Goat Neutering

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Ramblin Wreck, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tootsie birthed her first boy this season, and I need to neuter/castrate him. I've bought the bands and the tool used to apply them. Any advice on conducting the procedure or his care afterwards would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. dragonchick

    dragonchick Well-Known Member

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    Ummm, slip the band on and let him go play with the other kids or back to mama. Make sure you have both testes before placing the band. Make sure you don't have a teat trapped. That's about it. He will cry and complain later that day/evening/night but he will be fine. Some give tetanus at this time and some do not. I would just in case.
     

  3. LaManchaPaul

    LaManchaPaul Well-Known Member

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    DC hit it. WE LOVE pictures....
    Paul
     
  4. dragonchick

    dragonchick Well-Known Member

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  5. Hawkfamily

    Hawkfamily Well-Known Member

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    How old is the baby? When are you planning on doing this?
     
  6. Oat Bucket Farm

    Oat Bucket Farm Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Our little boy didn't even cry or complain. He walked a little funny for the first thirty minutes or so and that was it.
     
  7. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He was born friday afternoon after a long, difficult labor for the nanny. We lost the first kidd, who was in a bad breach. Two more kidds followed, including this male. He's doing very well as of today. As for timing, the forecast calls for some warmer weather on Thursday, so I was targeting that day.
     
  8. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck Well-Known Member Supporter

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  9. Hawkfamily

    Hawkfamily Well-Known Member

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    I think this is way too early, no? I think you can't elastrate/castrate band until closer to 2 months old. Can someone else answer to this though? I think the urinary tract has to develop and that you can do some real permanent damage by elastrating too early.
     
  10. dragonchick

    dragonchick Well-Known Member

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    Baby boys can be castrated at any age. The UC is more of a managment issue than anything else.
     
  11. JKB07

    JKB07 Well-Known Member

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    Nope... its right. They can be banded at birth....


    Justin
     
  12. Hawkfamily

    Hawkfamily Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clearing this up. There seems to be some discrepancy out there in cyber world about when to do it.
     
  13. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks to all for your input. I need to get more supplies/drugs/smaller syringes before moving forward.
     
  14. Goat-Link

    Goat-Link Active Member

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    Thank you to who posted my website for castration information. I have researched this extensively and I will tell you - the kid needs to be as old as you can allow him to be, giving the urethra enough time to mature in size. Also the bands these days are larger than they used to be- placing a band on a newborn will not only create an issue for him later in life predisposing him to urinary calculi, but the band will not be tight enough to quickly cut off circulation also predisposing him to gangrene.

    The optimum time for banding is 6 months for most breeds, sooner for quick growing boers. Always give a tetanus antitoxin injection (even if the kid has already had CDT vaccines) - Newborns should Never be banded. Period. This comes from a couple years of research from some of the top goat research veterinary facilities And years of experience.
     
  15. dragonchick

    dragonchick Well-Known Member

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    Goat=Link, Thank you. Your site is one of the most detailed sites there is.
     
  16. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

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    i disagree.
    it depends on what the purpouse is you have with this buckling. in my opinion it is a far better choice to band as early as possible to prevent any oops breeding and to make sure, bucks that are not fit as a breeder, never entering the breeding program.
    for animals that are used later for pack goats or fiber animals, maybe different rules apply.
    UC is a feed management problem not because of banding young.
    i had a buck with UC, and he was not wethered but had bad feed management.
    after costly surgery, a week in hospital and change of feed, he never got it again.
     
  17. Goat-Link

    Goat-Link Active Member

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    I appreciate your opinion, but as you said, it is a feeding issue, BUT it is also a urethra issue- and as you stated you had a buck with UC- on an improper diet.
    Goats are goats and urethras are urethras. No matter the destined use of the goats- pack goats, fiber goats , dairy goats etc. Castrating at too early an age has been proven to predispose the urinary tract to not be able to develop as open as it would if castration is done at a later date.
    This being said - Proper calcium/phosphorus ratio is important in any goat's diet - and especially for bucks and wethers. Paulette, at her new site The Grinning Goat (Used to be Triquest) offers an acid pack nutritional supplement,
    Used in the treatment and prevention of Urinary Calculi.
    For those who are castrating young, (castration removes the hormones needed for proper development of the Urinary Tract (the growth of the urethra stops) thus you have a large goat trying to function through a small urethra.) I believe it is a matter of time before there is eventually an issue with UC. My advice, is to wait to castrate, give the boy a chance to develop and feed properly.

    Here is an excellent article I have on my website:

    URINARY CALCULI
    THE SHOW WETHERS WORST ENEMY

    Lisa Stacey
    The Good Shepherd Goat Farm
    The Goodshepherd Goat Farm

    Urinary Calculi also know as (Kidney Stones or Water Belly) has become the worst enemy of our 4-H and Open Shows Wethers

    Showing 4-H and Open Show Market Wethers has EXPLOEDED throughout the Country! It's a great project for beginners and novices alike. The project teaches feeding, finances, health, general care, sportsmanship etc.

    WHAT IS UC

    UC is the formation of Calculi (stones or crystals) in the urinary tract. The most common Calculi found in goats on a high concentrate diet is the "Struvite" type.

    SYMPTOMS OR SIGNS OF UC

    Tail twitching, restlessness, anxiety, kicking at the belly, not wanting to eat, a hunched back as they strain to urinate (this sign is the same as constipation and bloat), groaning or bleating while trying to urinate.

    The goat may show one or more of these signs. You must watch carefully to see if the goat is urinating! If you see these signs "REMEMBER" you can not make the goat urinate!

    CAUSES OF UC

    -High concentrated feeds for a long period of time
    -When the calcium/phosphorus ratio gets out of balance
    -Castrating or banding buck kids too early
    -Not enough water intake
    -Sulfur in the water, mineral composition of the drinking water
    -baking soda

    LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE ABOVE CAUSES OF UC

    High concentrated feeds for a long period of time: Goats aren't built to eat large amounts of grain. Goats are Browsers and prefer forage such as leaves, poison ivy, multi-floral rose etc. They can live solely on forage with no grain supplement if the forage is plentiful! If there is no forage or pasture available they can be fed a GOOD QUALITY Hay. Goats are ruminants. Their rumens can't work properly if they don't have access to forage/pasture or hay. If you feed commercial feeds (grain or pellets) "THEY MUST HAVE HAY" etc. for their digestive systems to work!
    The challenge comes when we are raising the Wethers for show and have a certain amount of time to get them up to weight. So we offer the goats as much grain/pellet feed that we can get them to eat (Remember they are foragers)

    The main cause of UC more so than the amount of grain fed is when the Calcium to phosphorus ratio gets out of balance! The calcium to phosphorus ratio in your goats feed should be calcium 2.7 to phosphorus .3 When this ratio gets out of balance you are putting your goat in extreme high risk of getting UC. The way this gets out of balance is when we start adding extra supplements to the already balanced commercial feeds. When you add supplements such as example: corn, roasted soy beans, soy bean mill etc. to the feed (showmen do this to make the goats grow faster, build muscle etc.) you just changed your calcium/phosphorus ratio.
    Castrating male goat to early can cause problems also. When we castrate or band young male kids it removes the hormones needed for proper development of the Urinary Tract (the growth of the urethra stops) thus you have a large goat trying to function through a small urethra. The male urethra is long with many twists and turns. Calculi lodges in the winding small urethra blocking the urine flow.

    Wethers that don't have access to water at all times can form UC. A pen of Wethers at a college ran out of water for a few hours one afternoon. The next day several died of UC. Water intake is important!

    Mineral composition of drinking water especially Sulfur plays a role in the formation of UC. Many producers will have available to their goat's free choice Baking Soda. This is done to help prevent bloating in the goats. However, Baking Soda is also a contributor to UC in male goats.

    PREVENTING URINARY CALCULI IS MUCH EASRIER THAN TREATING UC

    PREVENTION

    -Since we must supplement the Market Wethers with grain/pellets, choose a feed high in fiber (at least 10%). Pellet feeds are usually higher in fiber than the grain.
    -Choose feeds that are labeled so you know the calcium to phosphorus ratio are in balance 2.7 / .3
    -Offer PLENTY of forage/browse or good quality Hay
    -CLEAN FRESH WATER AT ALL TIMES. If you wouldn't drink what's in their water bucket then it's time for fresh water
    -Add Ammonium Chloride to the feed or water. Some commercial feeds already have this added. Read the label or ask questions!
    -Acid Pack Treatment: Add to the water (This is a GREAT product)
    -Add 3-4% salt to the feed. This will cause the goats to drink more water and reduce the incidence of UC
    -Test you water! You can do this at your local Extension Office or purchase a fish tank test kit. The water PH should be neutral (a PH of 5)
    -Buck kids should be castrated or banded NO EARLIER than 3 months of age

    TREATMENT

    If you suspect your Woat has UC "DON'T WAIT" until he isn't urinating to get help. When he stops urinating the hope for survival is almost gone. There is a surgery that can be performed however; it is extremely expensive and not economical. If the Wether is still dribbling urine sometimes treatment will be successful. Take the goat off all grain and feed. Feed only grass hay and water. Call your Veterinarian or a local Breeder for help!

    BEWARE of people who tell you not to worry about Urinary Calculi! The number of Show Wethers that die each year is astounding! You have the information!

    Don't let your Goat be a statistic

    References:
    Susan Schoenian, Western Maryland Reasearch & Education Center
    Dr. tatiana Stanton, Cornell University, Ithaca , NY 14853
    Urinary Calculi in Wether Lambs/Kid, By Richard V. Machen
     
  18. Hawkfamily

    Hawkfamily Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, once again, for clearing this up, Goat-Link. I knew that I'd read somewhere about this being too early.