The Schaeffer Cox verdict

Pouncer · #1 06/19/12, 08:06 AM

I'd imagine most members here have not heard about this case. A verdict was handed down yesterday:

Militiamen found guilty, face long sentences: Breaking News | Alaska news at adn.com

I'd like to have a reasoned discussion about whether or not "militias" (in their many forms) are truly seen as "right wing wacko" organizations, or a moral imperative in our times. Many knowledgeable (law professors, attorneys, educated lay people) folks felt that the prosecution would not be able to make their case.

(Angie, if this is the wrong place, feel free to move it)

And this should serve as a warning about all interactions as they relate to our Second Amendment.

stamphappy · #2 06/19/12, 08:49 AM

I believe mainstream media paints militias as right wing wackos and hence the majority of Americans are led to believe that.

But in this case these guys weren't just meeting and planning their economic downturn ideas. They "threatened a judge, showed up at a troopers house, threatened his family, made hit lists. That is not just 'anti-government rhetoric'." I agree with this poster, these guys crossed the line.

Many revolutions start just like this. At what point is it a 2nd Amendment or 1st Amendment right and when does it cross the line to illegeal activity? Hit lits? Threatening officers and judges? Showing up at an officers house?

Also, weren't we discussing something a few months ago about the POTUS and didn't he push something that stated we no longer have the right to gather and talk about anything against the govenment? I think it was Easyday that brought it to our attention.

fordy · #3 06/19/12, 08:57 AM

.................It amazes me how completely , Stupid , the leader of this group , was ! Don't make verbal threats , don't issue declarations of "We Will.........." and we have.........x , xxx men armed and ready to fight ! You might as well just drive a round with a red flag on your vehicle !
.................Anyone with any sense should realize that for there to be a national revolt against established authority and a potential armed rebellion by ordinary citizens , demonstrations of Illegal use of Authority by both state and federal law enforcement will probably need too occur ! These events will then become the Critical Mass of the cumulative effect of such over reaching actions which will cause the 'push back' by armed citizens on a national basis . , fordy

Laura · #4 06/19/12, 11:00 AM

Rule #1 as taught by my Dad:

Don't do and say stupid things with stupid people.

It has served me well.

Pouncer · #5 06/19/12, 11:19 AM

I am rather surprised that no one has understood the risk this verdict represents. Of course, this is just my opinion and these days, it's pretty much worthless

Here's my point: Here on HT, and on many other forums, BBs, blogs, and online media of all kinds, including many thousands of FB pages-people do express their dissatisfaction with the administration. Most of us have made statements that would qualify for prosecution under the statutes used to condemn young Mr. Cox.

How many comments have you read about shooting down drones, for example?

How many times have you stated, or read someone's statement, that says basically: They'll take my guns from my cold, dead, fingers (or similar)?

Just think it through: We can no longer assemble in protest of our elected government. And we can no longer talk about it either. With NDAA, they could just as easily whisked away the defendants here, never to be heard from again.

Oh and one other note: The rat, in this case, is Fulton. Interesting history, Mr. Fulton has.

mnn2501 · #6 06/19/12, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Cox was convicted of soliciting the murder of a U.S. officer

This is the one you really can't do.

tgmr05 · #7 06/19/12, 12:05 PM

Based on this, A BUNCH of OWS folks should be in prison....

Ozarks Tom · #8 06/19/12, 06:57 PM

The first and second ammendments are only useful if we are ALLOWED to use them.

The guy did some stupid things, and he probably should pay for them, but a lot of what I read, piles of semi-autos, ammo, aren't illegal and were presented purely for emotional value. The groups he was part of/started, are just free association. I guess the old advice "stay away from crowds" still holds.

stamphappy · #9 06/19/12, 08:32 PM

I thought the convictions were conspiring to murder a judge and illegal guns. I didn't think the convictions were assembling?

Pouncer · #10 06/20/12, 09:01 AM

The weapons were legal, except the machine gun was not registered and he hadn't paid the $200 tax. Several charges related to "suppressors", or "silencers". A couple charges related to possession, and conspiracy to possess, explosive devices.

He was, by all accounts, an eloquent and impassioned speaker. He was easily lead by the informants, that's for sure...it doesn't take much to push someone over that fine line when you're already paranoid. Naturallly, this is being discussed a bit locally, and most believe he got what he deserved.

From my point of view, all these guys did was talk. Just like we do here on HT every day. Some people here have magnitudes greater arsenels, explosives, extensive stores of ammo, and so forth.

The only thing that separates Mr Cox from them, is prosecution. JMO.

Sawmill Jim · #11 06/20/12, 10:02 AM

How many on HT do you think has un tax stamp machine guns

How many do you thing gather to discuss bumping off known judges or other law officers

Only the chronic stupid have illegal weapons of any kind in their house or even visit people that do .

JMO

Pouncer · #12 06/20/12, 07:24 PM

The weapon itself was legal, it just wasn't registered-or the tax paid. One of the other guys reputedly made up the "hit list". This is how poorly the facts were reported.

Sawmill Jim · #13 06/20/12, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pouncer

The weapon itself was legal, it just wasn't registered-or the tax paid. One of the other guys reputedly made up the "hit list". This is how poorly the facts were reported.

Not having that tax stamp makes possession of the gun illegal also an extensive background check thus in laymen terms illegal gun .

Also i bet the news don't know the whole story .

kasilofhome · #14 06/21/12, 01:13 AM

What makes an illegal immigrant able to qualify for the "work papers" if each person must not be illegal?

Sorry but I never got to hear him speak and I have learned that he had done a lot of interviews and was very open as to his views going on local radio shows prior to the arrest. Suddenly he was news --of Matter-- yet for sometime he was just a local with strong views. I never heard him and yet a friend in radio who did interviews with him was quite shocked. She found him to be very educated in the facts of the constitution, and government. Her take of it was He was firm in his beliefs and vocal. She was quite surprised that he knew and spoke so well on such deep subjects for a person of college age.

I do not know if he got the shaft as we are having judicial misconduct issues in our fair state. Think Ted stevens, David haeg, and another one that deals with a person acting on behalf of the legal system forging (proven by handwriting exp approved by the court with out the court prior to the court's knowledge of WHO's really wrote it--the result was to drop all charges that involved the document to make it a case were a request for a jury by trial could NOT be requested. I personally know 2 of men involved in court cases I have mentioned. I know longer know what to think. Could Cox have been set up? I know two that have so it is possible. Stevens (and I was not a supporter as He loved federal Pork money for our State) was found to have be taken down and many think that it was to boost Mark (seal the deal for healthcare) Beige..

I just do not know, I have not heard information I would need to form a balance, impartial just the fact opinion. The DA really dug for any charges- but littering- it seems.

I wonder if they became an example to train us to conform or were they dangerous. I do not know the facts only what I have been spoon fed by the media. The guns to do not worry me --If he stole them yes I see a problem but no charges of stealing gun stuff so it is just a tax and paperwork deal and to me that is a lot less of a issue to the welfare of the population. Where is the privacy in living buy cold med and they need Id (to protect us) sell live stock (Nais) file paperwork (to protect us) --But voting --no id (to protect WHO) --I just do not know where the line is that crosses over from self relent to a public enemy. It should be clearer to me but what stands out to me is

It was his publicly stating his views that caused him to become a person of interest --I want to hear ideas and view points I like to learn. Is this a gag warning I wonder..........Am I correct that he NEVER harmed anyone---what about the fort Hood guy he did. Are words killing people no. Is he misunderstood ? I really wish I knew --That Ted deal really was such a dirty set up it has tainted my willingness to take the medias offerings as fact.

Old Vet · #15 06/21/12, 07:26 AM

To be a successful rebel you must break laws. To be a successful rebel you need some people on your side. Those that fought in the reptilian in this country were thought as traders until they one. I don't even thought they even had the idea of starting a revolution but they wanted to be left alone even though they had tax troubles and broke many laws. I am not saying that laws are good but if you don't like them get them change instead of breaking a bunch of them. All of the laws they broke were in the books before they were even born.

kasilofhome · #16 06/22/12, 07:13 PM

6.50 am in Anchorage is doing a radio show with the lawyer of this trial. it should be on the internet.

This is a FYI notice.