Supremely defensible !

rickfrosty · #1 05/13/12, 07:32 PM

Well, it turned into a 'flack-fest' when I posted this over at SingleTree, so I'll tweak it a little. Danned people read so much they just skim & jump to the most ridiculous conclusions ?!

I am falling in love w/the idea of a 100+ acre hardwood lot that has about 40 acres at top of the hill it's all on - a perfect place for a retreat/farm (yes, a bit of a doomer). Price is good - they will owner-finance. Tax not bad.

I have been looking off & on for partners for several owned properties I have here in safe corner of (one of ) safest states (ME), but nothing is really ready for farming (other than big garden, rabbits & chickens), really need to find female partner to make solid base first.
I have studied what is needed for a long time, have good ideas & know pretty much what to do. If it's my land I will pretty much call the shots, but that is not to say that I don't make mistakes, or that I'm always right. Will propose, listen, then decide.

This 'calling the shots' part got me in a poop-fest. I mean that if you know more than me on a subject, then you can be in charge of that. Like planting apple trees, or raising pigs/goats, etc., or training steers to pull, BUT a long time ago I once owned half of an old decommissioned brick Synogogue in Portlandia, ME that was to be rehabbed into sort of communal housing for a few folks I was associated with at that time. Holy Cow ! They all went in there in different directions & began to rip up everything, you know, w/no concerted plan !!?? It was awfull !
Anyway, I bailed, & now that land is a huge million $ parking lot in the middle of the city (or last I knew).
I learned that with a group of people trying to do something together, then 1 to 3 people prolly need to be driving the bus, not have a big unwieldy democracy ?! Just lay out a rough plan in the beginning & if you don't like it, then go find another place & plan that you like better.
When the poop hits the paddle somebody, or a couple somebodies (maybe a man & woman) have to be guiding the vision of a group effort at a retreat farm, don't you think ?

If I scrimp & save, and locate a defensible place big enough to support enough people to defend it, go into debt to buy it, and I do have a fairly clear vision of how things should work, then I am not going to be interested in having my partners all arguing ad-infinitum about how every danned thing will be done - would you ?

As to partners - what I want is long-term, hopefully friends for life. If I depend on good partners I must treat them well, make sure they don't feel too thwarted. If we are not all happy together, then after the worst times perhaps there will be a lot of places & opportunities for folks who want to move on.

Land I'm looking at is just down out of these mtns. for a little longer growing season - has firewood for life for plenty of people & plenty to sell - growing well after softwood cut several years ago. Maple for sugar too. Covered w/raspberries & blackberries to feast on ! A small stream or 2 to dig out a fish pond & for hydro power. A huge fertile hayfield across the road & then a river w/brown trout in it.
Has nice diagonal drive up the bank off 2 lane blacktop w/power & a huge place where DOT dumped & levelled 40 thousand yards of fill from road project, so great, great place to get started, a lay-down yard, a place to build inititially (maybe temporary housing), garage/workshop/storage lockup. Gate the road at bottom of drive.

These many feet of extra depth of gravel will go to take the best skidder trail & change it into a road up to the more level, farmable land at the top of the hill.

Most existing farms are right on a road & not very defensible at all.

Along the state road by the land is a high bank, so no one can see anything on the land from the road, also good chance for heavy duty fencing, and warning devices there so baddy people can't get up on the land easily.
Very, very defensible, all in all. Surrounded by other huge wooded properties.

If our money will become cripplingly inflated, then why not invest in 100 acres of firewood that will always be in demand here & go up in value ?

I would love to harvest this w/a couple of draft ponies or oxen & make a farm at the top of the land w/my excavator & ponies/pigs/goats. Build an earth-sheltered house or 2 (easily used for fallout sheltering too !).

No zoning in this township - last census says 410 residents.- 15 mi. from a bigger (only 4000+ plus) town w/state college, ag stores & nice farmer's market - a pretty 'greeny/hippy' town which also has all Walmarts, KFC/TacoBell/VIP auto, radio shack, etc. etc. & good hospital - Tractor Supply Co. - a very helpfull county extension service for all ag questions.
And hardly any crime - ME rated one of safest states, and buffered by other safest states !
Not too far from little resort village where I now live to get odds & ends of work - still have all construction skills, tools & equipment. An old non-roadable dump truck & something to load it will be needed to transport gravel too , so if anyone had $ to invest in this ? It is possible that I'd consider selling a portion of this to partners too, it is big enough - but we've really got to be like-minded ? Get a 2nd hand travel trailer to get started with. People sell them cheap now, and they are set up w/12 volt lights,fridges, or can run off propane too . I have an idea about putting one in a solar garage w/living space & space for a woodstove for winter, then later you have a nice garage/barn/workshop - and trailer can be re-purposed.

I have about 4-5 sources of $ each month, so will have time to work the land & build stuff/farm. One monthly check will pay mortgage on land, then I get a balloon pmnt. in 3 yrs. to pay balloon on land so no debt again.
Well, gone on long enough - anyone interested ?

And you know, if you are just a small-minded hater w/nothing but crap to dump on this thread because of your snap assumptions, please just keep it bottled up inside yourself ? What ever happened to 'the benefit of the doubt' in our culture/society ? Why assume somebody is stupid & their ideas are all messed up ??

AngieM2 · #2 05/13/12, 07:50 PM

I'm going to have to read this a few times to take it all in.

rickfrosty · #3 05/13/12, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngieM2

I'm going to have to read this a few times to take it all in.

I know, it's long.

Wags · #4 05/14/12, 08:07 PM

Its not just long Rick - its that its rambling rant without any breaks for paragraphs. I tried to read it but kept getting lost about half way through it.

AngieM2 · #5 05/14/12, 09:12 PM

Okay - I just added some spacing so it is easier to read.

kasilofhome · #6 05/14/12, 10:06 PM

Very nice --but I am NOT moving ever again. I even have my own graveyard I am staying put. But nice and I think I see where you are comming from.

AngieM2 · #7 05/14/12, 10:34 PM

Okay - I've read it a few times, and I think I get your vision.

I think to get it done you're going to have to have the land, and then as you find the right people extend your hand and land offer. But, I think there has to be some more than just a place to live, under your ultimate say so, for others that are of the mind set to do this, would want to do it with you.

I am thinking of "Deep Winter" and how the neighborhood develops. Have you read that book? I think in "Shattered" is where the neighborhood group near the "hero family" starts to be fleshed out and how the criteria was developed. I think that reading that and considering it, may be of benefit in establishing something philosophically similar on the land you are talking about.

As for someone such as myself, where I MIGHT be interested it's too far from where I am, and family is here and I'm not sure how I'd acclimate to Maine and it's growing seasons and needed winter clothing. (I might do very well as I lived in the UP of Michigan for 18 months long ago, and loved it).

Also, the strong individuals have to have some reason to want to do this with you, and have some reason to respect you as leader and not just because you own the land. That is something that needs some work, from this first posting.

Did I read over that a person going in would have a title to their land or a life time lease for their family and direct descendents? I like the part where you are suggesting some may buy land near this parcel you like and being like minded. Almost like settling an old west town.

I have to think some more on this. Your concept is interesting, but it would take a very special group to pull it off.

Sonshine · #8 05/14/12, 10:39 PM

I believe your best bet would be to find people you already know and trust. It's kind of hard for people that are independent, like those here, to just up and move to someone else's land when they don't know that person personally.

rickfrosty · #9 05/15/12, 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=AngieM2;5898421]Okay - I've read it a few times, and I think I get your vision.

Did I read over that a person going in would have a title to their land or a life time lease for their family and direct descendents? I like the part where you are suggesting some may buy land near this parcel you like and being like minded. Almost like settling an old west town.

No, I said I'd consider selling a portion of this land to like-minded partners if I got to know them & they liked my plans, but there are regulations here (& most places) about what can be sold & how many dwellings constitute a 'subdivision' which is a lot more complicated/expensive.
Angie, thank you for your comments & your consideration of what is of course just an idea thrown out here.
Thanks also for putting in some spacing, I know I do tend to run on.

rickfrosty · #10 05/15/12, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

I believe your best bet would be to find people you already know and trust. It's kind of hard for people that are independent, like those here, to just up and move to someone else's land when they don't know that person personally.

Well, thanks, but easier said than done . One of the beauty parts of this area is that there aren't all that many people, so hard to choose partners from the few local folks I already know - thus my post in this huge survivalist/prep forum.
I have been trying to interest my family for some time, but it only goes as far as getting together to shoot.

MichaelK! · #11 05/15/12, 12:12 PM

From what I read it's my understanding that what you've found is the dream property you want but can't afford, so you want partners to fork up the cash but let you make all decisions. Is that about right?

My recommendation is to buy within your means and then you'll have the absolute right to make decisions as the sole owner. I wouldn't expect others to foot the bill for "my vision"!

AngieM2 · #12 05/15/12, 12:23 PM

Rick -

come back and with paragraph breaks tell us what you envision to be the specific selling points for someone to do this with you.

And - it does seem that you need finances from them to be part of this amazing land find.

So - what is to their advantage to do this? (and even if in the opening post, clarify a little better and more directly)

goatlady · #13 05/15/12, 02:00 PM

what is to their advantage to do this?

Absolutely a question that needs to be answered. It would also help LOTS to know that you already have a DETAILED plan of development and that you know how many "partners" would be needed to aid in this development AND what specific skills/contributions are you seeking? What specific monetary obligations are you envisioning for these "Partners?" For how long? What specifically do these "partners" recoup/gain from their investments of time and $$ when the property is paid off? What happens if after 5 years or so a partner wants to move on? LOTS of questions to be addressed adequately before you can expect any serious responses to your present offer which as it stands now is way too open ended and vague. Approach this venture just like you would be approaching a bank for a business loan - have your plan all worked out allowing for some variables, but have a definite, specific plan of development so folks have a way to get necessary to them information.

rickfrosty · #14 05/15/12, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelK!

From what I read it's my understanding that what you've found is the dream property you want but can't afford, so you want partners to fork up the cash but let you make all decisions. Is that about right?

My recommendation is to buy within your means and then you'll have the absolute right to make decisions as the sole owner. I wouldn't expect others to foot the bill for "my vision"!

Wrong ! I can afford it - it isn't expensive.
The idea is that a person alone can't be on guard all the time.
You are one of the people who skim an OP.

rickfrosty · #15 05/15/12, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngieM2

Rick -

come back and with paragraph breaks tell us what you envision to be the specific selling points for someone to do this with you.

And - it does seem that you need finances from them to be part of this amazing land find.

So - what is to their advantage to do this? (and even if in the opening post, clarify a little better and more directly)

I gave the selling points if somebody can hold a post that long all in their head .
I do NOT need finances, but am willing to have contributing partners - they actually just dropped the price. The OP was assuming I would foot the whole bill. If ya help buy then ya get more 'say'.
I said that some sort of loader and old dump truck would be necessary to build the road needed to the more level land on the top if somebody wanted to chip in.
I'm getting tired of the bashing by folks who don't trouble to digest the post. (Not necessarily you Ang.)

rickfrosty · #16 05/15/12, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goatlady

what is to their advantage to do this?

Absolutely a question that needs to be answered. It would also help LOTS to know that you already have a DETAILED plan of development and that you know how many "partners" would be needed to aid in this development AND what specific skills/contributions are you seeking? What specific monetary obligations are you envisioning for these "Partners?" For how long? What specifically do these "partners" recoup/gain from their investments of time and $$ when the property is paid off? What happens if after 5 years or so a partner wants to move on? LOTS of questions to be addressed adequately before you can expect any serious responses to your present offer which as it stands now is way too open ended and vague. Approach this venture just like you would be approaching a bank for a business loan - have your plan all worked out allowing for some variables, but have a definite, specific plan of development so folks have a way to get necessary to them information.

LOL, easy for you to say - I was hoping for suggestions, instead of all the critisisms - the post was too long for most folks as it was !

coolrunnin · #17 05/15/12, 05:40 PM

It is an interesting concept. Have you thought of setting it up as a mutual assistance group?

bourbonred · #18 05/15/12, 09:14 PM

Balloon payments make me queasy!! Cause my security gland to throb.

lonelyfarmgirl · #19 05/16/12, 06:59 AM

You have an awesome idea Rick. We have considered Maine for so long, but the one thing that has stopped us every time is the distance from my family. Well, the distance from everywhere for that matter. It seems you would have to be truly fine with hermitization from the rest of the country. It would take an eternity to get anywhere.
We just bought a foreclosed farm in western Wisconsin. Else we would seriously consider your offer.

I assume its raw land? No buildings or nothing? No well, etc..?

goatlady · #20 05/16/12, 07:28 AM

NOT critisizing at all, Rick, just asking questions. I would not presume to volunteer suggestions on how you should handle your dream setup this early in the "game." If you are going to be THE basic final say on any development, I personaly would want to know your capabilities and detailed plans and expectations before committing myself and my funds. Written contracts are a good protection for all parties involved and sould show clearly with no misunderstanding what is expected, desired, and necessary. Only you know your aims and final goals and how you figure on getting there eventually. To build a "community" clear communication and understanding are an absolute necessity. The underlying meanings of what you say can be quite different than my interpretation of those same statements and those misinterpretations can be killers in any situation. Your example of your experience in buying that property in town with a group and everybody having a different idea of what to do and then you stating "have a rough plan and go from there" are in contradiction. If there IS no concrete plan set down and agreed upon at the beginning, any "rough" plan will NOT get the goals met when trying to work with a group of individuals. That IS my suggestion - work up a detailed plan that you can send to truely interested folks as they contact you.