Wow...my heart goes out to you WG.

You took it on the chin today with RNDY, down $1.14, mostly on the dividend cut.

Sorry!!!!!!! I really do feel for you.

What are you going to do? Hold it? Sell it off?

Personally, I think there is more to it than just that. Bad news out of Europe, as well as the fiscal cliff, have hammered the markets.

I think this will give us a buying opportunity, but at the same time, it is like catching a falling knife. Where is the bottom?

You would have to tell me, Clovis! I haven't been looking at my portfolio. I don't want to :sob:

IRBT is breaking my heart right now....I bought at 23 :(

Mon

We've talked about Cramer on this thread. I happen to like the show, mostly because I get a better take and different understanding of the market.

I do not follow Cramer for any buy or sell recommendations. With that said, it will be interesting to see what type of impact he has on TSRO. Cramer made a very strong case for the company on Friday's Mad Money, and placed a buy recommendation on the stock.

On Friday, before the show, TSRO closed at 15.03.

It will be interesting to see how much his pitch will impact the stock price.

Sorry to be such a heartbreak to you!!!!

Please don't shoot the messenger, LOL.

You don't get to be worth a hundred million dollars by trying to help other people make money.
On the other hand, charts never lie.

Well, it looks like Jim Cramer has a following after all.

TSRO closed at 15.99.

This would have made a nice spec play today, if you are able to do that. As for me, a buy and hold for TSRO doesn't show as much value as a stock as LLY does. At least LLY has a decent pipeline, and it pays a good dividend.

Zong,

I'd love to learn more about reading charts. I understand the basic concept, but being able to use it, even on a beginner's level, for what I am buying...I am lost.

I need to learn how to apply chart reading, but where do you start?

FWIW, my investing is primarily for retirement. While I am financially sound, I am behind the eight ball in my retirement savings. I've been focusing on high yielding dividend stocks with a buy and hold mentality.

How can I apply charts to the stocks that I am buying and the investing strategy that I am using?

I know that you are right about using charts for spec plays and day trades. I simply don't have the money to play that way, but I wish that I did.

I'd give my eye teeth to be able to play the market like you do...and have the capital to make it worthwhile. Do you know how much I would like to clip off $300 in profit three times a week? I'd drive a pretty fancy Cadillac down to your place just to thank you personally!!!!!

Is there any way to play the market like you do, but start off small? I'd love to have both the income and growth in my retirement account.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions??? Advice?

I really would like to learn. Those new Caddy CTS-V's in black with black leather really are sharp, and I'd like to be on a first name basis with Bob Poynter's GM World, LOL.

There is more information on the internet about reading charts than you can read in a lifetime. Everything I learned was so long ago, I actually helped discover a lot of the stuff you can find now. A bunch of guys in a chat room, helping each other, and one keeping notes and selling the results. Ah, well.
I've seen catastrophic drops in fairly stable companies so often, I know how to see if a company is worth it's price. And I understand option straddles around known news events. I particularly like credit spreads, for individual stocks, or index proxies. However, my true preference is for index futures. If you keep your stops fairly tight, the end of the world won't even hurt much(financially, that is) Limit your losses, let your gains run. Bad news in any one company won't crash an entire index. And, if it does, the tight stop will protect you. Trading futures, you never have to wake up to find your company had lowered earnings expectations and is gapping down 20 points. Futures are traded both up and down. So, if you follow the charts, you see the changes, and you change directions. Nothing to it. Kind of boring, because when you find your groove, you stick to it and never second guess the signal.
Incidentally, money don't really mean much. It's mostly about being right.

Okay, how much free cash would I need to have to make small trades? What is the minimum?

My round trip costs are $14 on Scottrade.

Would it be possible to pick off $50 or $100 in profits with a small balance?

Oh, I forgot to mention that I have read tons of stuff on the internet about charts. I also had a friend that paid to belong to a chat room where both pump and dump and chart reading was being practiced. While he was doing that kind of gambling, I tuned into whatever I could learn.

My big problem is learning how to apply it in the real world.

With that said, I am in the flea market business. You'd be surprised how many people think that there is something mysterious in the flea market business, and some keep coming to me month after month, in awe, and they keep asking the same questions about getting started. Really, there is nothing to it, just plunk down $85 for rent and put your stuff in the booth, and see how it sells.

I guess I feel like one of those people. I am a little in awe of how you work the market...but I am just too dumb to figure out how to start!!!

I just spent 10 minutes typing only to hit a key with my thumb and close the window!! Anyway, I don't know what different brokerage firms require as a minimum to start an account. I use IB. Margin requirements are $2188 for the S&P mini-future, and you need at least $2000 to be able to trade anything on margin, which all futures are. I'd think you'd want $500 at least as a bumper against bad trades. You'd need to develop your algorithm, stops, etc and trade a simulator account for weeks before trading real money.
On IB, my commissions are 1/2 cent per share for stock, 200 for a dollar with a minimum dollar per trade commission. So, $2.00 per round trip . Options run from a few cents to a dollar per contract. Nasdaq, S&P, and Dow Jones futures are 2.01 commission.

Let's say I had the margin requirements and $2,500 to trade with.

Could I do much good and make much using the $2,500?

My neighbor trades currency on a mini-deal scenario where he can make as much as $100 per mini contract, but his losses are stopped out at $50 or $100. He tries to make two trades a day with the $900 that he uses in that account. It is still very much a wash right now, but he is happy as a lark making $50 a day.

BTW, Zong, I am going to try to catch some sleep. It's been a long day.

Thank you for your help!!!!

Start here if you want to learn charts.
Stock Investment Research & Education - Business & Financial News - IBD - Investors.com

William O'Niel owns the paper and is the author of several books on how to invest and on learning to read charts.
And its tue,,, charts never lie.
GH

Zong, what happened to you?

I've slept twice since you last posted, LOL.

Nonetheless, thank you for your help! I do appreciate it!!!

charts, revisited
 

I wanted to post this chart, current as of right now. This is the same chart as I posted on 10/21, same lines I drew, but the chart is up to date. I added "E" to show the date I posted the original. (post 405 in this thread)

If you go back, read that post, and the few on either side of it, you'll get the context. Anyway, the point is that if you were a chart reader, this chart would actually be what you expected back then, given the criteria stated, breaking support lines, etc. By reading such charts, you can protect yourself from the agony many are feeling from that date until this one. Also, note that in my posts then, I said " Based on the Action when line D broke, notice that it broke and bounced twice before it broke down hard shortly after the first of May. That ended with a 70 point selloff in the S&P before the first decent bounce day. Thar same time period(May 7-June 1) resulted in 890 points selloff in the Dow."

Once again, there was some bouncing around, but once the support line broke, the index has sold off, once again(so far) 70 points. So, a very similar action which was indicated by a very similar chart pattern. That's how they work!! Not really a prediction, but an indication of probable action.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m.../revisited.gif

Okay...

How do you know where to put Lines D and E in the chart?

How will you figure out where the bottom of this market is?

E was the date that I made the original post, with the chart and lines A,B,C, and D. As stated previously, Line D was drawn at the previous high, which was on March 1st. The break of the previous high is always a bad sign. In early April, then, again in May.

As long as you're getting higher highs and higher lows you're in an uptrend. When you not only don't get higher highs, but begin to break previous established highs, your uptrend is breaking. Note that the diagonal, uptrend lines break at about the same time the previous established high breaks, within a day or two. You don't want to be long when the market is no longer going up. At least, on index proxies or futures.
ETA: Oh, and you don't predict a bottom, nor a top. You see when the trend breaks, and the previous lows/highs are violated. I use a severely modified moving average that seems to work good, then throw in a filter that keeps me from entries that have a higher percentage of failure. When everything says "Go" that's when I go.

It seems that if you moved line A against the current down trend, and moved B down to the lowest low point on the chart, wouldn't the two intersecting lines indicate that a bottom has been reached, and a new uptrend may start?

You're getting into predicting, an economically dangerous practice. You never assume that you can predict the future, you observe when it's stopped going up(or down) and follow the direction. Remember, you cannot turn the market unless you have trillions of dollars. You can only wait til it's headed your way, and get on for the ride.
There are "leading indicators" that supposedly indicate when the market "should" turn. However, the market can stay overbought or oversold a lot longer than you can stay liquid. I never, ever fight the trend. You can't just ignore the action. When it stops going down, you'll see it. It could be today, it could be next week. If I were looking to get in long, I wouldn't jump until the direction reverses. Once the current downtrend is broken is the time when I would start going long on any trades that I make.

A nice bump in the market today.

Was anyone able to make a play today?

I'm not really wanting to predict the market. I'm just trying to figure it out.

As dumb as I am, it is going to take me while to understand this, and to learn how I can apply it to my trading, or to learn new styles of trading.

How long have you been doing this, Zong? How and where did you learn?

Again, thanks!!!!!

When the internet got going pretty good, there was a whole world of information available that was not at the Caswell county public library. I got seriously interested in charts around 1998, noticing a pattern we referred to at that time as "breakout pattern" When a stock approached a previous high, it would either stall, or, upon breaking the previous high, get a really nice pop. Then in early 2000, as the markets imploded, it became obvious that people who were "holding and hoping" were being hammered. Thats about the time I learned about stops. And also, to avoid individual stocks, except in a straddle type options play.
Since that time, the markets have become so blatantly manipulated that it's hard to do much of anything. Huge gaps at the open are commonplace. Still, if you watch, you'll see those days where the market goes up, stalls, makes an unmistakable sell signal, then dumps the rest of the day. Or, in reverse, sells, and makes a buy signal.


When you see something like down 200 points one day, and up 200 the next, you can be assured it's all manipulation. There are not average Joe's out there dumping their stock in a panic one day, then reconsidering and buying back the next. It's all manipulation, all the time.

I totally agree. The market is being manipulated.

At the same time, it is nothing new. Just look at the big players during the 1920's. They literally met in person to decide what stocks they were going to pump and dump.

IIRC, the Feds asked them to step back in after the first crash, which was just a few days before the big crash in '29. They obliged, and started buying large quantities of stock, in person, on the floor of the exchange. This buying help build confidence in the markets for a few days...but it was too little...and too late.

Hey, where did everyone go? It seems that so far this year, the bulls are keeping the bears out of the area! The majority of my stocks are up from where they were at the end of 2012.

Currently my ETP is up $4.15 for the year. CVX is up $7.21. One of my down stocks is VZ - down $.54.

So where is everyone at, counting all their profits?!?

Trading ES and adding to investment accounts on the dips.

Buy the dips! This is a bubble that will burst, but get 'em while their hot!!

I'm still here too.

I'm thinking about buying COP for the dividend. Also looking at GSK.

Since it appears that I killed the thread again, I thought I would deliver another blow to it by posting one more time, LOL.

I bought a small position in GSK today. Has a current yield of 5.18% on a dividend of 57 cents.

I had a nice uptick on GSK today, up $1.

Too bad that I couldn't have bought more shares yesterday for a quick flip today.

Still nice to be up on a stock...most of the time, the stock plummets after I buy them!

Go Clovis!!!

I am still around, albeit not active for awhile. When my husband and I split up in November, I contacted eTrade about having my accounts moved out of his portfolio. They promptly locked down the account, and a month-long nightmare ensued as we tried to wrest back control of our money. Even after we both sent separate notarized instructions regarding the division of the account, it took 3 weeks, and I had to threaten to call my congressman and file a complaint with the SEC! (By some strange coincidence, I had my money the next day. Hmm.)

For the record, I don't think eTrade had any nefarious intent ... their customer service simply leaves something (a lot) to be desired. Caveat emptor ...

I'm still using them, though, mostly because I don't want to liquidate the stocks I'm holding and move my IRA (again, sigh).

I've only made a couple of trades thus far this year, on two old favorites, LNDC and WOR, but so far, I've made $332!

Sorry to hear about your break up. I had wondered what had happened to you, and I am sorry to learn about the bad news.

Congrats on the $332 profit!!!!

Willow, you should consider moving your account to Scottrade, especially if they have a local office. I like the guys at my local office, and I have someone to yell at, in person, if anything ever goes wrong. Their customer service is top notch!!!!

Interesting week with a few of my stocks:

GSK is up again. I am surprised since most stocks plummet after I buy them!

COP is getting hammered today, down over $3 a share. I almost bought COP instead of GSK, and was on the line about which to buy. I'll admit, it is nice to pick a stock and get lucky once in a while.

And, last but not least, my darling, LLY, the dividend champ has hit another 52 week high this week. Why didn't I buy more???

I'm adding more COP at these levels. This is solid in many ways and the dividend is decent as well. The spin off of PSX really adds weight to the NG commitment.

Time to accumulate more CAG and TRV. Food and insurance.....

Picking up more shares of COP is a good idea. My real target buy price has been $57 or so, but I think oil is going to be hot in the future.

Of course, my real reason for liking COP is because of the strong dividend. Have you heard about any possible dividend cut on this stock?

Has not happened in the past 30 years...I would not worry about a div cut at COP.

Speaking of strong dividends....next month WHZ will send me $40k in distributions (it is an MLP, so technically not a dividend).

Shifting gears.......who can answer this question: Why does GM trade at 10.7 times earnings (with no dividend) while Ford trades at 2.7 times earnings with a 3.1% dividend?


Tim

lol that is a lot of money in one place.