Would love input...tired of thinking in circles.
 

I would value input from members of this particular forum and processing. I do not know what TEOFWAWKI will look like, but I know what it has looked like to me in the past. It had to do with poverty, pure and simple...no toilet paper, no tooth brushes, washing blue jeans in the bath tub with dish soap, etc. And while I live very well now, I never want to go back. Given I will be living on a fixed income soon, I need to make decisions now.

I have a lovely supply of things...very nice due to my fears. But I feel strongly I need to take what money I have and buy a homestead large enough for at least two homes; I have adult sons. We currently live in the suburbs and soon it will not be financially feasible. The issues?
- I will be 59 soon...single with a nine year old at home.
- The places I like ( and can afford ) have little to no job prospects for my sons.

I just keep thinking in circles; I honestly feel we need to be off grid ( solar power ), etc. I would like a place where my sons could feel they could always manage to survive.

Poverty is privation, and privation is what people fear in any disruption. If you can handle privation then you are "prepped", as far as I'm concerned.

You will never starve to death. In order to starve me you would have to lock me in a concrete cell and not feed me. Better post a guard though to make sure no rats or cockroaches get in. I'll eat those if I don't have anything else available.

Your sons are a problem. Or rather, the fact that they need "jobs" to survive is a problem. You're not going to be able to pack adult sons up and off into the rural areas where there are no jobs when they are reliant on them in order to survive.

What is financially feasible to you on a fixed income may not be desirable at all to them on a non-fixed income. Are they even interested in homesteading? Do they have any skills or desire towards that? Even if it's just a hobby?

The bottom line is this ...

Places where jobs are available cost more, because the people selling them know that people who have (and need) jobs can afford more.

I would need more info about you in order to give better advice. But at age 58 and soon to be on a fixed income, your options are somewhat limited in creating and establishing a freehold for adult sons (unless they are there to help). Best you may be able to do is pick up land and hold it for them until such time as they are ready to move to it.

One son is my "city dude". He likes to visit his father's 25 acres in Ky a few times per year but has yet to buy into my beliefs.

Middle son is a bit different. Though he has a job and savings, once, after witnessing a squirrel die after running into the back of vehicle, he circled around and had the squirrel for dinner. He loves isolated land, hunting, fishing camping, etc. He is self taught via books, internet, a black smith class, etc. The "baby" would follow him anywhere.

If I were in my 30's or even 40's I would not think twice about buying a place listed here on HT ( Ozark Mountains but would love Ohio or Ky).

I may need to rethink getting a place and having it ready...just in case. Circles...

Worry about you and your 9 year old at this point, include your middle son in the planning, but look for somewhere you can expand if your sons have to come "home". Teach the 9 year old EVERYTHING you can to survive in case something happens. I (THANK GOD) was taught by my father when I was a child--the only one of my family that wanted to learn his skills---I thank him every day that he taught me these things, as I was one of those "it could never happen to me people"...well "it" did, and actually I'm much happier for it. My children could run this little farm--they know how to fish, use a gun, knives, spears, bow and arrows, can and freeze, make things, take care of, and are knowledgeable with goats, chickens, sheep, horses (both riding and driving), cattle, pigs, ducks, etc. They can make their own soap and use a washboard (although they dont have to). They can grow and tend a garden, butcher, etc...you get the picture. We live VERY simply--but according to my children they are very happy..and that's what is the most important to me. Ernie has such good advice, and the people here are very helpful.

Buying a "for sale" home on HT is kind of like buying a former pizza restaurant to open up a new pizza restaurant. You would want to know the real reasons for why it is being sold. :)

Some people just want to move somewhere else and that would be a good bargain, but there are sometimes underlying reasons as to why that property is up for sale ... too high of property taxes, draconian laws, or a crazy neighbor with vicious dogs. :)

I have 4 sons, all of whom have been raised IN the homesteading life. One of them I fear will run off to the city as fast as he can because he is in love with technology and the world. It can't be helped as he'll be his own man, but I have done my part in teaching him the skills to live in BOTH worlds, or either.

The oldest is certainly going to be a homesteader to some degree as he can't stand the lightest of shackles. The two youngest are still so young that I can't tell which direction they may or may not go.

Frankly, I don't think the world is going to hold out much longer, KD.

And it's yet to be seen whether it will be "safer" to go out into the rural areas and try to survive on your own, or whether it would be better to just lock away dreams of freedom deep inside your heart and give all appearances of being a good party member and say all the right things.

I would have liked to have met your middle son. We have much in common.

or a crazy neighbor with vicious dogs.

Ha! Ha! LOL

" I have done my part in teaching him the skills to live in BOTH worlds, or either."
Your a great dad Ernie! One can never know when these skills might be needed in his life.

Sometimes just jumping in is the best way..yeah i know..it goes against the security seeking side..i was once that person who had to know what was on the other side...but i jumped into homesteading 10 years ago...we bought overgrown wooded land..built our own house..started homesteading..we both work because we enjoy it..but we live almost as if we have no income..my adult son and daughter and son in law with three grandchildren all live here..surviving..it was hard at first and rough last year when hail and a tornadoes took out all my gardens but we learned that we can do anything..in the beginning we lived without power..three years with no water or plumbing...but very worth it

Remains to be seen. :)

But I want to give my sons and daughter the ability to make a rational decision as to which life they want to live. They've seen me at all states of life, from high paid engineer to poverty to sustainable craftsman. They have both eaten in nice restaurants AND watched the sun set over empty and remote ridgelines.

We kept them out of the indoctrination machine and freed them from the believe that the shackles of the system are right and justified. It remains to be seen what they will do with their own lives when their own choices are made.

This may sound irrational, but after reading the posts, I literally long for living on a homestead. My ex ( ex for 22 years now ) owned abt. 100 acres in Ky. a few years back. He let us visit at will and I would literally cry driving off the land. It was if the land held some type of pull, a serenity. Sadly, I could not afford his asking price at the time and it was sold. All three of my sons think selling the place was a major mistake.

I think I am going to just follow my heart and jump in. I have another year here. I will be canning, crocheting, learning, etc. Fortunately I have always homeschooled so no major issues there.

If I am close enough, sons can work until they are ready and come down on weekends, etc. I honestly think it will be sooner rather than later.

As an aside, we play the "conflicted" card game...it is unbelievable how different the two oldest sons answer the questions.

Follow your heart, but be prepared to work very hard--harder than any job you have probably ever had---100 degree weather, cold, rain, ---- but again--I personally have never been truly at peace, as I am now. Come hell or high water, I will never work in "town" again..
again--this site has so much useful information..things you thought you knew, or issues pop up, and someone is always helpful. Use it to your advantage.

We have outlawed the word "work" here on our farm, CT. :)

Work is what I used to do, picking up and going off to a job for a paycheck. It was very unpleasant.

What we do now is called "living". It sometimes involves splitting wood, carrying water, making knives, or pulling weeds in the garden, but it also involves sleeping under the old oak tree, watching sunsets and sunrises with your children, and playing with the dogs.

Looking through photos from 2008...yep, I am ready to go. Anyone know of a place like this for sale in Ky or Ohio? :)

I understand the longing - and the connection to land. I left 90 acres and house I designed and helped build. Long story.

And atm, I miss the mountains. However: time is short. I think we need to get serious about what we can do for ourselves, right where we are. Unless you're in an apartment (and even then, there are things to do; can be done)... you can do a lot with even the smaller town lots to feed yourself. Get some rain barrels; redirect the downspouts.

Where flower beds would be - plant bushy or climbing/vining veggies. Provide a trellis. Shrink the grass you have to mow by tilling up plots. Start ordering seeds - even if you don't plant them this year. Test your soil & amend as needed.

It IS possible to be self-sufficient in suburbia with a little creativity/effort -- and lack of interference from TPTB.

Good for you...live your dream..live as we were intended to live...it is a peace like we have never known..

Ernie..when we moved here we also had children in all stages of life..two live with us still homesteading and raising their children..two chose a different path...the odd thing was it wasnt the two i would have thought...on a side note..my son has been admiring your knives on your etsy shop...so hopefully I will be able to make a purchase soon for his birthday

Kd..also remember you dont need 100 acres..i think you may find it is more efficient to homestead on smaller acreage..

It sounds like you are very emotional about this, and therefore I would suggest you step back and take a deep breath. This is not a decision that would best be made emotionally. For this, you need plenty of hard, cold logic. And pray a lot, if you are a religious person.

There are a few basic points you need to consider. If things are bad enough for your sons to seriously consider bugging out to your homestead location, would there be work anywhere? IMO, when times get that bad, most office workers will find themselves unemployed. If they don't provide essential services, then they may very well find that there is no work to be had in urban areas either.

I think you need to prioritize your needs for your home search. If this is to be a post SHTF refuge, then you need to be able to grow enough food, protect it while it is growing, heat your home and protect whatever assets you have when they are gathered in. So I would consider things like accessibility to trespassers, how interrelated the local community is and whether you would be accepted there, the amount of tillable land that you could use for crops, adequate firewood supply, adequate water supply, etc. Beauty and serenity are nice side benefits, but neither will keep you alive if the SHTF.

I would caution you to avoid debt like the plague. It is the kiss of death in a rural area where income is uneven and uncertain, even in the best of times. So don't buy more land than you can afford or go into debt to put a house or two on it. A lot of people seem to think that when the SHTF, the banks will just go away. I disagree. I think when they get squeezed really hard, they will start squeezing those who owe them even harder. And if you can't pay, then they will hire some tenant farmer to live on your place and grow crops for them to sell.

I would also caution you about operational security. Particularly since your oldest son is not all that interested and might well make comments to others in passing. It is best that the fewest people know of your homestead plans as possible. Because there is the possibility that everyone who knows might show up on your doorstep, looking for a handout. Some may offer to trade labor or barter goods for it. Others may plan to take it from you by force. So play your cards close to your vest. The realtor does not need to know your plans, nor do your neighbors, friends, acquaintances, nor those of your sons.

There are lots of websites and books that provide information about what would make an ideal homestead site. You might even see if there are any elderly relatives of yours or your sons who would allow you to live on their land while practicing your skills and looking for your own place. Perhaps they might even consider selling you a chunk of theirs if you work both places. Be sure to run everything through the proper legal channels so that you don't find yourself kicked out by some absentee landlord later on when the estate ends up in the hands of a differently minded nephew.

I do think you should move on this sooner rather than later. Like the song says, it's closer than it's ever been. You might not get your exact dream location, but perhaps you could get something adequate and use that as a base to look for something better. I'd suggest you avoid the shale oil areas, as property is at an all time high there these days. For now, you are seeking a safe refuge, not to become an oil baroness.

Good luck with this. But do let your head lead and not your heart with this one.

ovsfarm, you have noted so much of what middle son and I have discussed. Oldest son would bring the entire social network with him. We use the Conflicted card game several times a week just to see where we are in our thoughts.

I frequent The Survivalist Blog and have bought, and read, a nice library of books.

Just this morning I told middle son the job situation may be a non issue in a few years...no one is going to have steady work.

Thanks to each of you...time to find the right place and get started.

We're in KY ... I've been here for over 12 years, DH 10 years longer. He started with 10 acres, we added about 5 more acres and that is all we can comfortably manage in our 70s and 80s and it certainly would 'support' more livestock and a big garden, also fruit trees, etc. if we were more physically able. As it is, we have rabbits and horses ... we buy all our hay ... and that's what we can manage reasonably.

I moved here from MT, where 15 acres would 'support' a cow or horse during the summer, a garden ... if you had good water and bought your winter hay. Very different climates and management.

I don't know that I have much to offer, Kentuck, seeing as you are leaning toward more southeastern locales........ but I sure wish I had neighbors like you to help get started.

This sitting around on an established homestead, watching the world fall apart around me, is for the birds, so to speak.

Kinda like Ernie said......once the homestead is established, there can be a lot of time available for, well........just about anything.

Maybe there is something to be said for the "simple" life.

Let me add my 2 cents here.....While looking for the acreage you want, you need to be aware of:

1. the building codes in those areas as that will determine a lot of the costs of what you will need to live there.

2. whether or not that acreage you find will perk, i.e. permit a septic system

3. community....would be wise to visit neighbors "prior" to purchase so as to find out:
....a) what is the weather like and from which direction the worse of it comes
....b) what natural predators are there
....c) what animals are they raising and what is gardening like
....d) where is nearest medical emergency facility
....e) where is nearest shopping center
....d) what type of neighbors do you think they will make

Once you find an "area" that is workable for your situation (emotional and well as financial), just get a small place. It is not necessary to have a large piece of land to homestead in a way that permits self-sufficiency.

Most importantly: Do not bite off more than you can chew; and going into debt would be EXTREMELY UNWISE.

==================================
Forerunner, there are a lot of places that would be eager to get volunteers; so there is no need to just sit around if you don't truly want to......

My ex was in Adair County, Ky. But after looking at several properties I think the land he had was not "the norm". It was at the end of the road, house set back, etc.

When I contacted a realtor, the properties for sale had homes set on the main road, within throwing distance of the neighbor's home, or literally built within feet of the next property.

I looked at a typical Amish farm but the house was not built well.

We are very cautious about what we want...mineral rights, limited regs, etc.

You may look from here until the end of your days for property with mineral rights and still not find any. Most people do not sell those, and for whatever strange reason, our screwed up laws separate them from the property rights. Probably as some ancient mechanism to let oligarchs screw us over.

There's what you want and what you're going to get, and they may not be the same thing.

Realtors are ... not good about finding you homesteads. In my experience, they don't have a clue what you're looking for and aren't going to show you the cheaper properties. They're not going to go off the beaten path until they've exhausted their pool of easy-to-reach properties.

Call around before you get too tied to any one realtor. Tell them exactly what you're looking for and point out that you won't appreciate them wasting your time with anything else. Probably 9 out of 10 will not help you at that point and you can move on to looking for that special one.

The one we had in Illinois must have shown us fifty properties that weren't anything like what we wanted. We finally gave up on her and went looking on our own ... weekend after weekend. We used Google Earth to scout out good locations ahead of time and drove down backroads until we saw what we wanted for sale.

As for property sitting right next to the main roads, any house built after rural electrification will probably be like that. If it's not, then it's going to be a big mansion built back in the woods, because that's the only folks who could afford to run electricity back out there.

One of the reasons we were able to get our property here in Texas for so cheap was that it had no access to water and no access to electricity. Nobody else wanted it. For 99.999% of Americans, it wasn't suitable as a homesite.

When we showed up, it was just a big pasture. We cut an old barbed wire fence to get in. Every post, every nail, every board was put exactly where I wanted it. I didn't have to settle for what some previous owner had decided (for right or for wrong).

That's always an option for you. Don't stop and think "well I can't build a home myself". You can buy nice sheds and convert them to a house, or you could pay a couple of good ol' boys to swing by and build you something, or you could just buy a more modern trailer home and park it there too.

Maybe Kentucky Dreamer could move to SFM in Kentucky and rent the little cabin while she looked around. At least you'd have a friend.

Unfortunately, it's strictly a one-person situation ... only 360 square feet and not adequate for more than one single person, which does make options more limited.