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  #21  
Old 12/14/16, 07:22 PM
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I think an Aussie, a ranch dog, would not serve your needs. Since yours would still be a hobby farm, you can train your animals. A little bit of grain or a piece of carrot goes a long way in getting sheep, pigs, or cattle to come when called. You can teach them to hand signals as well to go left or right or stop. I think another dog like the one you have might work well for you as a good farm dog.
This paragraph of your post is not YOUR call. You have no idea of how much time a person will spend with a dog.
At first glance, there's no way my wife and I should have a high energy Catahoula. But since we spend a couple hours a day tiring her out (dog park, walks, back-yard games, etc) and the occasional day at doggie day care - it works out fine, plus it gets us out and moving.
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  #22  
Old 12/14/16, 11:57 PM
 
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The OP asked for opinions, I gave mine. I am not out of line. The OP can sort out which replies might pertain to their future situation. From what was written in the original post, they can probably pull off training the livestock to their situation and getting a dog that will protect the livestock and farm, like their current dog.
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  #23  
Old 12/15/16, 09:59 AM
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When you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maura View Post
I’m in rescue.
And then you tell a person that a dog
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Originally Posted by Maura View Post
would not serve your needs.
You're going to get push back from people who have seen busybody "rescue groups" that do not have the dogs welfare in mind, just their own "ideals"
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  #24  
Old 12/15/16, 10:16 AM
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There are NO Border Collies in the shelters here, rescue gets to them first.

When my daughter wanted a Border Collie for her farm, I went to a monthly farm sale. Lot of BC's for sale there, all sizes and shapes. Talked to the people who'd brought them to sell. Finally bought a BC that had been intentionally bred to work on a hog operation, parents were both working dogs, and this dog was NOT the best in the litter (or even second best), didn't have the drive to herd they wanted & needed. I thought she was perfect!

She WILL herd, but doesn't go bat-flip crazy over it, has an "off" button and settles nicely, wants VERY much to please, and is easy to train.

You might check out one of those local farm sales (here they're usually at county fairgounds once a month), but be sure to get there early...by 10 am they'll be packing up to go home.

Mon
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  #25  
Old 12/15/16, 11:00 AM
 
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So, two other posters wrote that an Aussie probably would not serve the needs of the OP. Nothing to say about them? Is it not their call? Do they not know how much time will be spent with the dog? Or is it because they don’t take in dogs that aren’t housebroken and have had no training and do the work to prep the dog for a normal home?
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  #26  
Old 12/15/16, 11:37 AM
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I don't come onto this sub-forum much but felt compelled by chocolatemouses' story.

My first thought to the OP was "Preach on!". I grew up in suburbia, worked in vet offices/kennels/non-profit clinics for 10 years before leaving that industry, and now have a 12 acre hobby farm.

The "pet people" are...how do I say this nicely...out of their f-ing minds (the language is needed in this case).

There's so much to comment on it's hard to start. But I agree with everything you're feeling.

Vet's are pompous ass' that don't have a clue. I've worked with many many, even went to undergrad to be one, have friends that became them. They're all the same. You find one you like, hold onto them like gold.

The rescue groups are the same way. Vilifying every farmer type person/situation because it's not their idealized pet home. All the while completely ignoring the true needs of the breeds/animals they have in front of them and the good homes they have access to. I realize there are a lot of unfortunate animals in some very bad situations. But acting holy-er than thou because you're affiliated with a "rescue" is beyond ridiculous. I will never allow some person to come to my house to evaluate my lifestyle and decide whether or not I'm a good enough person to own an already unwanted animal.

My girlfriend and I would love to get a greyhound ourselves, but you're off your rocker if you think I'm gonna put up with their scrutiny to take a rescue dog.

Which brings me to my last abbreviated point. All you people sitting here telling the OP that an aussie isn't right for her, are showing your true colors and missing the point ENTIRELY. And that is, that you have no right what-so-ever to tell someone else what will or wont work for their situation. That is for them to decide. The mere insinuation that you know better than they do, and are some privileged soul that can alone, handle the breed/animal in question. Makes my freakin...blood...BOIL.

Which is why in my girlfriend and I's case. We love to support good ethical breeders. Because you know what, it's not caring breeders that are causing the unwanted animal crisis in this country. I still attest (and I've said this before on HT) that if we all purchased only from scrupulous breeders. We wouldn't need the ASPCA and every other rescue group out there. In my admittedly cavalier opinion. The large scale support of the "pet agenda" (adoption, spay/neuter, "urbanized" animal welfare criteria, etc) is CAUSING the problems that we see. If we all accepted the fact that animals are not people, and could live happy healthy lives being treated as such. They and us, would be much better off.
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  #27  
Old 12/15/16, 11:46 AM
 
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Maura, I sure can train my animals. Of course I can manage them all on my own or I wouldn't even have them. But here's the deal.

I am getting a third dog. The end.

Now where would you like me to get that dog from?

Because what you just wrote, you just told me to go buy from a breeder. Which I will probably do.

Hence the problem... It's hard to support rescues when they don't seem terribly eager to give dogs new homes and push people towards buying from breeders instead. Seems counter productive to the "Don't buy, rescue" message.

The way I see it... Worst case scenario; If I get an Aussie from a breeder and I can't handle it... +1 net dogs in rescues. If I get one from a rescue and can't handle it, I'm basically just a underglorified temporary foster home. :P +0 net dogs in rescue. It's not like I'm going to make it worse. Some people might... They might starve or abuse the dog or not train it. But I've got two great, healthy, trained dogs of my own to prove I'm not that bad of a person and a trainer lined up.

So, Maura. I am getting a third dog. I feel like an Aussie will be a good fit, and I am confident enough in my ability to handle an aussie to dump a lot of money into it. No exceptions. Where should I get my dog from?
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  #28  
Old 12/15/16, 12:24 PM
 
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Frogmammy, we have a similar situation. We're actually right on top of a city. We live in suburbia right now. None of our shelters have anything but all american mutts and pit mixes in them. And while I love pits/pit mixes (recently fostered a stray one, and then gave it to my sister, great dog) I have no desire to own one... Right now. :P Most of the dogs are toy mixes (too small) or hunting dog mixes. Labs, hounds, beagles, whathave you. Great dogs, not exactly what I'm looking for.
A farm sale might be a good idea. I have been meaning to check those out anyhow. Maybe this gives me a stronger reason to make the drive.

Gj, there's certainly a fine line between "consider this carefully, it might not work out well, I've seen it happen" and "Psh, no. You can't handle that. Silly child.".
Certainly, lot of people know more about herding dogs than me. But I can take their advice into account and know from experience that an Aussie would still be a good fit if I take care to know what I am getting.
But when someone tells you not to bother at all is when I get annoyed.

Like, I raise rabbits. I've been working with rabbits for nearly a decade. People ask me a lot if they should do a colony setup. I have had poor experiences with colonies, so I always tell them "You can, but I would not. Here's a lot of reasons why it could go wrong". And if they feel like they can mitigate those issues, great, build a rabbit colony.

So I'm not too annoyed when people say "You want an Aussie? That may not be wise. Your farm could be too small to work a high-energy animal, or to give enough work to a really high drive animal". Because of course the answer is "If they are an extremely high drive animal I don't want them (there are plenty of aussies with a lower drives, especially in resuces), and if they just need more exercise than my farm work alone can offer, I have two other high energy dogs I care for just fine without farm work. Of course I can manage that too."

But if someone glances at my situation and says "Never get an aussie. Just do something else. You couldn't possibly handle it.". That's where the problem lies. They've just crossed from "This COULD go wrong, you know?" (advice, which is just a warning to plan carefully and can be worked around even if it's a quite large problem) to "You will screw up.".

Which I know rescues have to decide "This person will screw up" so they don't send their dogs to abusive homes. But they sure do seem to pick arbitrary things to base that off of. :P
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Last edited by ChocolateMouse; 12/15/16 at 01:40 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12/15/16, 12:54 PM
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These rescue people, as I said before, are borderline animal rights activists. They create the environment for backyard breeders to crank out unsound animals that end up in shelters, by vilifying professional breeders and over scrutinizing potential adoptive homes. This serves to perpetuate the need for their services. Time was, that a breeder would buy back or replace an animal that didn't work out, because it had value. A competent breeder is always going to know best the traits of his or her animals, the faults and weaknesses, and be able to match those animals with the owner they belong with. But the rescue people have harassed breeders to the point they almost have to operate under the radar. Very hard for a breeder to operate in a manner that promotes and perpetuates a breed now. This is the goal of the hardcore animal rights extremists, to eliminate breeds and eventually pet ownership all together. Many of the rescue people are useful tools to this complete this task.
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  #30  
Old 12/15/16, 01:04 PM
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When I was looking for a dog all I could find in this area was the same as you...pits, pit mixes, and small dogs in the shelters. I hate ankle biters, LOVE the herding breeds (although I'm not certain about the Sheltie), their thought processes and problem solving ability. I did NOT want to show a dog or do obedience, so most of the breeders I knew were out. Finally found a pup from a back yard breeder with a good reputation. He's not "perfect" (front is WAY too straight!), but he's perfect for me, does just what I want. Mostly....

Mon
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  #31  
Old 12/15/16, 01:23 PM
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Just FYI not that I actually know where you are located but there is a 1 year old aussie available on one of my local boards for $75 the dog is in a 3 dog home with a child and has to much energy for the owner.
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  #32  
Old 12/15/16, 01:41 PM
 
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Jreed, that's exactly what I'm looking for! XD Unfortunately I am on the other side of the country in the great lakes region.

Not in so much of a hurry that I can't wait for something similar to show up here.
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  #33  
Old 12/15/16, 01:54 PM
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Barnbilder, that is one of the most accurately said statements I've read in a long time. Could not agree more.

If only more people understood that the do-gooders are so often the ones doing the most harm.
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  #34  
Old 12/15/16, 03:12 PM
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Ugh. You cannot paint every rescue group with the same brush. Are some over the top? Of course. Are most of them doing the best they can for the dogs while at the same time being realistic? YES. If you find one you don't like, try another.

Why are some of them snooty? Because they've had to rescue dogs being treated horribly. They have had to take in dogs that became inconvenient for the owners (oh, you didn't realize your lab would be high energy? Or you didn't realize that there are houses to rent that allow pets?). I'm sure they get so irritated dealing with ignorant jerks all day who can't shell out a few bucks to take proper care of their animal. They deal with the WORST of pet owners most times, which is how they get the animals in the first place. It's not stellar pet owners (usually) who are giving up these animals.

Get over it. Really. If you don't want someone to do a home inspection (which really is to make sure the home is DECENT (not perfect) and there are no dogs chained outside or living in squalor), then BUY a dog somewhere.

If you have a problem with the groups wanting $200 for a dog, oh well. Do you know how much it costs to spay and neuter a dog? Or to give ALL vaccines, heartworm meds, etc? It's not cheap. You can get a "free" dog and rack up more than that in the first vet visit.

And you know what the best thing is? If you don't want to get a dog from a rescue, you don't have to! You are free to get whatever dog you want from whatever breeder you want. You can find a responsible breeder, or you can find some jerkface breeding subpar dogs who doesn't give a rat's behind WHO buys their "puppys."

So, you can either go ahead and lump ALL rescue groups together and say they're doing HARM (HAHAHA!) or you can realize that there are some that do a fabulous job of rehoming animals who have come from crappy situations from crappy pet owners. It's their choice to do their best to make sure the dog fits with the new owner, to avoid the dog being given up again.
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  #35  
Old 12/15/16, 03:22 PM
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Oh, and plenty of breeders have questions for prospective buyers, too. IMHO, any breeder who wouldn't at least ask for a vet reference for a buyer is a crappy breeder. I know of a breeder who wouldn't sell a dog (small breed) to anyone with big dogs in the house. On the other hand, some view dogs as commodities...who cares who buys it, as long as they have the money.

This is why people have the option to look around and get a dog from whichever place they feel is best for them.
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  #36  
Old 12/15/16, 04:18 PM
 
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Where should you get your dog from? Well, you could contact breeders. Let them know your circumstances. In a litter there can be one that is die hard go-go-go right next to one that is relatively calm and might be happy in a smaller environment with a lot less work. This is how I got my border collie. I found a breeder of working dogs, this was when border collies were first being accepted in the show ring. I wanted one that was not going to run down the road and herd the neighbor’s cattle, but had the instinct for my small herd of sheep. He worked out perfectly and would probably work out for you (I am also big on training). But, border collies are not as hard as Aussies as a general rule.

You could contact vet offices. Far and wide, especially ones in rural areas where this breed would be more prevalent and are familiar with farm dogs. They sometimes are aware of this litter or that dog, or have a dog dropped off/left behind. A dog unhappy in an apartment with a ten minute walk in the evening may do great on a small piece of acreage.

You could still look at rescues. Try a breed of the right size, look on Petfinder, and you might find an Aussie mix. I’m in Boston terrier rescue, and we sometimes get a Boston X chihuahua, or Boston x pug. Visit animal shelters. They sometimes don’t know what a breed or mix is and will have collie shepherds that are really not that mix at all. You might find a purebred Aussie or an Aussie mix that has been mislabeled. If you are concerned that an Aussie rescue might think your operation is too small, you probably won’t have that problem with a mix or misidentified dog.

Another option are sheep shearers. They may have Aussies, or know someone who does. A shearer goes all over the state or even the region and is bound to run across herding dogs or know someone who is planning a litter or wants to rehome a dog.
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  #37  
Old 12/15/16, 11:50 PM
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I'm guilty of a couple generalizations in this thread... I know we all have different experiences, but sometimes we all just need to vent. I also don't think anyone's opinion here was out of line. We all have some.

As for rescues... I think they're a great thing on the whole. I wish I knew how to sort out the ones flipping strays for a living and the great ones. I think we mostly have great ones in WI. I don't think $200 is too much for a rescue doing all the work, spaying/neutering, deworming, taking care of any other needs, finding fosters. For most people it's a great deal. They save a dog, follow the vets orders, and never blink. Somebody has to take all those dogs.

For me... I went to craigslist, kept a dog out of the shelter/rescue network, took care of all the backlogged vet stuff they hadn't done, and I have an awesome dog. But even that can be a challenge. There are dog flippers on craigslist. Some people just collect strays and basically sell them. But just be diligent.
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  #38  
Old 12/16/16, 11:17 AM
 
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I don't have any problem with rescues in general. Some of them do fine work. I have problems with rescues turning down what should be a stellar application. Which is what I feel has been happening.

Extremely dog experienced home, money for a proper rehoming fee, two healthy, fixed, active, medium-sized, trained and socialized dogs, UTD on shots, vet records for years, grain-free dog food, 6' fence around the whole (huge) back yard, I do agility with my own dogs, home inspection OK, regular income, someone home most of the day, proof that I move my dogs with me when I move, own my own home outright, dog parks nearby, dog owners as references, training courses lined up, no cats, no kids... On paper, I SHOULD be a great home.

I'm like, what more could you possibly want from a dog home? Oh, right, I own a WHOPPING 12 chickens and 14 rabbits. That's, like, 30 animals! That's animal hoarding right there. :P (lol, they should meet some of the people on here with flocks/herds of 100+) Not to even mention that I breed and eat them!?!?

I actually read this great article someone wrote, telling a story about being at a rescue seminar. They held up a list of commonly asked questions that rescues use and told everyone to put their hands up. A room full of hundreds of rescue workers and vets and vet techs, almost all of whom owned animals. Then they told them to put their hand down if they said no to any of the questions and started reading them off. By the end of the application there were about ten hands still raised in the whole room, but the whole room was full of professional animal caretakers. Almost nobody in the room qualified to have a dog adopted out to them.

If that doesn't say "too strict of standards", nothing does. :T

See, Maura, and therein lies the problem. You, a rescuer, are telling me to go buy a dog from a breeder. That seems a little counter productive to wanting to get animals out of shelters and into homes. And if I have to, I will. But it sure leaves this impression that they're not super eager to get the dogs into new homes. I mean, I keep hearing "Don't breed dogs, rescue a dog, don't buy dogs", so when someone is like "Also, don't rescue. We don't need you." from the rescues it leaves this impression that the situation isn't all that urgent after all.

I mean, it's not like I've been applying for a specific dog. If I was, that would make sense. But I am reaching out to rescues saying "Here is my situation. I do not care about gender or color. I can even probably handle what many people would consider a problem dog and here's proof of it. Will you adopt a dog to me if one shows up who will meet my needs?" and they say "no".

(Also, never heard that border collies are LESS driven than Aussies? Always heard they had waaay more energy and lots of drive, less trainable to a home environment. I have been tentatively reaching out to BC rescues as well, since they also have to potential to be a good fit.)

So I will probably buy a dog. But we'll see. I have time. And yes, this is exclusively a venting thread. :P
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  #39  
Old 12/16/16, 11:32 AM
 
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I just double checked my local shelters, incidentally... I do that once in a while. One local county shelter only had one dog up for adoption in the whole entire shelter. :P

Another only had three dogs that weren't pits. (Now THERE'S a breed that really needs to be rescued, not purchased...) They were all hunting dog mixes (lab, golden, coonhound, etc.).

So maybe it really isn't very urgent at all, in reality, and the breeders are serving a purpose.

I mean, I know how to search petfinder and stuff. Just not much going on there and the rescues I HAVE contacted have turned me down. :P
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  #40  
Old 12/16/16, 12:07 PM
 
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Border collies are real energetic, but tend to be softer than Aussies. BC, sheep; Aussie, cattle. Rough coated collies and shelties softer than either, less energetic.

And in my post I recommended breeders, vets, sheep shearers, shelters.

Myself, I have had one dog from a shelter, three rehomed privately, and one puppy from a breeder.

I really have no problem with going to a breeder. Just make sure they are breeding for form and temperament. I hate to see people taken advantage of.
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