attached. Nobody bothered calling him, his friend's girlfriend just happened to go in the place looking, because she was in the area. Dog had a freeze brand, so pretty easy to recognize. It never occurred to anyone that the dog belonged to anyone, such as the person whose name was printed on the collar. It was just an abused hunting dog that they were rescuing. Whoever originally rescued it must have gotten tired of it, or it got away from them when they got to town. Compared to what most pet dogs look like, with an unhealthy layer of blubber, any well conditioned hound is going to look abused to people that don't know any better. They bashed what they thought was a cruel shocking collar with a rock, and what they bashed was actually the dogs lifeline and connection to it's owner. They tried to get him to neuter his dog and pay an adoption fee to get it back, when he went back with law enforcement to explain that they were technically in possession of stolen property, they decided to forgo those formalities.
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  #69  
Old 12/20/16, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bobp View Post
I had a vet refuse me service for a castration on a young hound because I wouldn't consent to his vaccination service. He lectured me about using ivomec in dogs while standing in front of a havaheart poster.
I had someone pick up a good Walker female of mine one night. I looked for her for 2 weeks. I finally got a tip about the county humane society. I had called twice and left my number ect. I walked in with my wife and low and behold there was my female. WITH my collar name tag right on top. The refused to let me take her. They said I had to pay adoption fees, and have her spayed ect. I lost it. I went to the truck and got a leash, I went in and took my female and then called the Sherriff. He said he had warned them previously.

There are a lot of fanatics every where. I feel your pain, most should simply mind they're own business and leave you to your own devices. What kind of dog you own ect is none of they're business.
My vet won't take an animal for surgery unless it has been vaccinated for parvo and rabbies. It isn't about forcing you to vaccinate so much as it is protecting the other people's animals from exposure to things your animal may be carrying via their blood and other fluids. Except when my last dog needed surgery, I did not vaccinate her and he was fine with treating her otherwise as long as he was not keeping her overnight. If he kept them in an isolation building, he would have had to staff that and the procedure costs went up astronomically. His clinic is in a converted double garage at his house and as long as they are vaccinated, he can just keep them there and monitor himself.
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  #70  
Old 01/12/17, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
Omg, they are asking $650 for this mixed breed puppy. Mind you, the dog is fixed and microchipped... But we have a local shelter that charges $66 for their fixed, utd on shots dogs. For $650 I could literally purchase an AKC registered working dog from a breeder and have it come with it's first round of shots, great lineage, and a health certificate.

Thus I think most peoples complaints about rescues.
That is way too much. One of my cats I originally adopted out, but it didn't work out, so she came back to live with us.

My total costs to get her ready to adopt came to over $600 (spay, shots, etc. She was pregnant, which made the spay more expensive. We couldn't take on the kittens. Sad.)

I asked for only 1/3 of my costs as an adoption fee. The adopters gladly paid it. The fee should cover your costs and screen out unsavory people. It's not meant to create profit. Just wow!

Jen M. (a solo rescuer)
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  #71  
Old 01/12/17, 01:55 AM
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Jeeze no kidding. 600 is around the price range of a spay around here. I always assumed 200-400 dollars is okay for a no-kill rescue, even if they get a lot of donations, in part because some of the dogs basically get held onto indefinitely and that can add up. But if they're getting a big enough discount on vet bills and food, plus donations, $650 would probably turn quite a dang profit, especially if they're a high-turnover kind of shelter.

I'd love to see the shelter laws in each state someday, I'm just too lazy to look it up. Kind of seems like there should be some better laws in place...but then I guess half the shelters would shut down.
There DEFINITELY need to be better laws in place. The law does not cover much. I lived in one of the wealthiest counties in MD, and the shelter there was AWFUL. The animal services unit has since been taken over by the county police department, and they built a new, larger, more modern facility, but I have no idea if the organization is actually any better. LOTS of horror stories about the old one.

Jen M.
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  #72  
Old 01/12/17, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by bobp View Post
I've run into ignorant judgments over the years with my hounds. One spring years ago I was taking a litter of weaned pups to a guy's house to allow him to take his pick for stud fee. He had been in a car accident and couldn't drive so I loaded the pups into my dog box and headed to see him. They were in the box 20 min, fat glossy, happy registered Walker pups. We stopped for breakfast , (had a hungry toddler) and while eating I looked out and a lady was unloading the pups into her car. I went out and asked what she was doing and she began to rant and rave about them being abused and forced into a cage. I politely tried to reason with the woman while her husband/man stood eyes down embarrassed. Then a cop pulls up to get Breakfast. He advised her to put them back before he had to get officially involved. Her husband helped me out them back while she laid prone in the parking lot and screamed and cried. She worked in the local humane society she said. It was insane.
Good lord!
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  #73  
Old 01/12/17, 02:16 AM
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I'm a solo rescuer. I'm a a solo rescuer, because over the years, I've tried to become involved in various rescue organizations based in the area where I grew up. What I saw was a boatload of crazy. No--I'm not being judgy. I'm telling you what I honestly saw. I met people who were way more concerned with Being in Control than with what was truly best for the animals.

One organization turned me down as a volunteer, because I refused to travel an hour away to one of their events so they could observe me handling a dog on a leash. Mind you: 1) I'm a life-long dog owner. I've even done my own training in the past and 2) the person who managed to say this to me with a straight face did so while I was at work...at a kennel...THAT WAS HOUSING SOME OF THEIR DOGS. They said it WHILE I WAS WALKING ONE OF SAID DOGS.

My experience is that there are a LOT of people in animal rescue and other care industry jobs who should not be, because they want to be in charge and are not so much interested in the welfare of their animals/patients/clients.

Then, there are the inter-group politics: Oh. We couldn't POSSIBLY adopt to YOU, because we know you are friends with Person We Don't Like.

There are a LOT of really good rescues out there. Sure. They want to know that the animal will be safe and well cared for and will not come back to them. Animals get harder to adopt the more times they bounce back. Not having a stable environment (ie, being adopted and brought back again and again) takes an emotional toll, so they end up being less adoptable as time goes on. They probably also are concerned with liability (having never worked for a group, I can't say for sure, but it would make sense.) If they adopt to someone who can't handle the animal and it bites or scratches a family member, particularly a child, well, some people would hold the rescue responsible. They also just plain want to be sure the animal won't be mistreated or neglected.

Now, for me, an in-depth interview would suffice, along with a written agreement that says that the animal comes back to me if it doesn't work out. ...But people are just crazy.

I just do my thing. If an animal comes along that I can help, I take them in, clean them up, get them vetted, and put the word out. I spend a lot of time talking with potential adopters. I go by feel/chemistry. If I get a bad feeling (like, a SCARY-BAD feeling,) I decline. If I get honest, stratightforward answers and feel OK about things, I move forward.

I'm not rescuing right now, because we have a house full: 8 cats, 2 dogs. My partner loves animals as much as I do, but he doesn't want to take on any more, even just temporarily. I've made it clear, though, that if I come across an animal in crisis, I WILL help it. How can I not?

Anyhow, please don't write rescues off wholesale. Do what you need to do to secure the dog you want, but always, ALWAYS consider adopting, even if you have to travel a little.

Side note about holding onto a good vet like gold: That's just what I've done. My vet is back in MD, a little over an hour away. I take my 7 cats there, two at a time, as needed. The other cat and the dogs were my mom's, and I use their vet here in town. I don't care for them that much, so once the cat and dogs are gone, I will probably take future pets back to the one in MD. That office is AWESOME, and they are one of the cheaper vets in the area.

I apologize if I've been rambly. It's 2:15am here. (I have sleep issues.)

Good luck.
Jen M, WV
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  #74  
Old 01/12/17, 12:58 PM
 
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Thanks, Jen. I'm still reaching out. I'm willing to drive whole states away and I have people willing to make that trip with me, so that's not a problem. I drove 5 hours one way for my husky because I liked the breeder and the price was good. (Rescues fell through there, too. I wanted a puppy and the rescues said they maybe had puppies once a year... But that's reasonable because we're talking purebred large breed puppies ending up in a rescue. Not all that common.) But it's going poorly.


Incidentally, if people are wondering we have two clinics in my city that do low cost fixing of animals. It costs a whopping $175 for a 60lb adult dog to get fixed, male cats are $25. My family has has 7 animals fixed there including 3 female dogs and 4 cats. Most major cities have a clinic like that. All they do, day in and day out, is spay and neuter pets so they're very good at it....

Since I've found purebred shepherds (or working line mixed breeds with lineage) on CL for $300 with deworming and first shots (sometimes even MDR1 testing!). I could purchase a purebred puppy, get the puppy fixed regardless of gender, and get 3 rounds of shots from our local petstore clinic ($20-$50 a round) for less than $600. So a rescue had better run less than I could get a fully vetted deliberately bred dog with healthy lineage for... I mean, good grief!
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  #75  
Old 01/17/17, 10:14 PM
 
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Don't feel bad! I have had Dachshunds for almost 40yrs.. We have a farm , people throw out animals ..not one but multiples at a time. At our peak we had 14dogs all sizes and ages and 3 cats. My vet kept saying " you need one more, so we will be tied" .. I did not have a public job. All our kids were grown and on their own.. when my old Doxie died,I decided I would do the rescue! Chose the dog, sent in all the forms and never heard back. After two months, I contacted them... I was told,I was a horder...at the time we only had two dogs... vet and friends gave great reviews... So I was disappointed, sad. Then I contacted another rescue.quailifed asap, got two Dachshunds and she said she had one reference say "if there was reincarnation they wanted to return as my dog!!!
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  #76  
Old 01/19/17, 09:24 PM
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animal professionals are arsehols for the same 3 reasons all professionals in any profession are. 1. some are just conartest. 2. a very uncomfortable number have no flipping clue what they are talking about but think they are professionals. and finally #3 actual professionals, group 3 has to deal with group 1 and 2 as well as whatever hair brain standard, regulation, or completely unfounded belief the general public has come up with that week
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Last edited by Lady89; 01/19/17 at 09:28 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #77  
Old 01/21/17, 11:24 AM
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Lucky for me I am just a regular guy with regular dogs that loves to spend time on farms ...... Im not a expert or a professional


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animal professionals are arsehols for the same 3 reasons all professionals in any profession are. 1. some are just conartest. 2. a very uncomfortable number have no flipping clue what they are talking about but think they are professionals. and finally #3 actual professionals, group 3 has to deal with group 1 and 2 as well as whatever hair brain standard, regulation, or completely unfounded belief the general public has come up with that week
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  #78  
Old 02/03/17, 08:53 PM
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Why are animal "professionals" so snooty!? - Working and Companion Animals

I am not a professional I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn. I have only been raising sheep since 2003 Cows before that another story.

Dogs fill a funny place in our society. When my Border Collie died of old age at 16 I was left with two thoughts I can do this without a dog and I need a dog for me not the sheep. I called a rescue in a town 60 miles from the ranch. We agreed to have them bring out two dogs and they would watch them work. (An inspection by any other name is an inspection). It was raining and when I put a 20 lead on the first dog and started into the lambing pen the woman yelled don't the dog will get muddy. This didn't work out as you can imagine.

We have a county run shelter that makes a run every wednesday to the local land fill I will leave that to your imagination. I brought in 160 pounds of dog food in 40 pound bags and donated it and explained what I am looking for. Nothing worked out. they put me in touch with a rotweiler(sp) rescue because they often got working dogs. I made many trips to their facility 220 miles one way and ended up with these two dogs above. A Kelpie mix and a Heeler. They are working sheep and learning ranch life. They have gone from hyper dogs to hard workers and a part of the family.

I see life through a different lense than many here so take this as a personal experience not a recommendation I have a full time job taking care of me and some would say I don't do that particularly well.
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  #79  
Old 02/04/17, 11:52 PM
 
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I'm going to be honest and say I've not seen many Aussies that would work great as a herding dog...most of them can't herd their way out of a paper bag and that's true. Most of the herding dogs I've seen out there that will work is the border collie, kelpie, Old English sheepdog, catahoula, blackmouth cur.....etc...you don't see Aussies at herding competitions for a reason. The herding instinct has been bred out of them in exchange for the long hair that tangles easily and they still retain their high energy behavior. What really gets my goat is the people breeding the so-called mini Aussies! They're not 100% Aussie...some breeder had a breeding accident between a Pomeranian and an Aussie and the end result was so cute that the breeder kept on doing it until the dogs gradually became smaller and smaller.
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  #80  
Old 02/05/17, 02:06 AM
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I don't get it...

I run a wee little hobby-size farm (about a quarter acre) in a suburb. I have two dogs and rabbits and chickens. I have a 6' fenced in back yard, no kids, no cats, I work from home. My current dogs are healthy and well behaved. They do agility, chase off hawks and coons faster than I can, and occasionally pull some carts for me so they're in great shape, but otherwise just snuggle with me. We feed a premium grain-free dog food and have tons of dog experience. I'm looking to move out to a bigger plot of land in the next couple years (we're actively making plans) and invest in a few head of larger livestock. A few sheep, maybe some goats, small pigs or a pair of cows... And I was hoping to get a dog to help me work them. I thought an Aussie would be a good fit as they're not quite as work-heavy as a border collie. Whenever you watch a video about Aussies or Border Collies, they come with a warning tag about how sometimes their herding instinct is too much for a normal home to handle and can cause them to herd cats or kids. Which to me means that a wee lil hobby farm should be perfect.

So I started reaching out to rescues. I even included a link to the sheep dog trainer who is local who I was going to work with. And while some have gotten back to me, I've gotten a lot of "no"s. Some people have said they wouldn't adopt to me BECAUSE I run a farm. Aren't these dogs supposedly being abandoned because they're too much for people WITHOUT farms to handle? What? It makes no sense!

Then a vets office in our area who had one vet kill a puppy we owned through absolute negligence and another vet tried to scam us out of $100's to treat rabbit ear canker with "prescription" Ivermectin in rabbit-size doses. So we told them heck no, left bad reviews about the vet online and started going to shots clinics for a little while while we transitioned. Well that was years ago, the practice got sold and has all new staff (including only brand new vets), so we called them to see if they'd do a checkup on our dogs. Turns out there's an inherited "ban" list, and we're on it and the vets wouldn't even consider seeing us. Asked if they'd listen to our side of the story but they wouldn't let us talk to the vets. This was AFTER saying they would and scheduling our appointment of course. (It's like, you know, I can keep leaving bad reviews for that location my whole life long.... And so can anyone else they ---- off. It's not like it's difficult.)

I'm just feeling a lot of "pet" frustration right now. I love my animals and care for them, but more and more I am starting to resent the rescue workers, the vets, the "raw feeding" soccer moms and vet techs and trainers, the toy sellers and the treat bakers and all the "suburban" animal people. And I was born, raised in and live in a suburb! I mean, a lot of good science and training and products and services DO come out of these people. But for every reasonable being, there's one that is just a snooty pile of poop who seems to be super high on themselves and will dismiss you out of hand.

Just... UGH! I'm so annoyed.

We took our dog to a different vet, obviously. And I'm considering a breeder for an Aussie. But I wanted to give the new vet people a chance to not be arseholes because new people, and they were arses to me instead... And I would really like to rescue a dog because I have no use for an unfixed, papered, purebred dog that's 5X's the price of a rescue dog that needs a home because it's got a lot of energy and herding instincts that I can harness.

It's just very frustrating trying to be a decent person in the suburban pet world sometimes.
I think what you are dealing with is more a "liability" issue for the groups as well as those who believe all dogs belong in the house on the couch 24/7. I know when I started my search for LGDs most groups wouldn't adopt to a working home unless the specific dog came from a working home because they can't guarantee the dogs ability . I ended up finding quality breeders for my working GPs.

That said there are groups out there who aren't "crazy." I have dealt with some of those but I also deal with my local rescue groups that I foster thru. I see the crazies in working with them but they CAN be great groups to work with if you can look past some of the drama. ln regards to adoption fees. 200-250 isn't that high, get a dog spayed/neutered, then add in shots,a fecal, HW pills (if needed for your area) and a microchip. Heck that is a minimum. Others have HW that is a 400ish treatment depending on size or mange etc.... The greater sized dog the higher the costs go for spaying, HW treatment etc. Most adoption fees are also based on demand for breeds etc if you are finding higher costs that appear breed specific. I don't know of or have ever even heard of a rescue that is pulling in "bank" on their dogs. For every one dog that *might* make a profit on a rescue dog, they've had 10 that cost them 3x their adoption fee. Meanwhile, puppy mills in shacks with dead dogs charge 4x the "rehoming" fees and people gobble them up.

Edited to add...I am a licensed foster through the state and I do have intact working dogs/outside herding dog. Many of us rescuers really do have a "real" idea of life with dogs.
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