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Working and Companion Animals From Kittens to Homestead hounds, bring your dog and cat questions here!


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  #41  
Old 12/16/16, 12:16 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Ah, I understand now. You're talking about herding style. That's a good point. Aussies are pushier and use more force as opposed to just intimidation. That makes sense. Would a BC still be able to push a couple cows around if they need to?

In any case, the point is you're telling me to buy a dog, not rescue when there are dogs in rescues who supposedly need good homes. :P I'd like to give a dog who needs a home a good home. Not much I can do if I get turned down by rescues, though.
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  #42  
Old 12/16/16, 12:54 PM
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Tell all your doggy friends that you do agility/whatever what you're looking for and let word get around. You could likely find a good dog that way that just doesn't fullfill what the current owner needs.

By the way, my Chica (BC) was bred by farmers who had a large hog farm. They used the dogs to move the hogs, so the dogs had to be pushy, quick, and very agile. Just a different type of herding than sheep, ducks, or cattle.

Mon
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  #43  
Old 12/16/16, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
In any case, the point is you're telling me to buy a dog, not rescue when there are dogs in rescues who supposedly need good homes. :P I'd like to give a dog who needs a home a good home. Not much I can do if I get turned down by rescues, though.
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Originally Posted by Maura View Post
You could contact vet offices. Far and wide, especially ones in rural areas where this breed would be more prevalent and are familiar with farm dogs. They sometimes are aware of this litter or that dog, or have a dog dropped off/left behind. A dog unhappy in an apartment with a ten minute walk in the evening may do great on a small piece of acreage.

You could still look at rescues. Try a breed of the right size, look on Petfinder, and you might find an Aussie mix. I’m in Boston terrier rescue, and we sometimes get a Boston X chihuahua, or Boston x pug. Visit animal shelters. They sometimes don’t know what a breed or mix is and will have collie shepherds that are really not that mix at all. You might find a purebred Aussie or an Aussie mix that has been mislabeled. If you are concerned that an Aussie rescue might think your operation is too small, you probably won’t have that problem with a mix or misidentified dog.

Another option are sheep shearers. They may have Aussies, or know someone who does. A shearer goes all over the state or even the region and is bound to run across herding dogs or know someone who is planning a litter or wants to rehome a dog.
She mentioned several options other than buying from a breeder.
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  #44  
Old 12/16/16, 02:38 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Good to know, frog. Thanks. Lol, since I am suburbia of a major city, most of the people I know who do agility etc. think I am not a very good animal owner, exclusively because of my rabbits and chickens. But the animal friends I have who don't think that have their feelers out.

Just checked out some BC rescues in my area. They all want a non refundable fee just to submit an application whether or not they approve you. :P
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  #45  
Old 12/16/16, 02:42 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
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Kate, you're beating a dead horse. :T And some of the things you highlighted are literally buy a dog from someone.

"They sometimes are aware of this litter"
"A shearer goes all over the state or even the region and is bound to run across herding dogs or know someone who is planning a litter"

Also, Petfinder = rescues, local shelter = discussed already as having none (and also kind of a rescue).

I've been looking on CL and the papers, bulletin boards, had feels out and such. I'm not a dingus. Seems like not a lot of people looking to rehome their BCs or aussies in my immediate area.
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  #46  
Old 12/16/16, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
Kate, you're beating a dead horse. :T And some of the things you highlighted are literally buy a dog from someone.
It sure seemed you missed some of Maura's suggestions, since you said the only option she gave you was buying a dog.
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  #47  
Old 12/16/16, 03:22 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Oregon
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Sorry, OP. Some of the rescues seem more like animal collectors. They seem to think that no one can take as good of care as they can, so they won't let the dogs go to new homes.

I got a free Australian Shepherd off of Craigslist. He's the farm and ranch type with a hard coat, a hard head, and he is hard-charging high energy. He should have never been placed as a family pet and that family could not stand him a moment longer.

I no longer have a farm, so Wyatt came home to be a house dog. He has been hard work, but we love him and he wants to be a house dog, so we have managed to work it out. Working dogs do not have to work livestock. They will do any work that you can explain to them and they will be happy to do it.

I have a serious suggestion for you. If you want a dog to work your livestock, even a little bit, don't get an adult from rescue. Go to a ranch and take a pup from a planned litter with working parents. The reason is that stock dogs do not like to unlearn what they have already learned. That was the biggest problem with Wyatt. He had been started wrong, raised wrong, learned wrong things and he was unwilling to give that up and learn to do things my way.

You have to consider the safety of your small animals. If is easy to train a young pup to leave the chickens alone. It is something different to bring in an adult dog who is already a stock killer (and they won't tell you that when they are trying to rehome him) and to try to keep the little livestock safe while you try to retrain the dog. Stock killing is difficult to break.

In my area one of the humane societies always has cattle dog cross pups available. Those would work well for you. Also, many times one of the ranchers will have a planned litter with proven working dogs.

I notice that the "work" done by many cattle dogs and Ausies is to ride around in the pickup truck and go everywhere with their owner. Those are trained dogs with good manners that are happy to spend their time "going with". They might work cattle, they might not. If they don't work livestock, they are still happy dogs to do their job of accompanying.
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  #48  
Old 12/16/16, 04:18 PM
 
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Oregon, thanks for a very thoughtful post. I worry that a professionally bred stock dog might be too much for my needs. While I intend to continue to expand over the next decade, I don't expect it will be possible for me to expand so much that I will be moving more than five head of cows, or a dozen sheep.

I have been stating on all my rescue applications that I would prefer a young dog (under one year) so I could socialize them to stock animals properly, but was open to age because I would seriously consider an adult if they were the right dog. I genuinely believe that most rescues would tell you if the dog were a known stock killer, as they do test them against cats and children... But they probably just don't know if the dog kills animals.
I am familiar with stock killing dogs. My husky killed four rabbits and six chickens in three years... Which is a lot for my tiny operation. And that's not including the wild animals and the stray cat she brutally murdered this summer... I finally have her trained not to go after the livestock, though. But it sure was a struggle for about 18 months and sometimes she still wants to give chase. But I watch her, and she doesn't touch the birds or buns any more. This summer she barreled straight through some temporary fencing, right through the entire flock of chickens without touching a single one, all to attack a marauding groundhog that she flushed from my garden. She knows what she's allowed to chase now.

So definitely familiar with that. And I agree, younger is better. I'd love to have a dog willing to "go with", but I also love working with and interacting with my dogs. I love putting them to a task and watching them do it. I'm looking forward to pursuing dog number 3 with a fervor.
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  #49  
Old 12/16/16, 04:53 PM
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I love when the unhelpful annoying posts are already blocked or ignored .... I get to see responses to things I never wanted to read and I am far happier for it ..... The secret to success is life is learning how to use a social media and forum block buttons and have a trigger happy finger in response to BS

BTW just for giggles , I am a sheep shearer

I am sure that you will find the dog you are looking for, I am quite sorry that you have to deal with BS. I have felt the frustration many times and now pretty much only work with private individuals although I do have a couple contacts in Jack Russel Rescues that contact me when they have dogs that are not suitable for any other situation.
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  #50  
Old 12/16/16, 10:21 PM
 
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Well, Jreed, if you're ever over in the great lakes area, let me know. XD I think I'd trust your thoughts on working dogs. Your pack is amazing.

There's an AussiexCorgi cross I'm considering on petfinder. :O She's one state away but nine weeks old. Corgis are technically a herding breed.... They were originally cattle dogs. Herding videos of them seem a little disorganized and rambunctious (lots of running in circles barking) but they all look like "in training" videos, not "been doing this for 1 year or more" videos.
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  #51  
Old 12/17/16, 12:07 AM
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OMG! Baby Corgi's are the cutest thing EVER! I had a dog that I showed in breed and at one show I let him play with a young Corgi that another handler had there. My dog was RUINED! If there was a Corgi anywhere near the ring, he was VERY difficult to show, he wanted to play with the Corgi!

I have seen Corgi's herd sheep and they can do a much more than adequate job of it!

Mon
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  #52  
Old 12/17/16, 01:22 AM
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By the way, if you haven't checked out hoobly.com, that seems to be where a lot of rescues and puppies are listed these days. Maybe everybody else knows that and I've been under a rock, but I stumbled across it a couple weeks ago. Had no idea.
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  #53  
Old 12/17/16, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MDKatie View Post
It sure seemed you missed some of Maura's suggestions, since you said the only option she gave you was buying a dog.
Every suggestion offered ended in buying a dog. from this or that source.
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  #54  
Old 12/17/16, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mnn2501 View Post
Every suggestion offered ended in buying a dog. from this or that source.
Please go back and read the bolded quote I posted.
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  #55  
Old 12/17/16, 04:50 PM
 
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Nono, Mnn, Kate was right.

She ALSO suggested rescuing a dog from this or that source. Very productive when people won't rescue to you.

Wiscto, unfortunately Hoobly is a VERY bad place to look for a dog (though it's ok for some other animals, like rabbits). Most of the listings are scams. I tried when I was looking for a husky a few years back. The number of people who said their mom had died and wouldn't I wire them the money so they could ship the puppy she had just gotten last week to me was overwhelming. I hears six variations on that same story in one day. Hoobly for dogs? Never again. Bleh. Even newspaper classifieds are more reliable.... :T

Frog, I believe I will consider applying for the dog. Their application is base and poorly written (with questions like; "Pick one, if you were moving, what would you do with the dog? Let it go outside? Leave it on a farm? Give it to a kill shelter? Have it put down? Or never mover where you couldn't bring your dog?"... Gee, I wonder what the right answer could POSSIBLY be?) but otherwise looks reasonable.

The worst that happens is nothing happens.
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  #56  
Old 12/17/16, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
It's just very frustrating trying to be a decent person in the suburban pet world sometimes.
I get what you are saying, but a lot depends on what you are looking for. My vet has the personality of the Grim Reaper, but he is a really great surgeon. Before him we tried out a few different places. One lady practically fileted a beagle fixing her, one acted like if you feed your pet anything other than the pet food they sell in their office, you are abusing it. One lady is really good but too far a drive. She donates a lot of time to injured wildlife and looking for homes for old pets or treating them for poor people. The other place is buddy buddy with the humane society and charges a fortune--I am not sure who is scratching whose back there.
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  #57  
Old 12/18/16, 11:47 AM
 
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Omg, they are asking $650 for this mixed breed puppy. Mind you, the dog is fixed and microchipped... But we have a local shelter that charges $66 for their fixed, utd on shots dogs. For $650 I could literally purchase an AKC registered working dog from a breeder and have it come with it's first round of shots, great lineage, and a health certificate.

Thus I think most peoples complaints about rescues.
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  #58  
Old 12/18/16, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ChocolateMouse View Post
Omg, they are asking $650 for this mixed breed puppy. Mind you, the dog is fixed and microchipped... But we have a local shelter that charges $66 for their fixed, utd on shots dogs. For $650 I could literally purchase an AKC registered working dog from a breeder and have it come with it's first round of shots, great lineage, and a health certificate.

Thus I think most peoples complaints about rescues.
They are out to make money as they get a discount from the vet for anything that was done to the dog, and the reputable breeders does not
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  #59  
Old 12/18/16, 05:47 PM
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They are out to make money as they get a discount from the vet for anything that was done to the dog, and the reputable breeders does not
Jeeze no kidding. 600 is around the price range of a spay around here. I always assumed 200-400 dollars is okay for a no-kill rescue, even if they get a lot of donations, in part because some of the dogs basically get held onto indefinitely and that can add up. But if they're getting a big enough discount on vet bills and food, plus donations, $650 would probably turn quite a dang profit, especially if they're a high-turnover kind of shelter.

I'd love to see the shelter laws in each state someday, I'm just too lazy to look it up. Kind of seems like there should be some better laws in place...but then I guess half the shelters would shut down.
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  #60  
Old 12/18/16, 07:20 PM
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Rescues sometimes get healthy dogs that don't cost them much (maybe a few vaccines, maybe just heartworm meds, etc). Sometimes they get dogs that are in terrible shape, and need surgery, rehabilitation, spaying/neutering/ etc. The money they "profit" off of the healthy dogs goes to pay for those dogs who cost them hundreds in vet bills.

And not all rescues get much in the way of discounts from vets. Sometimes they'll get a little discount, but it's not half price or anything.

My parents ran a greyhound rescue for years when I was younger. They would get dogs off the track and adopt them out as pets. The fee for adopting one was $350, and that covered transportation (they had to get dogs from NH and FL most times, and tracks aren't going to lose money transporting dogs), heartworm meds, flea/tick meds, and a starter kit with a muzzle, leash, collar, and brush or something. There's probably more that I'm forgetting.

Some of you hear $350 for adoption and think it's outrageous. Really it barely covered their costs.

*Some* rescues charge pretty high prices, and I don't always think they're reasonable. Most charge reasonable prices. I agree that $650 sounds high, and the only time I've seen a rescue charge that high of a fee is when they're adopting out highly-sought after lap dogs...I always felt they were charging more b/c more people wanted those floofy dogs.
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