Feeding All-stock feed. Bad idea??

Discussion in 'Goats' started by littlequail, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. littlequail

    littlequail Well-Known Member

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    So I have had goats for about 3 weeks now, at first I got Lela, the Alpine cross, I bought her Pregnant but the seller didn’t know much, only that she is At lest 2 months along. But with-in the past week she has started to give milk?? Her Utter does not look full, but I did notice a small Enlargement when I went to look at it. She did give about 4 squeezes of milk ((what does that mean)) Then I got my two Nigerian dwarfs both females, One is the Mother the other is her kid, I don’t know the age of them, the kid does eat her feed. And does not try to nurse from mom . I was told the Mother is Pregnant again and she gives Twins. But I have no idea how along is she with her Pregnancy.

    Anyway the Big Picture is, I have been feeding them “ALL-STOCK 12% SWEET FEED” from Feed solutions at tractor supply (this is there store brand) its $7 bucks a 50 pound bag, and from the Huge price range of real goat feed ($13-$16) dollars a 50 pound bag, I guessed the all-stock feed does not have Much in it, so I also bought manna-pro goat balancer and a Goat Mineral supplement block.

    After placing the block out in the pen, they don’t seem to really Enjoy it, or even notice it. So am thinking I might buy Manna-pro loose Goat Mineral to put that also in there Feed.

    Right now I feed the All stock feed with the goat balancer, they get this Once in the Morning and then Just the Feed at night, they have Hay but don’t seem to Want it. So we also chop down trees and they will eat them clean. (they eat as much as they like of the trees) does this seem like a Ok Diet, a good diet? With the added Minerals and Vitamins. Do you think I should lose the block and get the loose Goat Mineral and add it to the diet.

    All-stock feed 12% sweet feed: http://www.tractorsupply.com/feed-solutions-all-stock-sweet-12-animal-feed-50-lb--2405890

    Goat Balancer: http://www.mannapro.com/products/goat/goat-balancer/

    Goat Mineral: http://www.mannapro.com/products/goat/goat-mineral/

    they seem to really like the feed, they eat what i give them. but i want to make sure am meeting there Needs, they seem to be Fine on it. and act great. let me know how you feel about this!! thanks!
     
  2. LoneStrChic23

    LoneStrChic23 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First of all, stop squeezing out a bit of milk.

    When a kid nurses, it's saliva helps seal off the teat to prevent bacteria from getting inside the udder. When we milk them, we use a teat dip afterwards to do the same thing. Leave her alone, let her make the colostrum her kids will need & be patient. My doe started filling up 3 weeks before she had hee kids so it's just a waiting game, everyone is different.

    I know folks around here who feed all stock. My TSC carries 2 of them.....one with a sheep on the bag, one without. Use the one without the sheep as it has some copper which goats need.

    Yes, I would switch them to a loose mineral. Most goat minerals do not contain enough copper so I prefer to use Right Now Onyx by Cargil... It's a cattle mineral.

    I would also add alfalfa in some form to their diet so they have plenty of calcium for growing the kid's skeletons without leaching it from their own body. Plus this can help prevent hypocalcemia after kidding. I use Standlee brand alfalfa pellets (less waste) & leave it out free choice like hay. If yours have never had it before I'd leave out a lil less to start with so they can get used to it.

    Alfalfa is the biggest part of my girl's feeding, grain is just for added calories & comes 2nd to alfalfa & good quality grass hay.
     

  3. prairiedog

    prairiedog Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sweet feed is not very good for goats too much molasses messes up the rumen. Goats do not have a rough enough tongue to use blocks effectively they need a loose mineral that is high in copper. If they are in milk or pregnant they need a high source of calcium such as alfalfa hay or pellets. The browse they get with the trees is great.
     
  4. Pony

    Pony Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I fed the all-stock mixed with oats, about 5 parts oats to 1 part all-stock. They did very well, but now I have them on just oats (and a handful of corn here and there) in addition to the alfalfa pellets and free-choice, high-quality alfalfa/clover hay.
     
  5. LoneStrChic23

    LoneStrChic23 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh yea, leave out some baking soda free choice too.

    I prefer not to feed sweet feeds due to reasons listed by Judy, but if pennies are tight, you do what you must. When I was feeding sweet feed, my girls chowed down on the baking soda....now that they don't have sweet feed, they rarely touch it.

    If you must use the All Stock, provide a good loose mineral, alfalfa & good grass hay/browse & they should do fine.....just don't go over board on feeding the grain.
     
  6. littlequail

    littlequail Well-Known Member

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    when i was picking up the hay they Had tipton,oat,and Alfalfa when i asked the guy, what i should get for goats. tipton at $9 a 50 pound bale or Alfalfa at $13 ((oat was out of the Question since it was $16 a bale))he said to much Alfalfa can be Dangerous to goats, since if they eat to much they will get nitrate poisoning..Puzzled, i wanted to ask more. but i just assumed he knew more then me about what to feed them...so i got Tipton? they don't seem to like it at all.
     
  7. littlequail

    littlequail Well-Known Member

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    baking soda like the Kind in the Orange Box at the store?? if so how many boxes should i get. and will they just eat what they need So i can put out all of it?? Thanks for the help!
     
  8. FrogTacos

    FrogTacos Well-Known Member

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    I buy the 13lb bag of baking soda at Sams Club - MUCH cheaper than buying the little boxes. (I also use it as a laundry deodorizer - washes off stinky buck smell from my clothes)

    Pour at least a cup into a small tub feeder and hook it somewhere they wont throw it off. Add more as they empty it. If it gets a lot of other debris in it, empty it, add a new scoop.
     
  9. Pony

    Pony Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nitrate poisoning? Well, that's a new one on me.

    That is an old farmer's tale that alfalfa is bad for goats. Nothing cold be further from the truth. Your pregnant does especially need alfalfa.

    I have no idea what Tipton is. I feed alfalfa hay @$3.00/small bale. The oats I feed are bagged oats that I get for $9 per 50# bag.
     
  10. houndlover

    houndlover Well-Known Member

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    I don't feed all stock to goats, especially pregnant ones. I feed a complete horse feed, just a couple dollars more a bag and much better nutritionally. In addition they get free choice grass hay, alfalfa pellets (1 pound per 50 lbs of goat), Equis ultra min minerals, and baking soda. All stock is okay for sheep, but it's "all stock" because there's no added copper, and generally, the protein is between 9 and 12%, not rich enough to keep weight on my girls in cold temps.
     
  11. littlequail

    littlequail Well-Known Member

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    well am glad to hear that its not bad for them, i don't know if i can get another bale soon, since the next time the hay dealer will be open is After the holidays. but i know i can get a Bag of alfalfa pellets at TSC. does the milk my doe is now giving surly mean she is going to kid soon??
     
  12. Caprice Acres

    Caprice Acres AKA "mygoat" Staff Member Supporter

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    http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/livestoc/v839w.htm

    This is about nitrate poisioning (should actually be called nitrite poisoning). Good article - but Alfalfa isn't on the list for those things likely to cause a problem. :)

    All-stock is just fine for goats, IMO. I'd always make sure you kept baking soda out 24/7 for goats with molasses in the feed to buffer the rumen. I wouldn't but a TON out at a time because as it ages goats will stop eating it once it looses it's freshness.

    Just be sure to supply goats constantly with a source of quality forage - be it quality pasture or free choice alfalfa/grass mix hay. The amount of grain needed is much less than the amount of quality hay needed.

    Goats will develop their udder 4-6 weeks before they're due to kid. Don't express milk at this point.
     
  13. prairiedog

    prairiedog Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Can you get even a ball park date one when they were bred? The udder usually will get real tight and shiny looking just before kidding. The ligaments at the base of the tail will get loose and she may or may not have discharge. The little bit of milk you can express may not mean much.
     
  14. Backfourty,MI.

    Backfourty,MI. Katie Supporter

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    I agree with all the advice given from everyone above. I too use the Right Now Onyx loose cattle mineral by Cargill. I put that & baking soda in the 2 sided black dishes that tractor supply sells. I have the dishes hanging in the barn & also in their lean too out side so the weather doesn't ruin the mineral & baking soda.

    I buy sodium bicarbonate in 50 pound bags from my local feed store. I keep it in a steel drum in the barn & it lasts me quite awhile & I think the last time I bought it the cost was around $7.00. It is the same as baking soda from the store.

    I make sure my goats have hay 24/7 & then they do get a 1/4 cup of grain I mix up a.m. & p.m. If they are nursing kids I up their grain portions. I also feed them alfafa pellets when I'm feeding grass hay or when the girls are pregnant or nursing kids, even if I have alfafa/grass mix hay.

    Too much alfafa is bad for male goats, maybe that's what the guy selling the hay was thinking. You can not give your female goats too much alfafa hay.
     
  15. wintrrwolf

    wintrrwolf Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I mix sweet feed with alfalfa pellets. Alfalfa hay is really hard to find around here not to mention this years crop apparently was infected with some beetle that can cause death in mares...so not taking a chance with my goats either. Pasture hay, loose goat mineral (think I found a 50# bag at Orchlen's), and baking soda daily. Goats prefer to nibble then lick sooo if you feel up to it you might try breaking your block up. I still remember when I became a new goat "person" and all the well meaning suggestions from people who "know" goats. I have since learned so much from HT and laugh at how OVERBOARD I went in the beginning, thankfully my goats survived me. Goat pregnancy and due times LOL if you do not know the exact breeding date its all a waiting game. I had one Doe that udder'd up 3 weeks before, another 4 weeks before, and another a few days before. I have one buck that looks so pregnant I keep checking him for an udder (jk)
     
  16. Alice In TX/MO

    Alice In TX/MO More dharma, less drama. Supporter

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    Tifton is a bermuda family grass, longer leaf, less stem.
     
  17. HappyFarmer

    HappyFarmer Well-Known Member

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    Six of one, half a dozen of the other. If it works, go with it. Each farm is different because the feeds come from varying sources. Your minerals should be the loose minerals & they should cover what your feeds are lacking. Remember cheap can be good if you make up for what is lacking, cheap all around will reflect in our herds health & production. Whatever combo's you decide on give them a little bit of time to work or not before improving upon it, and don't forget to switch slowly.

    From what I understand the nitrate poisoning occurs after a frost on the field, rye grass I think. Not too common that i've heard but when it occurs entire herds are effected.

    HF
     
  18. Pony

    Pony Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's really a matter of ratios, but I still don't see how there can be such a thing as "too much" alfalfa hay for any goat, male or female.
     
  19. LoneStrChic23

    LoneStrChic23 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know our local All Stock comes in 2 varities........One has a picture of a goat, sheep & cow on it & has no copper......the other has a picture of a horse, cow & goat & does contain copper.

    I've never heard of alfalfa causing nitrate poisoning, but have heard that said about Johnson grass, Sudan & some hay grazers...... I feed coastal & sudan as my grass hays, & only buy my sudan from a guy who has his hay tested so I'm sure it's safe.
     
  20. littlequail

    littlequail Well-Known Member

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    when i got the goat "Lela" the Man didn't know much. Basically she has been out at Pasture...and that's it. with Females and Males. when i asked what was she eating (grain,hay, and other stuff) He didn't have answer for me. She was just kept out on the field. that's it

    tomorrow i will drive out to TSC, i will keep my Goats on this


    All stock 12% sweet feed, << what i have been using

    Goat Balancer by manna pro << i have been using this

    Goat Mineral by manna pro<< i will start using this in their feed.

    Alfalfa pellets << will get a 50 pound bag mix it with there feed

    baking soda << will put this out in a pan so they can have it when they like.

    However about "Hay" i have the Tifton hay, i Lay it in there Pen in the ground, and they take a few Bites,but never sit there and "chow down"...is it the Kind of hay they dont like, or should i put it up in a Hay bag. i will work on getting some Alfalfa hay once the local hay dealer is open again.

    let me know if you think there is something else i should ad, i noticed some use Oats in there feed. others Horse feed. very Interesting and helpful.