Ammonium chloride in grain for does okay?

Discussion in 'Goats' started by Jillis, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,680
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Location:
    Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
    I got the grain for the bucks that has ammonium chloride in it. We have such hard water that I want to be as preventive as possible until I can get another water source for the boys.

    I checked the labels and compared the other nutrients to the sweet feed I give the girls...the bucks grain is Nutrena's Nature Wise sweet pellets for goats. The girls get Poulin's Sweet Goat 18%.

    The nutritional label on the Nutrena for the boys actually looks like a better grain than the Poulin's. I'd like to just have ONE bag of grain in my tiny feed room.

    But is it okay for the girl's to eat the ammonium chloride? How about when pg or milking? Will it affect the taste or quality of the milk?

    Thank in advance! Jillis!
     
  2. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

    Messages:
    4,465
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Location:
    michigan
    jillis why do you want to feed grain to your boys?
    if the reason is because of your hard water you could put AC in the mineral feeder or in their drinking water. 1 table spoon for each boy daily.
    i think you could also soften the water with apple vinegar. i never tried this but i heard the goats love the taste.
     

  3. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,680
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Location:
    Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
    susanne, they get literally a small handful each just as a treat. Each one of them was given grain where I bought them from and it just seems mean to grain the does right in front of them and give them nothing. I think the ND buck in particular already has enough frustrated desire in his life, LOL!
     
  4. lacesout

    lacesout Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    80
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    I just tried putting ammonium chloride in the buck's water. It has not seemed to deterr them from drinking - I monitored their water intake for several days prior to the introduction of the AC. Does anyone know the best dosage?? I have read 1 tsp for each buck - with the buck's weight estimated at 150 lbs. So .... does this translate into 1/3 tsp for a 50 lb mini-buck or would the dosage remain 1 tsp per animal.

    Anyone know?? I don't grain them so can't use that route.

    Thanks in advance to anyone who can help with dosage!!!

    Lynn
    Mesa COunty, CO
     
  5. goatkid

    goatkid Well-Known Member Supporter

    Messages:
    2,133
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Location:
    Montana
    The AC in goat developer pellets does not harm doelings. I feed it to all my kids because of the coccidiostat. My bred doelings have eaten it in early pregnancy with no harm to the babies.
     
  6. Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

    Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,817
    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Location:
    North of Houston TX
    It just doesn't work that way gals :)

    A handful of anything is not going to do anything, yes a treat that is fine, but the minerals, the AC and the cocci drug has to be fed so bloodlevels are kept up. A handful is not going to do this. The bags are all dosed for 1 pound of feed per 30 to 50 pounds of body weight. So to get enough AC every single day they have to eat that much. Same with.............

    Minerals,,,you have 3 bucks you add 3 teaspoons of AC to the mineral do they eat that much mineral every single day with the added AC in it?

    Water,,,,,you add 3 teaspoons to your bucks water, do the 3 boys drink the water down to nothing each day? First that is unhealthy to the buck only getting a portioned amount of water, in too small of container the water overheats in the summer and they won't drink all the water they need, too small of containers also tip over. Too large of containers and it dilutes the amount of AC in the water and they aren't eating all of it.

    Get it?

    AC only increases protein in your does diet, it is afterall only a mineral.

    Unless you have a specific problem on your farm, bucks only need AC if you feed grain, when my bucks get grain prebreeding and after rut, they get AC in the grain, the rest of the year my bucks live off the woods, grass hay and alfalfa pellets which I put their minerals in....no AC because their diet is very low in phosphrous. Bucklings until well grown really need grain, so use AC with them. With a goal of breeding by 7 months, to get size you really need lots of milk and grain. Vicki
     
  7. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,680
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Location:
    Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
    Vicki, I am finding it so difficult to get any definitive answers on what actually causes UC, aside from the kink in the "machinery", and how best to prevent it.

    Is it the calcium that causes it? Or a high phosphorus to calcium ratio? Or is it just too much of either mineral?

    My concern is that I have very hard water. A local goat vet said that has more to do with UC than dietary practices. I just don't know. Most of the goat people I know grain their bucks and don't worry about it, never had a buck with UC.

    My friend sold a Nigie wether to a lady and instructed her to use the grain with the AC in it, and the buck died of UC. The owner is blaming my friend for this, although she had owned him for several months before this happened.

    Please tell me, what is the main cause of UC, and how do I best avoid it?

    TIA! Jill
     
  8. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

    Messages:
    4,465
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Location:
    michigan
    jillis, one part is heredetary, one part banding too early and one part dietary, wrong phophor calcium ratio.
    you could soften the water with vinegar :)

    edit: also not enough water available can concentrate urin and stones can develope
     
  9. Jillis

    Jillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,680
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Location:
    Northeast Kingdom of Vermont
  10. susanne

    susanne Nubian dairy goat breeder

    Messages:
    4,465
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2004
    Location:
    michigan
    you :) are welcome

    jillis a very good investment for you would be the goat medicine book from smith/sherman.
    i think you might find a cheaper used version now because there is a new edition coming out.