Firefighters - A cut in services
 

As local governments become more and more bankrupt, I expect more of this to happen (old news story):

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-75-city-fee/1

Apparently folks living in the rural areas have to pay a fee to participate in fire protection. The firefighters came out and watched while the guy's house burned down. Apparently they were pretty serious about that fee.

I'm not a huge fan of firefighters. I think most of them join the fire department after they flunk out of police academy, but it IS a community service that has to be paid for one way or another.

As local governments cut budgets, are you prepared to put out a small fire in your home before it becomes a large one?

It might even save you from the problem a friend of mine had. A kitchen fire caused him about $200 worth of damage to his kitchen, but when the fire department showed up they took an axe to his door, cut through a series of walls, and caused about $4000 worth of water damage to the rest of the house.

Probably best to take care of those things yourself, eh?

Why should rural folks freeload when those in organized fire districts pay taxes for their service?

Decided to delete my post

If your friend really was able to take care of things himself the fire dept wouldn't have shown up.

And deciding when something is past saving is often a dilemma for rural people because it take so long for the fire trucks to get there. Often all they can do is prevent other buildings from going up as well. We get handouts(with the prop tax bill) every year about fire safety(including wilderness/forest fire) and folks who have a pond near the house get some sort of insurance perk. That's another thing, wells dont' often have enough flow to support a fire truck--they often have to make a decision to triage where the water goes.

Assuming that rural folks everywhere have to pay a "fee" is also incorrect.

I usually refrain from posting here, however this is too much. As a former firefighter, I can tell you that your thoughts on firefighters being "flunkies" are completely out of line and you do not have any reliable source to back this up with.

Firefighters are NOT police academy flunkies as much as you think or wish they would be. I am sure if your house was on fire, you would not hesitate to call 911 or would you simply let your house burn down because you don't want "flunkies" trying to help you?


There are several other former and current firefighters here on HT who will also take great exception to your post...thanks for insulting all of us.

Do your homework and don't make assumptions.

I live in an extremely remote location. We have a volunteer fire dept where there are ZERO paid firemen. We have to pay a membership fee or the fire dept (composed of US and our neighbors) does not provide service to us in case of fire. They will come out and watch the fire burn to prevent the fire from escaping to other properties who have paid the membership fees.

Now, lets look at how fair that is...

As a property owner, my taxes has a line where I pay for fire dept tax for the people who live in town. In addition to supporting the town fire dept. I also have to pay extra to support my local rural fire dept.

So give credit where credit is due. Because I live rural, I pay double. Once for the people in town, then again for my local rural fire dept.

When you know the facts you'll see that us rural folks are NOT freeloaders. In fact, the town people are freeloading OUR fire dept tax dollars so we have to pay twice so our local volunteer fire dept has funds to provide services to us. What's fair about that???

Kari--thanks for your service--I appreicate it:) My firefighter hubby is not a police flunk out either and in fact I don't know a fireman that is a police flunk out, I do however know 2 police officers that flunked out of the fire academy.

Ernie that town you wouldn't believe the stupid or nepuetisim that goes on :awh: One his boys went down to City Hall and trashed a few cats too .

Saw one his boys the other day but didn't get a chance to talk . And trust me the cops in that town make the laws as they go and the judge backs them up . Know of one case went to Fed . court the town lost . If you bought me a house in that town and gave it to me i would wonder what i did to make you mad at me .:run:

Ernie, my bet is your local FD would love to have more members. Join up. The fire department in most places is like a big family made up of a group of dedicated civic minded individuals.

I like volunteer firefighters, and I like fire extinguishers in every room in the house.

Subscription fire service is common in many parts of the country. This guy was well aware that he had let his fire subscription lapse, so he got exactly what he paid for.

If you let your insurance lapse do you expect them to pay if you need something?

Brilliant analogy. You understand the situation perfectly.

We pay dues to 2 different rural departments because we are right on the line. I think paying $20 to each one is worth it. A lot of the guys are my relatives & friends.

I don't even see a point here. 99.9% of people here believe in self-reliance and taking care of their own needs as much as possible. A pay fire department is NOT a new thing, it goes back to Roman times. Ben Franklin had one. I paid the fees for one. It isn't rocket science. You don't pay, oh well. Cheese and rice. Whadda ya expect? To have it both ways?

This had also been discussed before. This man had not paid his subscription for several years if I remember correctly. These firefighters were volunteer. If they chose to fight the fire in defiance of the policy and got hurt the little coverage the town had on them would not have paid. No health payments, no income at all while recovering. This man knew that if he did not pay he would not receive services because he lived outside the town limits. The town does not have to offer this service at all to those outside the limits but does at what is really a very small fee.

My husband is a volunteer firefighter. The coverage our town has will pay for the medical benefits and about $150.00 a week in pay. He earns 3 times that normally (hourly worker). If he violated the policy like that we would have to pay any medical out of pocket, not receive anything while he was off and Lord forbid he should die fighting off policy because then the firemens insurance and our life insurance would not pay.

Now why should he risk that on top of what he already risks for someone who had the money but could not be bothered to pay $75 a year to support the department.

I was commenting on the OP's statement: "Apparently folks living in the rural areas have to pay a fee to participate in fire protection. The firefighters came out and watched while the guy's house burned down. Apparently they were pretty serious about that fee."

Here our rural areas depend upon local towns with fire depts for fire suppression. It does cost them a small upfront fee for that service.

Not all places have the same set up if you know the facts.

all of our Fire Departments here are volunteer departments.

I pay more than $100.00 a year in donations to the department because it's worthwhile to me to keep the department alive.

I also don't live outside the reality that most of the equipment we have is because of some federal grant money that was made available at some point or the other.

My house is heated with a Wood Burning stove. A LOT of houses around here are... and every year someone's house burns down or catches on fire.

Anywhere you go, that has any sort of organization structure, you are going to have a super-geek or two, who attempt to gain some fame or notoriety through their chosen organization... and you're going to have drama. The VFD is a lot like a high school in that respect. This person is mad at that person, etc, but when a FIRE happens, that all goes out the window, when an EMT is needed, no one minds if it's the family that keeps their house like a dump, etc.

People are people, they are messy and dirty. I am a person. I am messy and dirty. Thank God he loved me in spite of myself.

I know here locally, some volunteer departments have started to bill auto insurance companies when they respond to a motor vehicle acccident.

My dad is a retired fire chief and I think he would agree with this. It's old news, but the guy deserved what he got. He deliberately flaunted the fee. It's not like he was some poor shack monger with no way to pay.

I pay a yearly fee for my place down south, and I don't even live there. Big deal. It's chump change compared to our house insurance. Besides, how else are all those VOLUNTEERS supposed to buy equipment and such?
They are volunteers, the guy is not entitled. Their services aren't his right to have. It's a dirty shame it went down like that, but life's not fair and people, in the end, get what they ask for.

I don't know that I have a problem with his house burning down. I also will concede that not all full-time firefighters are cut from the same cloth as what I have seen around here.

Bottom line though, almost every state and local government is in debt up past their eyeballs and the Federal government can't help them out much longer either.

Better start thinking about personal fire suppression and safety now.

As another former firefighter, I can tell you that most professionals are well educated. It is not easy getting passed the hiring boards for a professional fire department. And the education continues throughout their careers. Many are also required to be licensed paramedics now. I myself have a Masters in Fire Science and I did maintain a paramedic license, and there were other firefighters on my professional fire department who were more highly educated in the field.

That being said, your point about being able to handle small fires yourself is a good one, especially for rural people. If you can knock the fire down early you may just save your house. Here's a good company that sells firefighting equipment to homeowners, mainly for defending your home against wildland fires, but could also be used for interior attacks: http://www.homefirefightingsystems.com/.

I will second that hands down!! I lived in So. Fulton for approximately 5 years... and all I can say is WOW.... I know there are good people living there, but the government and officials of that town and of Fulton KY make life very difficult for everyone!! So glad to be outta there and living here!

We have all volunteer fire departments in all the small towns around me. We don't pay any extra fee, it is included in our property taxes. The small town (pop:1600) I live outside of just built a brand new fire station. Looks like one you would see in a big city (at least to me it does). They were operating out of a 2 bay garage.

All the VFD around here support each other and back each other up if they need help. Just last week in another town (pop:4000) we had 2 fire trucks responding to a call crash as they were trying to get into the driveway. 5 firefighters were hurt including the chief. One has 2 broken legs and is having surgery again today. They were all serious injuries but not life threatening but they will be out of work for awhile.

The VFD that my son-in-law is on in another town (pop:450) is the one that backed them up and responded to the initial call. My daughter is a full time EMT and they responded to take care of the injured. My SIL is also an EMT and can sub if they need it. All of his certifications he does for the fire department is paid by him, all out of pocket.

Well we beat this to death back when it happened . I know the whole bunch :bow: This is State Line area a 911 call is anyones guess on who you get .
There are a dozen or more fire depts in a fifty mile radius i counted them .This town is ran by Larry ,Moe & Curly the workers at City Hall is Darell, Darell & his other brother Darell.

Another house in the area caught fire and the responding Dept said by law they had to put it out the man said let it burn they didn't . :icecream:

This was not a budget deal it was a big shot power deal . Also in this area a fender bender will get you a ambulance, EMS, and the Fire Dept if you want it or not . They want money :teehee:

Next my house insurance will pay a $500.00 fire call

That town is broke dew to stupid not even a gas station there two places left to get a job other than the City which has a Few MILLION dollar municipal complex . They need to give it back to the county but don't think they want it .

All City positions are filled by who you know .

If i have a fire and you don;t help stand in the neighbors yard that is a quarter mile away any closer might be to hot :whistlin:

Wait a minute ... the two trucks crashed into each other as they were going into the driveway?

As a very proud wife of a firefighter/paramedic/haz-mat technician with double CPR instructor accreditation, I'm sure you know what my thoughts are to the insult.

Continuing education, bi-monthly training exercises in multiple situations is only a part of this department. There is little room for "flunkies" as you say, each firefighters life depends on those around him.

I'll not continue commenting, because as another PP said, this is close to my heart. But I will say, in painting with cheap paint and a broad brush sir, a lot sure shows through.

Yes, the first truck missed the driveway, then had to find a place to turn around and head back, the second truck came from the same station but went out a few minutes later. (remember, volunteers! had to wait for the rest). It was 4am so still dark. The driveway is kinda hidden and on a slight curve and downhill. They hit almost head on, but not quite. I know the road very, very well, and when they showed it on TV and I saw the stretch of road and driveway I knew who the owner of the home was that was on fire even before they said it. They later interviewed him on the local news.

And yes, I had the same thought when I heard it. Unfortunately, I think in the end they will find one or both of them at fault. The second truck most likely saw the headlights of the first truck but didn't know that they had missed the driveway and had to turn around. Second truck was probably going faster than they should have and with them going down hill may not have been able to stop in time when they saw the lights of the first truck. The fire chief was probably trying to get there faster as he knew the owner, too. We all grew up and went to school together.

They haven't released any findings on the accident yet but with the SIL being on the VFD and my daughter an EMT I will hear about the findings, even if unofficial.

I think you might eat your words before this thread goes by the wayside. My dad was not a flunky. He was a volunteer for years before he got on. Then he had to do 5 years in an ambulance. He retired a chief, with extensive master training in haz-mat and bomb disablement. His last 10 years or so, some people could say he was pushing pencils at a desk, but the reality is he was flying all over the country teaching haz-mat to newbies and bomb disablement to the navy. That was after spending 25 years in burning buildings, raising 3 kids on his own.
He spent his 10 days in New York digging body parts out of the rubble, and he spent a number of years being a fire jumper. His entire career he was a member of Indy Task Force One and flew out at the drop of a hat any time there was a national emergency. He is 5'4" and might weigh 140 on a fat day.

I have a great deal of respect for my dad. He was a very devoted firefighter. In 35 years, he only missed one scheduled day of work, and it was in the last couple for emergency surgery for a kidney stone. He cried.

In 2002, I went out for the department. There were 102 applicants. 96 men and 6 women. I placed 6th. It was by far the hardest physical thing I have ever done.

Firefighting is dangerous and it's no joke. Don't knock it till you try it a time or two dozen.

Sigh. Clearly all fire departments are not to be judged by the buffoons in my local area. I retract my statement, bow to public opinion and issue forth a heartfelt apology.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_A1LOY4WLAK...oneofshame.jpg

I'm sure glad everything worked out on this thread.

I bet some areas of the country have less effective volunteers than the other areas. That is what I gather from the posts here.

Angie

Had you just left out the insult to start with, you could have made your point just fine. But as it is, nearly everyone missed the point.

The mouth runs away with the fingers sometimes.

Yeah, I know. I do it regularly myself. I was just disappointed the way the thread went because I thought it was a good point for preparedness, not only because local governments are broke, but because so many people here live far enough out that the fire departments will get there too late anyway.

Its really a shame that people have to be forced to pay a yearly fee to keep the departments open. If it wasn't mandatory in a lot of areas, no one would contribute and there wouldn't be fire service at all.

Doesn't it make you wonder how people survived back in the days when all the homes were made out of wood, they'd never invented flame-retardant building materials, and all fire departments were on a volunteer basis?

Ernie, if it makes you feel any better, ANY fire dept that would not help a person in need is not much of a department. I never saw an incident where anybody that I knew could have not helped their neighbor or friend regardless of any tax or monies due to any department. It just don't happen in this neck of the woods. Brothers helping brothers !

Apology excepted,
Tarheel
Retired 16 years ago (Fireman)

Oh no...the cone of shame...

Apology accepted...thank you...

Those were the days when a whole town could burn. Virginia City, near Lake Tahoe, is one such. Almost all the buildings date to 1871 I believe it is, they were rebuilt after a major fire. San Francisco mostly burned after the big earthquake. Even Laura Ingalls Wilder lost her first home to a fire started from the cookstove. Fire prevention and suppression has come a long way.