Doe kidded with full udder but no milk

Discussion in 'Goats' started by horsehelper, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. horsehelper

    horsehelper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    S.E. MO
    Ok, this is a problem I've never run across myself. My daughter who lives 8 hours from me, has a 3 yr old nubian doe who had a single buckling last spring (first freshening). The doe had no milk, and DD could never get any milk at all from her. She had the vet out, thinking it might be mastitis. Her udder was full and hard, but vet said no mastitis, and could get no milk either. So DD bottle fed the kid (no colostrum), and he did just fine, and she still has him (now a wether). Today the same doe kidded twin doelings, and same situation. Apparently full udder...unable to milk anything. She has made sure any plug was removed, used hot compresses and massage, and not one drop of milk. She says one teat is filled out like a normal teat with milk, but the other one is long and thin with no fullness to it, but neither can be milked. Has anyone ever experienced this? Any suggestions? DD has given the kids colostrum replacer, but was hoping for some advice or way to get this doe milking. The doe was bought at 3 months of age, and we are positive she had never kidded before last spring, so no history other than what I've told above. Never sick, never injured, up to date on vaccinations and worming, no fever, and today was day 155 gestation. Everything seems perfectly normal besides the milk situation.
     
  2. dbarjacres

    dbarjacres Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,981
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2004
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Somebody else chime in here (sure someone will!) but couldn't CAE cause this? Has this doe ever been tested? I'm betting there is something inhibiting the milk from coming out and believe that CAE causes congestion in the udder, thus milk can't come out. I wouldn't breed her anymore.
     

  3. horsehelper

    horsehelper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    S.E. MO
    No, she has not been tested. She will be culled this year, but my DD wanted to give her a second chance, and it obviously didn't work out. Babies were removed at birth to dry them as it is only 4 degrees there today, so they have not had a chance to attempt nursing, so if it could be CAE, they should be safe....correct?
     
  4. dosthouhavemilk

    dosthouhavemilk Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,174
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Location:
    SE Ohio
    It does sound like a symptom of CAE, especially if she has been there since she was 3 months old.
    Were the kids cleaned up by the doe? Were they put onto a teat to try and get them to nurse? Any fluids at all from the udder given to the kids?
    Or were they taken pretty much after their arrival and removed from the area and not exposed to her after?
    If the second, from my understanding, they is a good likelihood the cycle may be broken.
    My understanding is very fundamental though. The breeders who dealt with it in the early 90s would have a better idea about it all than I.
     
  5. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,314
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Location:
    NW OR
    Congested udder is a symptom of CAE, but honestly, I think something else is going on here. Even in CAE positive does, a few days of vicks and massaging allows them to let milk down. There would be a congenital deformity in the teats or the udder itself. Has a teat tube ever been inserted?
     
  6. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

    Messages:
    4,465
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Location:
    michigan
    roeanna your understanding is correct :)

    only in very rare cases the kids can get infected during labor. if they are removed immideatly after birth, kept seperate after complitly try and not given the chance to suck on each other they should be fine.

    i had a doe with cae, very hard udder like a rock and nothing came out. it is possible that this is cae. other causes for edema in the udder is too much molasse in the feed but in my experience this feels different and is getting softer with massage, warm moist towls and lots of milking.
     
  7. horsehelper

    horsehelper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    S.E. MO
    Yes, the kids were removed immediately, and have not been re-exposed at all. I've been on the phone with her all evening, and the more she describes the udder to me, I'm beginning to believe it is more of a congenital defect. She has not tried inserting a teat tube. The goats do not get molasses in their feed. She has a pet home for the doe where she will not be bred, and she has the kids in the house, and will bottle feed them. I appreciate the info. Guess the bottom line is the doe should not and will not be bred again, and will be leaving soon. At what age would you recommend testing the doelings?
     
  8. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,133
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Location:
    Montana
    Since these doelings have not been in contact with their dam since birth, there is little chance they will develop CAE. I had a doeling out of a positive doe delivered C section and raised on prevention who continues to test negative at three years of age. When they are first tested depends on what they are fed. If they are fed pasteurized goat's milk, you should wait 6 weeks after weaning to test them. Otherwise you could get a false positive if the milk came from a positive doe. If they are fed cow's milk, they could be tested siooner. I've had does tested at 3-4 months old.
     
  9. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

    Messages:
    4,465
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Location:
    michigan
    this is correct goatkid. i like to get kids tested as soon as they come to my farm. i want to know if they had milk from a positive doe or come from a herd with positive animals. i also send samples in from my kids when they are about three month old. i was burned with cae from two different breeders that practiced cae prevention. the first time i also thought i don't need to test so early because of eventually false positive results and trusted people that recomended the breeder. i had them tested as yearlings before they kidded and both where positive and had to be destroyed. the second time i bought some doelings, tested immideatly when they arrived at my farm and one of them had a rised titer. still in the negative area but dr, everman from WADDL said i need to keep an eye on this one. 6 weeks later this kid died of cae pneumonia. this was confirmed with autopsy and blood test that came back positive for cae. i would test kids in any age group no matter what.
     
  10. horsehelper

    horsehelper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    S.E. MO
    Thank you! They will be fed on store bought cows milk. Both are doing well, and are real cuties. I will suggest to her that they be tested. I'm surprised her vet didn't recommend testing the doe last year. She is supposed to be the goat vet in the area...go figure! She just told DD to breed her again, and she might do fine this time. These are 4-H goats of my grandson's. He has 2 more does to kid soon. Both were excellent moms last year. This is their 2nd kidding. Last year he won Ch lightweight dairy market, Res Ch Med Wt dairy market, and got 1st and 2nd place jr dairy doe kids. So we've been very pleased with his efforts. He is 11 yrs old, and last year was his first year in 4-H. This all started when he came to visit us a few years ago, and wanted to take a baby goat home. I gave him a wether kid to bottle feed, and it grew from there. That original wether now weighs about 250 lbs, and is his best buddy.
     
  11. DocM

    DocM Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,314
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Location:
    NW OR
    I'd have the whole herd tested, just for peace of mind.
     
  12. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,817
    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    North of Houston TX
    Also for mycoplasma, it mimics the same syptoms as CAE, swollen knees/joints and a hard udder, cement hard that will not milk down like edema will. Vicki