1930's CCC Camps-know what I'm talking about
 

I don't doubt camps are in this country's future, but I doubt they'll be as benign as the CCC camps. Whole different reason for them.

I worked in the YCC when I was 15.... It would be cool if they brought back the CCC.. we'd gt some things fixed, and give some people jobs that have some real value in what they would learn..

Can the "gov." really afford to hire THAT many more people? I don't believe this is a long term solution to the unemployment problem.
Getting off the backs off people who want to start/expand companies would help though. Obama is "regulating" small business owner's right OUT of business. Those with the money to create new businesses, won't. Same reasons, reg's, obamacare, decline of the dollar & the economy in general. The fed gov isn't supposed to "create" jobs, they're supposed to get out of the way so individual's and companies can.

It was a different time. People actually felt embarrassed for their financial problems then ( whether it was, or was not, their fault ). They would fight FOR a job.....any job.

Today, there is such a sense of entitlement, fostered by 50 years of govt welfare programs, that they would fight to keep from working.

It wasn't then either. The only thing that ended the depression of the 30's was Roosevelt getting us into WW2. With that, govt spending, and dollar devaluation has pretty much been off to the races ever since.

it was also called the "manly camp". Boys into men. It was a different time back then, so much as gone wrong. I too have been a small business owner and know the hardships faced each day to keep your doors open and work for your employees. I felt NO support from our gov't in trying to provide jobs and boost economy. Don't know what the answer is but solutions so far have not and are not working.

And....I do have to say that we, as Americans, need to be prepared and survive with what we have here on our soil. No more importing what we can grow. We need to provide for our own...other words.....if we grow, make, etc. everything we (Americans) need then I believe the snowball effect would better us all. Getting carried away...sorry.

I wrote a paper on the CCC in college. I have been saying for several years we need to quit sending money to other countries and start something like the CCC again. Lets train men to build inexpensive modular housing, put in community gardens, demolish some of these abandoned buildings that are urban blight etc etc etc

Our country needs to get away from the idea that you are nothing if you don't have a title.

IMO, That's part of the problem, we (U.S.) have hardly any manufacturing industry going on in this country anymore. As a kid, I wore undies from the standard knitting mill where my grandfather worked, jeans from the Levi's shop where my other grandmother worked, ate pimento cheese & ham salad from the company my mom worked at for awhile, and my toys mostly came from a company that my mom used to work for. Our tv & stereo came from a company my uncle worked for. Never heard of a Toyota, everybody we knew drove a ford or chevy. Our milk came from a dairy down the road and was delivered to the frig by our "milkman" and he knew where the house key was hidden. (Now I'm getting carried away...sorry!)
But seriously, everything you pick up now says made in china, mexico, or some other country, and MOST of it is CRAP. I would rather pay more, and get a higher quality product that's going to last for more than 2 weeks. Sam Walton began Walmart bragging how the merchandise was "made in the USA." I'd bet if you pick up 15 items there now, maybe 1 or 2 are made in the US. Where have all the jobs gone? Its easy to tell, just look at the labels of what you're buying. The FDA has given approval for US raised & grown CHICKEN to be shipped to china to be processed and then shipped back to the US to be sold here! Yep, I can't make that kind of stuff up, and we all know NOTHING can go wrong with THAT plan, right? They don't have to label it so that you know, either. We better start growing our own, folks! (IF you aren't already)

Backwoods, I saw an old Indian woman working on a floor loom a few days ago. She makes saddle blankets, 100% wool, and they sell for about $400. Pretty patterns too.

But the economy which would have previously bought them is gone. She's still weaving, but they're just piling up in the corner now waiting to be bought.

The CCC only employed unmarried men 18-25 and they weren't "trained" to do anything but manual labor. The labor unions saw to that, as there were many union members out of work.

William Green, head of the American Federation of Labor, was taken to the first camp to demonstrate that there would be no job training involved beyond simple manual labor... according to Wikipedia.

In terms of the CCC and a modern day equivalent, let me ask you this. How many people that are currently unemployed are going to sign up for this? It would be hard work in tough conditions. Men these days just don't seem to be willing to move away from the family for work as they used to be. That was a broad generalization. We surely have many examples here otherwise.

I live in WA and in the eastern part they can't get enough people to pick veg and fruit so they employ illegals. Where are all the citizens that need jobs?

Manual labor in the woods still teaches you a lot.. you start learning a lot about the plants and wildlife.. If you're building any kind of roads or trails.. or building ranger stations or outhouses, it teaches you something.. if you're digging ponds, it teaches you more..


If all you are doing is physical labor, and not learning anything while you're doing it, you're doing it wrong..

To understand the CCC camps and the how and why of them you have to do a little digging and understand history. They were a brilliant solution to a host of problems. At a minimum, they had these purposes:

1. The men working in them had a little money to send back to their wives and family to prevent starvation. This is what most people think was the primary purpose.

2. The various public works projects generally had strategic value as well as economic value. Dams create electricity, electricity is used in steelmaking and industry. Isolated camps can also function as detainment facilities. This was downplayed in favor of the gloss of new recreational facilities and dams creating recreational lakes.

3. From a world perspective, the camps indicated a desire of the U.S. to stay out of wars, even as American industry was selling arms to anyone who could buy.

4. The camps were AWAY from population centers and very strictly controlled with a quasi-military structure. Why?

4a. This was a period when the world was embracing communism, socialism, and fascism. The prime targets of the proselytizers were unemployed young men. Pulling that group out of the cities and into controlled manageable groups allowed oversight of them and immediate removal of the rabble rousers.

4b. Roosevelt and others saw war on the horizon, but recognized that the general population had reverted to isolationism after the horrors of WW I. By training men in use of heavy equipment and construction, and housing them in a military style encampment, the CCC camps functioned as politically correct boot camps. When war did break out, the camps were purposely dissolved to force the men either back into unemployment or the military.

A friend of mine has done a fairly extensive historical paper on one of the camps. The "only manual labor" statement is and isn't true. There are plenty of photos in his work of loaded dump trucks, dozers, the use of explosives, and civil engineering tools. The men weren't generally allowed more than minor supervisory positions, and often were moved individually between camps to prevent cliques and lasting friendships from forming.

My father was in the CCCs until WW2 where he became a Ranger Army that is. He broke paths in what is now Brice Canyon Utah. His money all but a Quarter every month was a turning point in his family well being. Pa (his father) made Moonshine and worked a farm. Times were rough in the fact that the government would love to own your farm for the Property taxes. So some money was needed.

Roosevelt "getting" us into WE2??? Seriously?
I tend to think that Japan got us into WW2

And I agree, in theory, the camps could be a good idea, but, as stated, men back then cared, now everyone is too dumb and/or lazy to care.

We could finance the "camps" with what we give away in welfare payments.

I have maintained for many years now that the US needs to have every young person register and do some sort of civil service work (training) for a few years. Since parental oversight and schooling aren't instilling the values and work ethic needed to maintain this country.

First off, Roosevelt STARTED the welfare state we have now.

Are some of you actually advocating that Roosevelt's solution for preventing revolution (amongst young, unemployed, borderline starving men with families) is the ANSWER to the welfare state we have now?

Some of you also seem to be implying that if young men would rather get food stamps than work then they should be forcibly sent to the camps.

I'm a little confused. Every other week someone posts a statement worrying that we're going to be sent to internment labor camps, but here in this thread we're advocating labor camps?

Slavery? You're admitting that you advocate slavery?

So the government enslaves children for 13 years already, can't instill the values, and YOU think that giving that young adult to the government for a few more years would solve the problem?

Do you SEE the logic problem there?

ETA:

Ok, for everyone who advocates national service because young people aren't learning enough about our country.

This country was founded on individual freedom and liberty. All of our principle documents discuss this. We even have an amendment banning slavery on the basis of race or age (which apparently some of you haven't heard of).

The fact that you are advocating this demonstrates that YOU have failed to learn the appropriate values concerning our country and that YOU are the best candidate for a few years of reeducation.

Oh, it's not slavery because they'll get paid for their time? Even Negro slaves in 1840 were "paid" for their labor by food and shelter.

I just can't stop thinking about this.

Wolf Mom, if the youth of today knew that you were advocating their forced servitude to the state, they would be COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in beating you to death in the street.

Just as any of us would be if you pulled up in our driveways with a pair of chains and a shovel to haul us off to the work camps.

The entire Negro race was enslaved wherever they could be captured because they didn't share "our values". The Native Americans apparently couldn't be captured or properly enslaved so they were exterminated.

In the Supreme Court case The United States versus The Amistad, it was decided that a free man had the natural right to defend their liberty against those who would enslave him, up to and including violence.

If this nation ever institutes national service (again), I'll lead the bloody revolution myself.

The optimal idea, would be a workfare system, rather than welfare. In other words, if you are receiving welfare funding in any form of state or federal assistance, you should have to work so many hours a week in public service.

Some teachers are taking it upon their selves to get kids into civil slavery on their own...

Here's the text for this video...

Uploaded on Oct 6, 2008
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO OBAMA ! CLICK to watch Barack's 75 SECONDS ! : ...

A middle school teacher in Missouri was suspended Monday for putting a video on YouTube of his students chanting lines from Barack Obama speeches and wearing military fatigues.

The video, called "Obama Youth -- Junior Fraternity Regiment," was posted by a YouTube user named "keepitwildtv" on Oct. 2. The school learned the video was on the Internet and took action against the teacher Monday morning.

Joyce McGautha, superintendent of the Urban Community Leadership Academy, a charter school for students in fifth through ninth grades in Kansas City, Mo., said that the video was probably taken last May during the Junior Fraternity's morning meeting at the school.

She would not disclose the teacher's name. "At this time because of the legal action that we'll probably have to take against the teacher, I'm not going to give his name," McGautha said.

Students at the school have 30-minute group sessions four times a week during which they are supposed to work on reading and writing. Once a week they are allowed to have "activities," McGautha said. There are 12 groups at the public charter school.

The Junior Fraternity students studied Obama's economic plan with the teacher, and the superintendent did not know whether the teacher or the students scripted the routine. The group should have also studied John McCain's economic plan, the superintendent said.

In the video, eighth- and ninth-graders wearing military camouflage pants and navy t-shirts chant and perform a routine in the style of a step show, a dance popular among African-American fraternities at universities.

The students enter the room chanting "Alpha. Omega. Alpha. Omega." Then, one at a time, they state things they were "inspired" to do by Barack Obama, including becoming an architect and a sheriff. At the end of the video, the students make statements about Obama's healthcare plan. "Obama's healthcare plan will be able to provide participants the ability to move from job to job without taking their healthcare coverage," one says.

"People are upset that possibly taxpayer money is being used to support one particular candidate," McGautha said, "and now I can understand that. And I didn't condone them. I try very, very hard to remain within the limits of the law. I think this is unfortunate."

She said she was aware of the video, and that many of the school's activities are recorded, but that the teacher had been warned in a letter not to put it on the Internet. If he did, she said, he should seek legal counsel.

The teacher's fate will be taken up by the charter school's board, she said.

"Certain things don't happen in public schools anyway, but there area lot of other ramifications when you take it public," McGautha said.

"As far as [the teacher is] concerned, I think he gets what was supposed to come to him. But I don't think the children should be the victims of his stupidity."

FOX NEWS .COM : http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/...

[ OCTOBER 6, 2008 ]
Category
People & Blogs

Nationalism.

Right now, the intended purpose (claimed purpose) of welfare is to give you a hand while you go forth and seek employment in the independent economy.

Your idea would essentially nationalize welfare recipients and turn them all into government employees.

How does that move them out of welfare and into private sector employment? It doesn't. It simply gives them less time available each week to provide for themselves.

Also, it pretty much means that EVERY government employee could be considered to be on workfare, only some are more skilled than others.

If the government needs people to dig ditches and build roads, let them PAY A LIVING WAGE to get it done and there will be a line of volunteers out the door.

Ernie, NO, it wouldn't male them govt employees. I think if someone had to do some hard physical work to help fund their handouts, they might get off their lazy butts and seek higher paying employment.
Much better than paying them to sit at home watching Oprah and making more babies.

I'm for ending the government handouts altogether. Let's get behind that.

But I'm somewhat cautious in this economy. There are an awful lot of hardworking people that have been forced into taking these handouts because they can't find work. And yes, while there ARE minimum wage jobs available, in most cases (and particularly if you don't live in a big urban environment with cheap public transportation), it costs you more to hold down a minimum wage job than it does to not work.

I don't think anyone is 'forced' into taking handouts. I'm pretty sure you have to apply for them. It is a choice.

Well I guess I stirred up a hornet's nest - which wasn't my intention. When writing the article for the paper, I found it interesting what was said about youth wondering the streets, crime, etc. I know that where I live near national forest with crop lands surrounding, they did do a lot of good with erosion, planting trees, etc. because so many farms had been abandoned. There's no right answer. I strongly feel, like all of you on this site, we need to be ready to take care of ourselves - no matter what happens. Let's keep doing what we're doing and share our support and ideas with each other and I'm glad to know all of you are out there......Janet

True. That is true. I guess forced isn't the right word.

Let me put it another way.

There are a lot of people who didn't prepare, either in terms of finances, goods, gardening skills, or practical labor skills ... and they suddenly found that they were of NO VALUE to the corporate world.

When they found themselves in that situation, they could not think of anywhere to turn OTHER than the government's handouts.

I'm always finicky about calling everyone on welfare a loser, a taker, a thief, or whatever the current denigration is. There are people on this very forum who are receiving welfare but are trying to learn their way out of that system, and I absolutely applaud their efforts and wish to help them in any way possible.

I think most people are aware that, sooner or later, the handouts have to cease. And what then?

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/09/...k-for-welfare/

It appears, in Michigan, you're now going to be required to do community service in order to continue receiving welfare benefits.

How does that work, exactly? Much of the food stamp program is money that comes from the Federal government. What right does an individual state have to get in between the Fed and the receiver of those Federal funds?

I saw that same piece this morning Ernie and marveled (maybe not the right word) at the use of "required" and "volunteer" in the same sentence.

quit WASTING a trillion $ a year on a worthless military and spy establishment. quit wasting a trillion $ a year,letting 20 million illegals steal jobs here and live off of our taxes (counting "amnesties" and those whose illegal mother dropped them here) quit WASTING a trillion $ a year on "free" medical care for people so messed up that they'll NEVER get better.

Quit wasting a trillion $ a year on people who SHOULD have been saving for their own retirement needs (or else suicide and quit being a burden on everybody else). stop wasting a trillion $ a year on corporate welfare, including farms and ranches. Quit WASTING a trillion $ a year on stupid drug laws, enforcement of same, and on prosecution of those who steal and fight over the profit you PUT INTO drugs, because they are illegal.

Presto. Now you have the money needed to get rid of the national debt, QUICKLY, and saving the interest on THAT means another trillion or so $ per year saved. Use that savings to teach the kids needed skills and DISCIPLINE. Also, use some of it to pay young women to get sterilized and SEAL OUR BORDERS. Put employers of illegal aliens on national tv, 24-7, as they get horsewhipped nearly to death,and SEE how many of the illegals don't leave!

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

STOP letting in unskilled immigrants. INSTEAD, actively RECRUIT medical and other key personnel! WHY pay some MD a million $ a year, when you can get the same skill level for 100k per year, by bringing him from overseas? Why pay nurses 60k a year, when you can get them for 20k a year, etc? Why bother to pay 1/2 million $ to educate and raise a kid, when you can get the (trained, disciplined) adult for the cost of a plane ticket?

we do NOT need the fruit picker types. Fruit and veggies are such a small part of our diet that if the cost of gathering/moving them TRIPLED, it would not increase our food per year expense $1000, a lousy $20 per week. yet to get rid of the crowding, pollution, crime and waste is worth 10x that much. We can make (in the US) machines that pick the crops, run by US personnel. what the point of "saving" 1k per year on food, then wasting 10k a year on undesirables and overpaid medical and other 'high tech" people, hmm?

There are several assistance programs. Some fed and some state. The requirement you speak of was from this Michigan bill.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-SEBS-0276.htm

If you read the bill, it applies to people on the "PATH" program which is a state program, not federal.

Ah. That explains it. So a person's fed benefits would not be impacted but they could lose part of their Michigan bennies.

I'll trust you on the bill. No way I'm reading that.

The federal food stamp program is now called SNAP. In it there are requirements that if your are an ABAWD (Able-Bodied Adult Without Dependents) you may have to work. It has been that way for a while. However Obama has suspended that requirement in about 45 states.
Here is information on SNAP:

http://massresources.org/snap-work-requirements.html

From SNAP documents:

Generally ABAWDS between 18 and 50 who do not have any dependent children can get SNAP benefits only for 3 months in a 36-month period if they do not work or participate in a workfare or employment and training program other than job search. This requirement is waived in some locations.
With some exceptions, able-bodied adults between 16 and 60 must register for work, accept suitable employment, and take part in an employment and training program to which they are referred by the local office. Failure to comply with these requirements can result in disqualification from the Program.

Dixie Bee is exactly what I've been saying.

If someone wants/needs a welfare check, they should be working part-time for government projects to "earn" it. Since it's part-time, they still have plenty of time to find a "real job" other than the government check. The jobs would be things that perhaps illegal immigrants do now. Or paperwork in offices about those jobs. Or daycare for the people getting the handouts that are out doing the other work.

So it's not taking many paid jobs(illegals would not have the work anymore too, maybe easier to get them out of the country), the people ON welfare have incentive to find a real job(they don't like digging ditches, picking fruit, babysitting, etc), and it doesn't really cost much more than handing out the checks(the system that's in place now) for NO work or effort on the part of the "needy" people.

Save some money, get people off the easy-welfare-free-money, and get some decent work done, while discouraging illegal immigrant labor.

It's not "forced labor" that way either, you'd still go apply for the welfare, you'd just be doing some work to earn that welfare check. You're not locked up in a camp, or forced to be someplace. Just like a regular job, you can walk off anytime you want. You just don't get your check.

Pipe dream? Probably. It solves too many issues.

any of these camps were around people and in the city. Public Parks and road were built by them. They were not as successful as once thought. They did pick up the economy for a short time, but financial repercussions followed.

See post #33